Is this type of DLC the right choice for space engineers?

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

WARNING wall'o'text alert :)

I remember several discussions here about possible future DLC. One of the running themes was that it would be a bad idea to do blocks as dlc because it would split the community. Well now thats a reality i want to see what people think.

>Lets look at the cons first....

-Splitting the community
This one is pretty obvious, before in the workshop there was modded or unmodded. Now theres vanilla, vanilla with dlc, vanilla with mods, vanilla with dlc and mods. This confuses things.

Anything that uses the dlc blocks is off limits to a certain group of players. Before you had access to everything.

-The gameplay
Not being able to grind the new blocks is a huge miss step. It means if i capture a ship i cant replace this or that nor grind it down for parts. This hurts immersion and fair play.

Also we cant share ships in MP if we dont own it, that hurts the coop experience

>OK so lets look at the positive points

-Support the devs
You like the game you want to show that and throw some money the devs way, cool :)

-New Blocks
We get some new blocks, cant moan there and they look good.

Now i want to look at a third topic though...
The pros for keen in offering blocks over other things.....

-Incentive to buy
New blocks is the most sweet carrot they could dangle for sales no doubt. Nothing else would get as much money and charging existing players instead of bumpming the base game price for a limited ammount of remaining customers isnt going to be half as lucrative.

-A world of ideas
The workshop has a plethora of ideas that the devs could draw from. This is equally as cool as it is scary. If they release a pack a month for a year thats now 12 packs. Packs people could own in different combos and sets. This will muddle the workshop so much and lead to dissapointment when browsing.

>So what am i saying?

Im saying that this is indeed the most lucrative option for keen, but may not be the best for the playerbase. I want this thread to be a place to think of other possible types of content they could push or other implimentations. Or to say you have no problem with it as is and feel there wouldnt be an impact on the workshop or the gameplay.

>My ideas...

OK so to round off heres some of my suggestions for things they could do.

-The arma approach
The arma approach to dlc is that anyone can see it, have it in there world ect, just cannot use it for any function. For example the tanks DLC

Other content

-More planets
This would still split the playerbase a bit but more at the server level. The workshop would still be everything for everyone (as i feel it always should be)

-Character skins
Man do i want that digi camo suit, but theres little to no chance of me getting it from drops or tokens. Offer me packs of skins that i can buy. You can make as many as you want in so many veriations its never ending.

-Armour Skins
Camo, dirty, clean, rusty, different textures, different bump maps

-Emotes
So many to choose from

-Missions and campains
No dividing the community. Limitless options.

I think items like this as DLC to fund free block updates would be much more beneficial to SE community. It keeps us all together on the same page, yet lets the devs get some funding. Personally id buy a tonne of skin packs just to say "yes this is DLC the right way".

So give me your thoughts on pros/cons, or other options avalible to the devs to make money. Id like to avoid the whole argument of devs need money vs devs money grabbing. This is ment for the purpose of discussing other options or implimentations :)

[Husky306]

I didn't check if I could grind these blocks or not, bought the DLC right away just to get it out of my head. XD I'll trust you with this and say that it makes things worse. And personally I just didn't like this way of forcing a buy. I literally met a pirate station with these blocks right after the update. So... can't ignore it, have to leave some blocks floating in space if you decide to grind the whole station down? That's lame.

I agree with everything. Keen need to make several ways for people to share money. Paid cosmetics that don't have a function, paid awesome and fun emotes (same as TF2). Have a donation box. Have some paid planets DLCs. Maybe have optional (disabled in world creation) ads in the game. Like randomly met huge ad boards near pirate stations. Most players will love to shoot and destroy these. But they still see them, right? =D

I have mixed feelings about this DLC. I'm fine with it if it gets us somewhere. If it helps Keen develop the game further. But then if they don't they'll get a worse reaction. Less forgiving community. It's a dangerous game they entered. I hope they know what they're doing.

One more way to make money would be to establish a trade in the game to let people build ships and stations and sell them for real money. A share for keen. Everyone wins. Dunno how would it work though, a ship once bought will be seen by anyone in MP. So it's either for SP or "someone buys - everyone uses it". But it would boost the interest for design. And adding more blocks in the future updates would make it even more lively. Not to mention a well paid blueprint would probably be amazing and will attract more people.

[Phade]

I think these blocks are fantastic. its a very cheap, inexpensive dlc with purely cosmetic blocks. Blocks that fulfill basically the same thing are avaliable free, so this is just moreso an option that people can use for more official creations without having people download a hundred mods just to get it working.

Plus, none of them are cruicial or required to use. I would've loved a shower/bath, but I understand that what we have now is pretty damn nice.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Originally posted by Phade:

I think these blocks are fantastic. its a very cheap, inexpensive dlc with purely cosmetic blocks.

I agree, but what do you think of the fact its blocks, things that split up the community. Do you think other options to facilitate free blocks would be better or is selling blocks good for the game in general?

Thats more the question im posing here, not about value or quality, just the impact selling packs of blocks could have on the game and its playerbase :)

PS im actually desperate to throw some doh at the SE team, but i dont know if i can support this way of doing it. Im still very much fenced about it and want to see what happens in the next couple months. But i figure now is the best time to try and point out potential problems while its still young..... and maybe open to change :)

[ASMR gaming]

as long as the dlc isnt a regular thing, and next time they tweak how they do it, the reaction this time round has been split and i dont think enough thought went into it. Then again its a popular game, perhaps in 12 months time this dlc could be made free, and every few months they could do a new dlc (that maybe valid for 12 months) that way those that dont buy in 12 months can get access to it in the base game, and keen can keep coming up with 2-3 dlc packs a year that will keep development going but not create a paradox developments style base game to 20 dlc gap of game options

[RoofCat]

TL;DR?

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Originally posted by RoofCat:

TL;DR?

Blocks break up the community and make a mess of the workshop and cause multiplayer issues. It seems like the worst possible choice of content to sell.

Arent there other options that can make keen money without creating that divide. Ways that facilitate the blocks themselfs being free.

See the post for some of the ideas from me for that purpose :)

[Troubleshooter]

Originally posted by Karmaterrorᵁᴷ:

Originally posted by RoofCat:

TL;DR?

Blocks break up the community and make a mess of the workshop and cause multiplayer issues. It seems like the worst possible choice of content to sell.

Arent there other options that can make keen money without creating that divide.

See the post for some of the ideas from me for that purpose :)

Pretty much this.

Even shorter answer : Is this type of DLC the right choice for space engineers?
No.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Good to know im not the only one feeling like that. Keep the oppinions coming guys even if you think blocks are a great way to sell dlc. All views are welcome :)

[RoofCat]

Originally posted by Karmaterrorᵁᴷ:

Originally posted by RoofCat:

TL;DR?

Blocks break up the community and make a mess of the workshop and cause multiplayer issues. It seems like the worst possible choice of content to sell.

Arent there other options that can make keen money without creating that divide. Ways that facilitate the blocks themselfs being free.

See the post for some of the ideas from me for that purpose :)

Thank you for the short version.
As for me I wouldn't spend money on SE again either way except they add something really impressive. Like realistic physics for engineering side, complete overhaul of resource scheme and life support for survival aspect, diagonal, round, multisized etc. blocks and connections for Lego side or visual IDE for code side. Like why do you need to manually code display for basic info in a game that already has control panel? Why can't you record macros?

Right now it is game worth 10..15EUR sold for that exact money. And this DLC didn't change any of that.

[Troubleshooter]

I've been meaning to post this somewhere, and I'm too far along on my monolith hunt to hang out on the threads posting this stuff, so here's the short-short versions of why this is really the wrong way to goose keen's cash flow.

This game runs on good will. Plain and simple. Most sand box games do. They make the basic game and throw it out to the community to make the content that people play. ARMA is a classic and probably best example. Bethesda relies heavily on the modding community just to make the game playable. This isn't news.

Its not even a bad business model. Where this goes wrong is when the dev looks at the "free" content floating around in the game and thinks that the community is ripe for picking... and they break the fundamental link in their business model, good will and common experience.

--------------------------------
If I say "remember when you built your first rocket to leave the earth like planet?" Do you? Did you ever? It is entirely possible I could say that to another SE player and they have NEVER done that? Its likely, but not a guarantee. However, go to the Darksouls forums and ask a player " remember the first time you went into the catacombs?" Everyone has been there, it was supremely memorable. We have a common frame of reference, so we can share our stories.

SE and games like it have so much to do, with so little direction, there is no guarantee that any 2 players will have done the same things. Now, take that fractured experience, and pay-wall a chunk of it. What sort of community do you have now?

Keen knows this. The launch trailer has the narrator asking " who welded the red ship" or something like that. Its a common point of reference for most of the community. Did you play the ez start platform... red ship is there right? Crashed ship on asteroid scenereio? Yep, lots of players have done that one too. Since lots of vets have seen or experienced this ship, we have a sense of common if un-shared stories relating to it.

Now, what if the red ship had paid DLC blocks. Now how many players were there to weld it up and take it out for a spin. Geez, it actually makes me sad to type that.

[raffa2]

Blocks DLC is the dumbest idea they could have come up with, this will hurt their image more than they will gain money from it.

I'm more angry from the fact those blocks are functional rather than just reskins, if it was just a resking of already existing blocks it would be fine, but it's the fact these blocks are functional new blocks that can be accessed by paying, this is what drives me mad.

The industrial cockpit, having an attachment from above opens a lot of possibilities in construction and making it a DLC is extremely unfair to those that bought the game.
Same applies with the lockers.
Everything else is just cosmetic stuff that should already be in the game anyways.

Also the game is out of early access but it's still not finished, it's a sandbox with nothing to do but build stuff rather than a game that gives you a challenge to use your builds with.

The correct way to make DLC is cosmetic reskins, and these blocks are not just cosmetic.

[Pembroke]

I don't think the "community split" is an issue. They are all decorative with no added functionality and In a multiplayer game that uses the DLC blocks you will still see them and have ships using them and other players can build them for you if you wish. You just can't build them *yourself* unless you have bought the pack. This kind of arrangement is quite common and definitely from the more "lenient" side in the scale how DLCs can be offered.

Thus, the only thing that could "force" you to buy it, is using workshop ships that use those blocks but I don't think this is any kind of forcing. It's no different, really, than a workshop item that requires some mod that you don't want to install, and so can't use that workshop item. No big deal there thus far so why would it be any different with this?

Also, let's face it, if Keen is to do further development to Space Engineers they must get *some* revenue from *somewhere*. Decorative, non-functional, optional blocks in a cheap DLC is about the most non-aggressive, courteous, and friendly way to do that I can think of.

I mean, $3.99? You pay double for a coffee...

[Little Sun]

They made a non-MMO game dependent on new payments. It's a regular payment for an item you already own.


In a networked game/game with a public workshop it's also a segregation based on how much you pay to be fully "accepted". You have no DLC and the WS stuff uses it? You're out. Your friends and your favorite servers now need DLC? You're out again. You're out because you don't want / cannot pay more for a product you've already paid enough for.


Noone, i think, will be allowed to join a server with a DLC without buying a copy of a DLC. The workshop creations are now simply taken as DLC hostages. It's unacceptable.

[AlCool]

I believe Keen has gone about it the wrong way. The DLC should not have blocks in it at all unless they were either wholly cosmetic (so they can't have any impact on gameplay, cooperation, and multiplayer in general) or mission/scenario/challenge packs that do not at all affect the base game, gameplay, and community.

There are so many options:
-unique looking armour blocks and colours available
-special skins/models for pre-existing blocks, more costumes (especially costumes that actually change the player model and not just the texture)
-emotes
-Mission/scenario/challenge packs to give players something to check out outside of the base game and survival/sandbox gameplay. This could have special rules/gameplay that could range from short to very long playtimes to complete.

The current pack would have been infinitely better if they were ALL-non functional/cosmetic (which includes stuff you can sit on as well as the projector since they have no effect at all on gameplay. The bed is arguable).
The cockpit negatively affects online multiplayer gameplay, as does the storage devices like the armoury. These blocks will be a constant nuisance for players that don't own the DLC who will be unable to freely download mods and blueprints from the workshop, who won't be able to get into their friends ships fancy new cockpit, who can't access the tool storage on their favourite servers hub station.

Keen needs to rethink this.

[emperror]

Keen took a survey some time ago and aparrently this was the outcome.