Survival med bay exploit....

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

So in survival you choose which of your medbays you spawn at, this can be exploited for fast travel. Suicide pick earth base, suicide pick mars base ect.

Heres a simple idea to fix it...

Only your closest med bay shows up in the spawn list.

Now you cant jump around and have to at least get halfway there :)

What you guys think?

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Nobody else thinks this is issue?

[Jel]

Well death-travel has been a thing since they implemented MP. A survivalist (this word really exists?) decides not to use it. Simple :)
Same thing as the admin of a survival server choses not to use creative tools.
It´s all yours.

[valrawk]

Considering this "exploit" is actually Suggested in one of the Tips shown durring the loading screens on worlds/servers... I'm pretty sure this is an Intended feature.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Isnt that like saying "its broke, but dont fix it" haha

Its all well and good to say just dont use it, but it remains a fundimental flaw that can be exploited to a big advantage in PvP, and we all know in PvP some people will use whatever exploits they can find. Policing it would be a nightmare on a busy server but with this simple option it could be a thing of the past :D

[MekaDovah]

I thought in PvP you can only spawn at med bays you or your faction owns and thus it's a good idea for your faction to build as many as you can in good spots for fast travel while destroying as many of the enemy's as possible to deny them the same.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

I thought in PvP you can only spawn at med bays you or your faction owns and thus it's a good idea for your faction to build as many as you can in good spots for fast travel while destroying as many of the enemy's as possible to deny them the same.

Yeah thats exactly how people are using it and its defeating the point of a ship with enough seats and a jump drive fro travel. Those things are only needed when moving cargo.

For example if the shout goes out that your factions mars base is under attack, the meta is dump everthing in cargo box, suicide and respawn at mars base. IMo thats cheap and nasty, it circumvents the whole having to have a ship to get there.

It should be, get the shout mars base is under attack, everyone has to get to a JD capable ship, jump in and then drop pod down to counter attack. How much more immersive and epic does that sound ;)

Another example that iv experienced is, i attack a ship in orbit after i saw the shuttle go down to the planet. Now instead of having to fly back up to his ship the guy suicided, respawned on the ship and jumped away....not a great ending to a 2 hour manhunt :(

[MekaDovah]

Originally posted by Karmaterrorᵁᴷ:

Yeah thats exactly how people are using it and its defeating the point of a ship with enough seats and a jump drive fro travel. Those things are only needed when moving cargo.

For example if the shout goes out that your factions mars base is under attack, the meta is dump everthing in cargo box, suicide and respawn at mars base. IMo thats cheap and nasty, it circumvents the whole having to have a ship to get there.

It should be, get the shout mars base is under attack, everyone has to get to a JD capable ship, jump in and then drop pod down to counter attack. How much more immersive and epic does that sound ;)

Well, I admit I don't have a good grasp of SE pvp specifically having never done it (I swore off pvp in all games years ago.)

But I would speculate that in your scenario, there's a very high chance the attacked base will be destroyed before people can hop on their ships and get to Mars in time. Especially if they're at another planet. This is even if they can do it in one jump.

Personally, I would find that discouraging to the point of just never having more than one base because what's the point of having assets you can't defend? It may also become boring because if no one bothers to defend their bases, what are the attackers doing other than just blowing up or sabotaging basically unmanned pirate bases? You'd be less likely to run into other players it'd sound like, which defeats the entire point of pvp.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I suppose one way to find out is if you could arrange pvp with at least the house rule about Med Bays (like no spawning except at admin only medbays or something) to test it out?

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

But I would speculate that in your scenario, there's a very high chance the attacked base will be destroyed before people can hop on their ships and get to Mars in time. Especially if they're at another planet. This is even if they can do it in one jump.

What would the net result be though to pvp meta. The need for a fast response transport ship to respond quickly to attacks. It puts emphasis on engineering a good solution, not slamming a block down and be done with it.

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

Personally, I would find that discouraging to the point of just never having more than one base because what's the point of having assets you can't defend? It may also become boring because if no one bothers to defend their bases, what are the attackers doing other than just blowing up or sabotaging basically unmanned pirate bases? You'd be less likely to run into other players it'd sound like, which defeats the entire point of pvp.

You can defend them! You just have to physicly get in a a ship and go there to doit. It wouldnt even take long to do, would just give a 10 min buffer from the origonal attack to them getting renforced. As apposed to 30 seconds after you attack the entire faction spawns at that base with magi-med bay travel.

If your not in a faction with people at each base you wouldnt know it was under attack anyway, thats a problem when soloing a pvp world. You just dont know if its being attacked or not so its just as vunerable as normal. If your within visual range to know then its not gonna take long to fly there.

PvP dosent mean crazy firefights every 2 mins, look at a game like arma 3 where you can go hours without seeing another player then have a 30 seond intense engagement. But just as im sugesting here to get back to the battlefield you have to go by heli or car. You cant just warp there instantly.

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I suppose one way to find out is if you could arrange pvp with at least the house rule about Med Bays (like no spawning except at admin only medbays or something) to test it out?

I dunno if it could be simulated like that. It needs to only show your closest owned med bay to your death location ;)

[M.Red]

i dont think that is an exploit. if you die and spawn somewhere else the stuff you have in your inventory is lost.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Originally posted by M.Red:

i dont think that is an exploit. if you die and spawn somewhere else the stuff you have in your inventory is lost.

Not about your inventory dude.

3 faction memebers defend mars base

Our faction attacks with our 3 members

That factions mebers all over the server fast travel there and jump in a fighter.

Now instead of 3v3 its maybe 7v3....within 30 seconds of the attack.

Thats...

Immersion breaking
Unfair/unbalanced PvP

Now if we had the few mins buffer of them having to travel there themselfs its a proper fair 3v3 fight and we can withdraw as we see the renforcements arrive.

In short its about troop deplyment and numbers in a pvp fight. Currently its way to easy for a big faction to all get to one place within seconds ;)

[ShadedMJ]

While I think I support the concept (not having played MP)....

I'd get to a terminal, and send off an inter-grid communication command to all bases to shut off all med bays for 2 minutes except for mars, die, and then mars is the only working medbay to spawn at.

Maybe a med bay "load screen" dependent on the distance between death location and chosen respawn medbay location.

Edit: Sniped

[MekaDovah]

PvP might not mean firefights every few minutes, but you can go hours with no action, why bother? We all have to sleep sometime and not all of us can afford marathon play sessions. This problem gets worse by enormous leaps the more people you add.

The problem with any ship, quick responder or not, is it takes longer. If you want to bring an adequate defense force, you have to take the transport ship anyway because you can't bring war material with you via medbay suicide. You have to depend on local assets and if what you have on hand is poor, all the quick travel in the world won't make a difference. If it takes you ten minutes to respond, the attack force could be done by then and just leave, at which point you've traded the defender's advantage for an overwhelming attacker's advantage.

I'm really just not seeing how quick travel really provides much advantage to the defender. Especially if the attacking force is utilizing its abilities and assets wisely. If it's just a storm of bricks charging straight in recklessly, I fail to see why it's the defenders who should be punished and forced to play smarter while the attackers don't.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Originally posted by ShadedMJ:

While I think I support the concept (not having played MP)....

I'd get to a terminal, and send off an inter-grid communication command to all bases to shut off all med bays for 2 minutes except for mars, die, and then mars is the only working medbay to spawn at.

Maybe a med bay "load screen" dependent on the distance between death location and chosen respawn medbay location.

Make it brutal....if you closest med bay is out of power you need to take a lander again :P

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

I'm really just not seeing how quick travel really provides much advantage to the defender.

Every faction member on site in 30 seconds is a massssssssive advantage....trust me lol

Yes yopu cant take mats with you but if you have a med bay there your already established. A lot of teams do this, a few bases with a few small strike craft. They rapifly respond by teleporting and jumping into the waiting craft. All the while there big bad ship is doing it properly jumping in. I just think everyone should have to jump there properly otherwise any sort of planned attack based on player numbers is utterly pointless lol

[M.Red]

Originally posted by Karmaterrorᵁᴷ:

Originally posted by M.Red:

i dont think that is an exploit. if you die and spawn somewhere else the stuff you have in your inventory is lost.

Not about your inventory dude.

3 faction memebers defend mars base

Our faction attacks with our 3 members

That factions mebers all over the server fast travel there and jump in a fighter.

Now instead of 3v3 its maybe 7v3....within 30 seconds of the attack.

Thats...

Immersion breaking
Unfair/unbalanced PvP

Now if we had the few mins buffer of them having to travel there themselfs its a proper fair 3v3 fight and we can withdraw as we see the renforcements arrive.

In short its about troop deplyment and numbers in a pvp fight. Currently its way to easy for a big faction to all get to one place within seconds ;)

Allright - that is indeed a problem
For Singleplayer: i always stick to my ship (if possible)
For Multiplayer: This needs to be solved

[MekaDovah]

Originally posted by Karmaterrorᵁᴷ:

Every faction member on site in 30 seconds is a massssssssive advantage....trust me lol

Yes yopu cant take mats with you but if you have a med bay there your already established. A lot of teams do this, a few bases with a few small strike craft. They rapifly respond by teleporting and jumping into the waiting craft. All the while there big bad ship is doing it properly jumping in. I just think everyone should have to jump there properly otherwise any sort of planned attack based on player numbers is utterly pointless lol

What if you attacked the base with a small strike team? Get in unawares instead of a big bad ship? Or what if the big bad ship had overwhelming force compared to what the base has to defend itself with? Sure, Defense Team beams in with 20 guys, but if they only have 4 fighters on site that's 16 guys stuck on the ground. If the attacking team brought in a carrier with 8 fighters and enough people to fly them then the attackers have the numerical advantage while the defense team has to hurry and build more, assuming they even have the resources available on hand.

And what if you did both tactics? Lure in the defense faction with a large scale air to surface assault, but while they're off doing that, a ground strike force deployed earlier moves in. Or flip that around: ground strike force sneaks in and sabotages the med bay or power generator in advance. Now the defense team can't fast travel in anyway, but it remains part of the game as tactics.

A base might be "established" but all it really takes is a platform with a medbay and a reactor or battery. That's not much.