Can atmo and ion thrusters get me from planet to space?

[Wowy]

So I stole a NPC ship, it use atmo and ion thrusters. I took apart every redundant thing, and I want to use it as a mothership, so I need to know if it can get into and back from space

[Dan2D3D]

Some good Engineers told me that they were able to by using only Atmos and Ions so it must be be doable tho I did not tried myself yet.

[Dan2D3D]

Do like I always do = Go new creative world and test different concepts till it works.

[Jel]

Works. I never use H2 engines for Transition.

[Dan2D3D]

Cool! Jel already tried, thanks for sharing

[Alakbar]

Originally posted by Wowy:

So I stole a NPC ship ...

LOL our hero

[Jel]

Published a quick example:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1693895278

or this one, a bit older but still effective:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1399185615


Try and see for yourself :)

[RoofCat]

It's like running with dumbbells. At some point you are strong enough to do that. And since SE launch is ridiculous easy, even ions can succeed if you add plenty. Though those thrusters might use a lot of space while not being able to lift a lot of payload. Low utility, high bs sort of.

Some numbers to get the idea, small grid -
small hydrogen thruster has 98.4kN
small ion thruster has 14.4kN

Which means you need 7 ion thrusters to do the job of a single hydrogen thruster. And 1.4MW power. And that will lift only up to 10t from surface. 10% more where atmospheric thrusters give up due to lower gravity at higher altitude. And that's it.

[Wowy]

Originally posted by RoofCat:

It's like running with dumbbells. At some point you are strong enough to do that. And since SE launch is ridiculous easy, even ions can succeed if you add plenty. Though those engines might use a lot of space while not being able to lift a lot of payload. Low utility, high bs sort of.

Some numbers to get the idea, small grid -
small hydrogen engine has 98.4kN
small ion engine has 14.4kN

Which means you need 7 ion engines to do the job of a single hydrogen engine. And 1.4MW power. And that will lift only up to 10t from surface. 10% more where atmospheric engines give up due to lower gravity at higher altitude. And that's it.

Good news that it has *poop* ton of small and large ion thrusters together with large atmospherics

[RoofCat]

Except the same number of hydrogen engines would lift extra 60t payload - ingots or building blocks. While Ions are more like proof of concept in a world that is as fake as it goes anyway.
I can do it... sure you can. But what's the point - do you transport heavy container or just trying to prove SE physics are lame which we already know :)

Just to give you some idea:
Real world Falcon heavy can get 4.5% of its launch mass to LEO.
In Kerbal space program you can get 15% (rockets)..50% (planes) of launch mass to LKO.
In SE you can get more than 90% of your launch mass to "orbit". You can even jetpack there.

The only thing that can't get to "space" in SE yet is rover driving up the hill really fast. And only because there are speed limits in SE :D

[Wowy]

Originally posted by RoofCat:

Except the same number of hydrogen engines would lift extra 60t payload - ingots or building blocks. While Ions are more like proof of concept in a world that is as fake as it goes anyway.
I can do it... sure you can. But what's the point - do you transport heavy container or just trying to prove SE physics are lame which we already know :)

Just to give you some idea:
Real world Falcon heavy can get 4.5% of its launch mass to LEO.
In Kerbal space program you can get 15% (rockets)..50% (planes) of launch mass to LKO.
In SE you can get more than 90% of your launch mass to "orbit". You can even jetpack there.

The only thing that can't get to "space" in SE yet is rover driving up the hill really fast. And only because there are speed limits in SE :D

Because redesigning all of the thruster bays, conveyor tubes and adding hydrogen production would be a huge pain in the ass, and I would be better off making a new ship

[Jel]

just remember that you need at least one hydrogen tank when using h2 engines effectively. Those are just too big for most of my designs, causing me to abandon the engine completely.
Plus no need to carry extra weight (ice) and more redundant fuel supply (uranium, batteries, solar).
As op seems to have solved his question already i´ll just leave it here. May the designs be ever in your favour :)

[RoofCat]

Originally posted by Jel:

just remember that you need at least one hydrogen tank when using h2 engines effectively. Those are just too big for most of my designs, causing me to abandon the engine completely.
Plus no need to carry extra weight (ice) and more redundant fuel supply (uranium, batteries, solar).
As op seems to have solved his question already i´ll just leave it here. May the designs be ever in your favour :)

it's just me calling thrusters engines all the time. I was talking about thrusters in fact. Edited.
Also you don't carry ice anywhere! You just convert it into fuel rather quickly and fly without extra mass. Because F=ma. Or a=F/m. a stands for acceleration, m for mass and F for force.
Double the mass with low energy density heavy ice and have half of your fuel wasted. Sure, why not :)

Often you don't add hydrogen power engine to designs. Because that engine is quite heavy (small grid) and almost useless for that. It does make sense on large ships though as once you mine too much ice in large containers, hydrogen engine can quickly turn it into electrical energy without having to throw anything away. Small ships don't need that as even few of the new small batteries can support them with enough power for days on hydrogen based setups. Charge at station, fly for days with low mass. H2 converter on the other hand is light for comparison in small grid (if you don't stack it with extra ice which you shouldn't as ice is everywhere to find), also rather useful on those long trips for extra refuelling. Just don't forget to turn it off when not using as it spends a lot of electricity even while not working (100kW, 500kW in large grid).

[BaneBlackGuard]

Originally posted by Jel:

just remember that you need at least one hydrogen tank when using h2 engines effectively. Those are just too big for most of my designs, causing me to abandon the engine completely.
Plus no need to carry extra weight (ice) and more redundant fuel supply (uranium, batteries, solar).
As op seems to have solved his question already i´ll just leave it here. May the designs be ever in your favour :)

you don't actually need a hydrogen tank. you just need to make sure you have enough o2h2 gens to produce hydrogen fast enough to produce what your thrusters are consuming. take your pick, a big hydrogen tank or many o2h2 gens. the "lightest" way to go is the hydrogen tank, but if you are willing to take on more mass to avoid the giant tank, you can do that.

[RoofCat]

Originally posted by Wowy:

Because redesigning all of the thruster bays, conveyor tubes and adding hydrogen production would be a huge pain in the ass, and I would be better off making a new ship

well in that case it is all about kN you have.

If your most powerful thrust direction (used for liftoff or up) has total thruster power in kN >10x your mass in tons (9.81 at sea level to be more accurate, less at higher altitudes), you will be able to lift off Earth like planet with whatever engines you have. If you have less, you won't. It's about that equation, not the exact tech used. Except for atmospheric engines working in thick air below 8km there only.
Someone using ions doesn't mean you will be able with your particular ship. You might have tons of heavy gyroscopes, batteries, gravity generators or decorative armor blocks. Depends. Just check your weight (which is mass times gravity btw) and compare to thrust. Which gives you thrust to weight ratio which should be above 1.0 on respective body to take off.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Personaly i find the atmo/ion hybrids great as exploration/scout ships. When you just want to take small ammounts of ore/parts. But if your looking at moving large cargo on and off planets hydro is defo the way to go :)