Merge Blocks with Pistons, Rotors and Hinges

[Anthony AyeDog]

In the past I've designed ships (expanding cockpits, mostly) that uses a Piston+Merge Block system to allow a ship with SubGrids to still be used by Projectors in their entirety.
Pistons still work perfectly. I can merge the main grid and the sub grid via Merges, then turn one off and retract the piston to separate the two.

I was hoping I could get a similar result with Hinges so I could make large swinging doors for a ship's hangar, but so far I'm not having any luck.

Has anyone been able to get Merge blocks to connect by using a Hinge block? If so, what's the trick to getting em to snap together?

[Jack Schitt]

Might not be possible if it was possible before because of how the most recent updates changed the collision boxes. This should have actually helped with doing such a thing but it may have done the opposite and caused it not to work anymore. After all merge blocks are square with pretty sharp edges. When a stationary hinge swings the sharp edges of a merge block will collide with what it's swinging toward. Doing such things would have to have rounded or angled edges on the merge blocks.

You may have to use a piston to pull the hinge and merge blocks away from each other so they're not colliding as the hinge swings then have the piston move the hinges and merge blocks toward each other causing them to merge.

[cptsavarus]

Originally posted by Jack Schitt:

... When a stationary hinge swings the sharp edges of a merge block will collide with what it's swinging toward. Doing such things would have to have rounded or angled edges on the merge blocks....

You could get around that by building the merge block with its face at 90 degrees to the hinge part, so it effectively merges sideways-on.

Not done any serious testing with hinges myself yet though, so can't say for sure whether the merge block trick works with them or not.
Will try it out when I get back from work later.

[Anthony AyeDog]

Originally posted by Jack Schitt:

Might not be possible if it was possible before because of how the most recent updates changed the collision boxes. This should have actually helped with doing such a thing but it may have done the opposite and caused it not to work anymore. After all merge blocks are square with pretty sharp edges. When a stationary hinge swings the sharp edges of a merge block will collide with what it's swinging toward. Doing such things would have to have rounded or angled edges on the merge blocks.

You may have to use a piston to pull the hinge and merge blocks away from each other so they're not colliding as the hinge swings then have the piston move the hinges and merge blocks toward each other causing them to merge.

The two blocks sit right on top of each other. If not for the fact that the blocks won't snap together, they look like they're already on the same grid. I'll try to get some workshop thing loaded with what I'm talking about.

That said, I didn't try it until after these collision updates, but I do think the updates did help with them being able to line up just based on similar stuff I'd done before, just not with merges.

Also, can't get things to lock into place with rotors either, even when things line up perfectly on screen

[Jack Schitt]

A screenshot will do. No need for the workshop unless you intend on sharing the save file of the world.

Originally posted by Anthony AyeDog:

I was hoping I could get a similar result with Hinges so I could make large swinging doors for a ship's hangar, but so far I'm not having any luck.

Why do you need merge blocks to make swinging doors with hinges? Any armor block can be placed directly on a hinge. Merge blocks aren't necessary for that.

And as I said, which seems to have been argued with, any square block placed on hinges (other than blast door blocks) collide when the hinges swing. They won't line up unless a piston or rotor is used to move them further apart so they can swing without colliding. It might be possible to mount the hinges on blast doors to create the space they need to swing but then they might not merge if everything else is anchored in place.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212042458

[Anthony AyeDog]

Originally posted by Jack Schitt:

A screenshot will do. No need for the workshop unless you intend on sharing the save file of the world.

Originally posted by Anthony AyeDog:

I was hoping I could get a similar result with Hinges so I could make large swinging doors for a ship's hangar, but so far I'm not having any luck.

Why do you need merge blocks to make swinging doors with hinges? Any armor block can be placed directly on a hinge. Merge blocks aren't necessary for that.

And as I said, which seems to have been argued with, any square block placed on hinges (other than blast door blocks) collide when the hinges swing. They won't line up unless a piston or rotor is used to move them further apart so they can swing without colliding. It might be possible to mount the hinges on blast doors to create the space they need to swing but then they might not merge if everything else is anchored in place.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212042458

If a large door is made with Hinges + Merge blocks and the door is merged whilst closed, the entire grid would be considered as 1 grid and thus easily loadable in a Projector.

I'll try a screenshot, though.

[Anthony AyeDog]

Originally posted by Jack Schitt:

A screenshot will do. No need for the workshop unless you intend on sharing the save file of the world.
nix

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212215936

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212215959



As for the other "why"

With a merge block (And especially the new collisions), it's possible to create large pressurized areas with large doors. So long as the connecting faces are airtight and don't merge to each other (like the .5x1 slopes, or 1x1 slopes), the area can be pressurized with pistons. It's now just a matter of getting Hinges to do the same.


Edit: Really fast setup with Pistons + what I was talking about earlier
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212230112
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212230149
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212230178

As the edges are airtight, it allows pressurization, but as they're also non-mergable, they don't become locked into the rest of the grid and it allows the merge blocks to separate and revert back to main grid and subgrid.

When the two are merged, though, the entire thing can be imported using a Projector block and made in Survival worlds without having to import the subgrid separately.

Second Edit: A setup like this would (and I've done it) allow an "extending" docking port system between a ship and a station or two stations or whatnot. It's a little irksome to set up, but when done properly looks and functions amazingly. I had one where the catwalks would like up, but one would be on the top and the other flipped and was one block space below it. Allowed seamless walking without force-merging each half.

Now, with a Hinge block I could, in theory, create a massive chunk of hull from the side of the ship and allow it to swing outwards, revealing a docking area or hangar, then when closed would be fully pressurized and without needing to worry about Clang getting upset or causing physics issues when flying in atmo.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Is this projector idea going to work though? Sure the grids there but thee hinge, when welded, i would expect to only connect to one side of the structure, say the main ship. Because as you create the head its a seperate grid, then welding the first door block will not form a connection. You would still have to mess around with merge blocks after to get the door connected to the hinge again :(

[Anthony AyeDog]

Originally posted by Karmaterrorᵁᴷ:

Is this projector idea going to work though? Sure the grids there but thee hinge, when welded, i would expect to only connect to one side of the structure, say the main ship. Because as you create the head its a seperate grid, then welding the first door block will not form a connection. You would still have to mess around with merge blocks after to get the door connected to the hinge again :(

It does work - done it several times.
I had a ship where the Cockpit was fixed to a Piston. In either position, whether pulled back into the ship or down into the main body, it was attached via Merges. It's only considered 2 separate grids for a few seconds while the pistons extend/retract.

The Merge blocks combines the head to the rest of the ship, which is then connected to the base of the (whatever the head is sitting on). It all becomes one grid. It's a bit weird to explain. If I can find the save file that has that cockpit system I can upload the blueprint, if you'd like.

[Jack Schitt]

Pressurize? Do you mean as in air tight? Placing or removing Oxygen into a room? Pistons do not do that. The only block that does that is an Air Vent.

I tested it again the way you're setting it up with a hinge dropping the merge block down on to another one. It worked and they merged for me.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212271924

Yes, the way I did it is one grid. The way you're doing it may or may not be a different grid and that might be the problem. Of course what you're trying to do needs the merge blocks to be on different grids.

Suggestions:
Settings - In the advanced world settings is the 'sub-grid' exploit turned on or off? Change it whatever it's set to. I believe (but didn't check) mine is on.
I also have experimental mode turned on.

Validate - Verify the game files. Maybe somethings wonky somewhere....it worked for me so it should for you.

[Anthony AyeDog]

@Jack you're using two Hinges.. and I'm not sure why?

I'm trying to merge 2 grids using 1 Hinge, connecting the primary grid (which has the gri'd base) to the subgrid (which is what is on the grid's head), per my picture. I'll check the Subgrid exploit on my next load-in, but it's worth a look.

Try the setup I used above and see if it works on your end (connecting the grid to the subgrid into a closed loop).

[Jack Schitt]

Originally posted by Anthony AyeDog:

@Jack you're using two Hinges.. and I'm not sure why?

I'm trying to merge 2 grids using 1 Hinge, connecting the primary grid (which has the gri'd base) to the subgrid (which is what is on the grid's head), per my picture. I'll check the Subgrid exploit on my next load-in, but it's worth a look.

Try the setup I used above and see if it works on your end (connecting the grid to the subgrid into a closed loop).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212787185

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212787204

They merged for a second then Lord Clang said "Nope! That's not happn'in!".

Clang might be avoidable by adjusting different hinge settings (speed, or strength/power/degree of angle limits)?

[Anthony AyeDog]

I'd say instead it was due to the Merge Block on the left originally being "station" and then being ship?

I haven't tried the test with any of it buried in the ground, I do most of my building in space.

Also, I have the base of the hinge as well as the merge block (that's not on the hinge) on the same grid, not separate like it looks like yours is.

[Psojed]

Hi fellow engineers. The subgrid on a hinge is a ship, otherwise it couldn't move. So when merging two grids, they both become a ship by default, because of the hinge.

So how do you hold ships in place? With a landing gear of course :)

Closing door
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212851019

Locked in
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212850897

Unlocked
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212850703

Opening
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212850608

PS:

Originally posted by Anthony AyeDog:

In the past I've designed ships (expanding cockpits, mostly) that uses a Piston+Merge Block system to allow a ship with SubGrids to still be used by Projectors in their entirety.
Pistons still work perfectly.

Can you show me how? Because it doesn't seem to work for me with piston on the current version.

If I try to merge the subgrid of a piston or hinge with the main grid where my piston/hinge is placed, the merge blocks stay yellow and don't lock in.

[Jack Schitt]

Originally posted by Anthony AyeDog:

I have the base of the hinge as well as the merge block (that's not on the hinge) on the same grid, not separate like it looks like yours is.

Then, back to one of my first questions: Why are you using merge blocks if they're already the same grid?

[Psojed]

He's trying to merge stuff on the hinge with everything else that's not on the hinge.

PS: he has actually shown you. Here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2212215959