A Message to the Dev's and Community Concerning "YogsDiscovery"

[Ty'Quantavius LeDarius]

Call it a rant, call it a public service announcement, call it whatever you want - but this topic requires attention.

A Quick Intro

First for anyone who is not aware, the YogsCast, and YouTube Channel that has several million subscribers has created a "partnership" with Space Engineers. This "partnership" will require the Devs to pay the YogsCast a monthly share of the sales revenue for the game.

What this essentially breaks down to is a large powerful YouTube Channel pressuring small indie developers into paying a monthly fee for the Yogscast to make "Lets Play's" of their game. To anyone with half a brain this is criminal. For a successful YouTube Channel like the Yogscast the additional revenue gained at the developers expense is unecessary. They have well over 7 million subscribers.

My question to the YogsCast is why is it necessary to take a portion of the sales for a game you didn't develope, thats been in developement long before you ever started any Lets Plays on it, and especially and Indie Game that requires all the money it can get to be successful and developed efficiently.

This is a greedy and ugly move for the YogsCast who feel they are entitled to some kind of payment for making a Lets Play. Clearly they do not enjoy their jobs and need compensation to make it worth their while, as if the YouTube partnership, ads, and twitch channels are not enough revenue to sustain themselves.

So What is YogsDiscovery?

YogsDiscovery is a partnership between the YogsCast and Indie game developers as mentioned above. According to the YogsCast it is a way to encourage members of the YogsCast to premier indie games on their channels. YogsDiscovery also negates "financial risk" ( a huge joke, I'll get to this soon) from showcasing games that may not have large viewer counts. For anyone who is not aware, YouTubers can generate revenue from large viewer counts on their videos they upload to YouTube. In addition, YogsDiscovery apparently also gives small companies and developers the ability to reach a large audience without losing any money (another complete joke).

In essence it is a way for developers to give a portion of sales revenue to their partners in return the partner shares the developers content.

Whats Wrong With Helping Out Small Devs?

You may be asking me, "Bringo, what is so bad about a big youtube channel wanting to help promote games and help out the small devs?"

Well my friends, it is because the method in which they are choosing to showcase these games is comepletely criminal and contradictory to what they claim in their information about YogsDiscovery.

1. YogsDiscovery claims that there is a financial risk to creating content that does not recieve ample views. First off lets be real here. There is absolutely no risk in recording a 30 minute video of a game, that supposedly you enjoy playing, to YouTube. To call this a financial risk simply shows that its not about the enjoyment of the game, its about playing anything regardless of if you like it or not in order to make views and recieve revenue.

To put this into perspective, the YogsCast does not have to stop playing one game, to play another game. There is no risk in adding games to their content of lets plays. For instance, theres no need to stop creating minecraft lets plays which run about 15 minutes in length in order to do space engineer content.

2. YogsDiscovery claims that through this program, small dev's have the ability to reach a large audience, and I qoute, "without any risk or loss of earnings.." (read the full letter here http://www.reddit.com/r/Yogscast/comments/2afpqz/an_open_letter_about_yogdiscovery/)

Okay so basically after telling us that Dev's pay a monthly fee for YogsCast to showcase their games, they go on to say that there is no risk or loss of earnings. Complete and blatant contradictory statement. It is a loss of earnings if you are giving a percentage of your sales revenue in order to keep a partnership.

Closing

So community, ask yourself this: is it okay for large YouTubers, such as the YogsCast, who make well over a sustainable salary for their lifestyle, to suck away money from developers in order to "promote and gain attention" for their game? Meaning the games growth will undoubtedly be stunted because another source is taking a percentage from the sales revenue in which the devs depend on to make a successful game.

Any humble YouTuber I'm sure would agree that the money these developers make off sales should be solely used to make a better game. Content creators on YouTube do not deserve the developers money for creating a Lets Play.

Developers need all the money they can get. They are essentially paying a source money in order to promote their game, when the promotion could be done for free with no cost. The YogsCast has had success in the past playing a variety of games WITHOUT requiring devs to pay them a portion of the sales, there is no doubt that their audience has taken a genuine interest in the games they play, and bought the same games to try them themselves. Tons of major YouTubers do this already unselfishly, and I hope that they continue to do so rather than stealing the money from Devs for a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reason like offering games to a bigger audience.

For as long as the YogsCast has been around, they have already been doing just that. There is nothing that makes them entitled to ask for money to continue to do promote games. They are supposed to do create content becasue they love games. Not because they want to find new ways to make money even if it means mooching off devs.

The community, and not just the space engineers community, needs to be made aware of the truths behind this and any other like this. We need to come together to support the devs, and not support these ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ schemes for YouTubers to make money off devs. To take that money from indie devs, is frankly disgusting.

[Jesus]

euh??
at the end its still the dev's choice wheter he pays these guys to advertise their game or not...
and what they do is none of your business either...
yogscast is not the only youtube channel that does let's play's ya know...
there are other tons of people that make those kind of vids for free...

but if the devs think paying a popular youtuber to show off their game is better. so be it... it's still the dev's choice...

[Bobblehead O Doom]

First off let me say this is very well written. You make a lot of good points but I do have an issue with it over all. What you are complaining against is advertising which is something most companies have to spend money on. Keen was in no way forced to make a deal with them and did so voluntarily because they feel this will prove beneficial to them by getting more sales. 80% (random number) profit from an extra 10,000 sales is a lot better than 100% on 0 extra sales. The fact that they have so many subscribers is what makes them attractive as an advertising partner. I have no personal opinion of Yogscast but it looks like all they are doing is making a sound business decision for themselves which Keen sees as also being beneficial to them.

As a person who has made some simple videos for youtube trust me in that good videos take a lot longer than just the time it takes to record. A 15 minute finished product may have started out as an hour of footage that needed to be edited down. Maybe multiple videos from several users need to get edited together which I saw them do quite a bit during their space engineers video. Intro and artwork all need to be created and added for good production value.

Honestly if you can become big enough on youtube to warrant companies paying you to advertise for them then more power to you.

[Jackal Red]

I'm not entirely sure why you are upset. If Keen did not want/had no use for what is basically an advertisement, then they would not have acquired their service. It's a win-win, as Keen gets more sales through increased public notice, and the Yogscast get a cut of these sales as payment for their service. If Keen did not benefit from this, they would not have allowed their service.

It's like paying for an ad. A site or channel gets paid for their service, and this service would benefit the organization that paid for the ad. It's not about "deserving" the money, it's not about being "unselfish", it's just about the money. Hosting a youtube channel and developing a game are both businesses, you have to expect them to act like businesses.

[Ty'Quantavius LeDarius]

I just want to bring to the front some points I think are very valid.

The main point here is many people from YouTube who create lets play's create them for free without asking for a cut from developer sales. They do it for fun, and promote the game maybe without even realizing it.

Originally posted by Cpt.a//:

euh??
at the end its still the dev's choice wheter he pays these guys to advertise their game or not...
and what they do is none of your business either...
yogscast is not the only youtube channel that does let's play's ya know...
there are other tons of people that make those kind of vids for free...

but if the devs think paying a popular youtuber to show off their game is better. so be it... it's still the dev's choice...

Why would the developer pay these guys when there are other channels who promote the game, and have been promoting the game long before the YogsCast?

I realize the YogsCast is not the only YouTube channel with lets plays, its 2014. You have basically confirmed my main point that yes there are tons of people that make those kinds of videos for free, so why does the YogsCast feel the need to benefit off from the developer sales? I am certaint they make more than enough to sustain their livelyhoods from the viewership on their channel. In addition, these other channels that create lets plays for the game do not get paid by the developer, yet they are still promoting the game.

It's just a way for the YogsCast to mooch off an indie game and mask it with the premise that THEY need to be the ones that promote the game and can offer the best promotion - for aprice of course, while other content creators on YouTube produce double maybe triple the space engineers content and don't recieve a penny from the dev's sales.

[rocket ant]

Originally posted by CrjjX:

It seems like you are misinformed on point 2. The devs do not pay a monthly fee. They pay a percentage of the extra sales generated by their videos. The devs keep all the money they would normally get. They only pay the percentage for sales above the normal amount. At least that is how I read it.

yogcast will take a percentage of revenue of all sales http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/220950/YouTubers_Yogscast_taking_revenue_share_to_promote_Space_Engineers.php
i extremly(!) dislike this, although i disagree with Bringo on some important points, the truth is i also dislike this situation a lot. but i think that the only crime that might be commited is when the poster of the video does not inform the viewers that they are being payed, or something like that.


"This also allows smaller companies - who lack the big marketing budgets that the larger publishers have - to reach larger audiences without any risk or loss of earnings," this got me angry, they re just business people, cut the- we just doing this to help- business its business, no crime but cut the shinning light of hope speech. you re business people, not beacons of hope. specially when the devs HAVE INDEED lost earnings! without any loss of earnings is a blatant lie.

[Ty'Quantavius LeDarius]

Well they do inform you, as they should. "This is a YogDiscovery game - so for the next week a small share of each sale will go to support the Yogscast!"

It's just so wrong. We don't need to support the YogsCast they are well off. The Dev's are the ones who need support and unfortunately they will not recieve the same support with the YogsCast taking a share of their sales.

I'm glad I bought this game before the YogsDiscovery was created.

[rocket ant]

Originally posted by Bringo:

Well they do inform you, as they should. "This is a YogDiscovery game - so for the next week a small share of each sale will go to support the Yogscast!"

It's just so wrong. We don't need to support the YogsCast they are well off. The Dev's are the ones who need support.

I'm glad I bought this game before the YogsDiscovery was created.

me too

[Bobblehead O Doom]

Originally posted by Bringo:

Why would the developer pay these guys when there are other channels who promote the game, and have been promoting the game long before the YogsCast?

The simple answer to this is more than 7 million subscribers. What makes Yogscast different from all the people who do them for free is purely the number of eyeballs that see their videos. Same reason why Super Bowl commercials are WAY more expensive than commercials that run during The Price is Right.

[Mike ={JcC}=]

Its seems like the world is changing slowly. Before the Let's players made videos of games, ans risk an law suit because of showing copyright content. Now they are getting so popular and strong, so the developers HAVE TO PAY THEM so that they show Let's plays for theyr games.
What happens if a developer say "no, i dont want to pay for it". So the Let's player either dont show content from this developer anymore, or the let's player start to talk bad about the developer or the game....
So i think the "content creators" (what a bad joke) on ypoutube are getting way too strong.
just my 5 cent

[Bobblehead O Doom]

So should the people that make commercials for Taco Bell not get paid since all they are doing is showcasing the product from another company? What Yogscast is doing is the DEFINITION of advertising. Keen is offering to give them a small share of sales in the hopes that Yogscast will bring them more copies sold than if Yogscast didn't do videos for them. In fact they absolutely deserve some of Keens money if they help bring in more business for Keen. That is the way business works.

[Mike ={JcC}=]

Originally posted by Bobblehead:

In fact they absolutely deserve some of Keens money if they help bring in more business for Keen.

They (YogsCast) make tons of money with theyr channel already... just because they are selfish, they now try to get new ways to make MORE and MORE money. Thats wrong in every fu*king way

[Bobblehead O Doom]

Originally posted by Mike ={JcC}=:

Its seems like the world is changing slowly. Before the Let's players made videos of games, ans risk an law suit because of showing copyright content. Now they are getting so popular and strong, so the developers HAVE TO PAY THEM so that they show Let's plays for theyr games.
What happens if a developer say "no, i dont want to pay for it". So the Let's player either dont show content from this developer anymore, or the let's player start to talk bad about the developer or the game....
So i think the "content creators" (what a bad joke) on ypoutube are getting way too strong.
just my 5 cent

If you have enough clout as a youtuber to affect a company in that way then you have succeeded in a business. Hell what do you think a movie reviewers job is? If Siskel and Ebert gave your movie a thumbs down then your movie might not make as much money.

[Mike ={JcC}=]

I think youtubers shouldnt be so powerful, because they are likely to be buyable... who pays more to them, gets the thumps up.... the big companies and devstudios will win this battle, and all thos small studios or dev teams will losse it. I thinks this is just the beginning, and it will get worse and worse...

[Bobblehead O Doom]

Originally posted by Mike ={JcC}=:

Originally posted by Bobblehead:

In fact they absolutely deserve some of Keens money if they help bring in more business for Keen.

They make tons of money with theyr channel already... just because they are selfish, they now try to get new ways to make MORE and MORE money. Thats wrong in every fu*king way

First off, your definition of "tons of money" is a bit out of whack. Live-able income is the goal of most big youtubers. What is so evil about a person wanting to make money off something they spend a lot of time and effort into. Are police officers are evil because they require a paycheck and an occasional raise? Basically you just said anyone doing anything for money are selfish.

[Mike ={JcC}=]

If you make money with filming yourself playing a game, you cannot compare that to a cop, risking his life every day out there... you are just kidding, dont you?