Realistic Modifiers

[casualsailor]

I'm going to try to make a case for using realistic inventory, refining and assembler modifiers.

I know when you are first learning survival that setting inventory to 10x and processing to max is convinent. And I would still recommend that you do so while learning survival basics.

But after you've got a basics down, I would recommend that you start a new map with all realistic settings.

1) Doing so forces you to start build small ship versions of welders/grinders. When you can only carry 1 gravity generator component or enough steel plate to make only 4 large light steel blocks it is simply not practical to build things by hand. But you can still carry 50 steel plates, 40 interior plates and a few construction components and this is enough to layout a good skeleton of a structure before having to refil your inventory.

2) Waiting for ore to process and components to build may sound counter productive, but it really isn't. It forces you to plan what you're building, start processing the ore that you need while retrieving the ore that you will need next. I honestly never just sit around waiting for processing. By the time I retrieve a load of ore, I have components to build with and when they run short its time to fetch more ore. I'm never idle.

3) It forces you to build up from the least sophisticated to the more complex in a way that is truly realistic for someone dropped into the situation with minimal supplies and production capability. A simple small ship welder/grinder built from your Respawn Ship lets you tear it down and build a basic base. This in turn permits you to build a small miner. This in turn permits you to increase your production and build a "real" welder/grinder and miner (small ship) which in turn permits you to start building large ship versions. Once you have a 9 drill large miner, 3 each welder/grinder you're well on your way to building eveything you want.

4) Efficiency is rewarded. I use merge blocks and connectors to build a welder power head, a grinder power head and a miner power head. Then I build a single tug that can merge with each depending upon the job.

5) It forces you to learn how to do thing most efficiently. Instead of building 10000 steel plates (which you won't have the ore) instead you must shut off your assemblers, queue up the blocks you need, subtract the componets you have then prioritize them so everything keeps running while you are gathering the resources you actually will need.

I've played this game for a long time, and for me Realistic modifiers is the only way to play. And as a plus if you do every play on a server they will often only use 2x inventory and knowing how to do the things I describe can really make the difference.

Feel free to argue my points if you like. I won't be offended. It's all a matter of opinion.

[Tom7i]

As another "full realistic" player, i'll give you a +1 on all of this.

I've recently had someone tell me (on the EGS forum) that all realistic does is drag out the time it takes to build and do stuff, but as you nicely explained, that's not nearly all there is to it.

Originally posted by casualsailor:

1) Doing so forces you to start build small ship versions of welders/grinders. When you can only carry 1 gravity generator component or enough steel plate to make only 4 large light steel blocks it is simply not practical to build things by hand.

One of the first problems the player has to deal with in realistic. If you wanna build anything large, you first need to build at least a small work and mining ship to get all the necessary stuff together. I like it becouse it forces me to take it step by step and build things i could & would probably skip and never use on more forgiving settings, and by doing so learn new stuff i wouldn't have learned otherwise.

Originally posted by casualsailor:

2) Waiting for ore to process and components to build may sound counter productive, but it really isn't. It forces you to plan what you're building, start processing the ore that you need while retrieving the ore that you will need next.

Another good point; besides that, it kinda boosts the necesssity and value of building multiple refineries and assemblers in order to get things done faster. One of my most useful projects so far was building a factory with 8 refineries connected to 4 assemblers (2 refineries per one assembler) and all of them decked out with various booster modules; it really makes a difference when i come back from a mining trip with 300k of platinum ;)

Originally posted by casualsailor:

3) It forces you to build up from the least sophisticated to the more complex in a way that is truly realistic for someone dropped into the situation with minimal supplies and production capability. A simple small ship welder/grinder built from your Respawn Ship lets you tear it down and build a basic base. This in turn permits you to build a small miner. This in turn permits you to increase your production and build a "real" welder/grinder and miner (small ship) which in turn permits you to start building large ship versions. Once you have a 9 drill large miner, 3 each welder/grinder you're well on your way to building eveything you want.

Bam, exactly^^ I find it really cool to look back at my progress from time to time, like sitting in my new moon base, and think "all of this started with the basic lander and took a sh*tload of work, but it was all worth it "

Originally posted by casualsailor:

4) Efficiency is rewarded. I use merge blocks and connectors to build a welder power head, a grinder power head and a miner power head. Then I build a single tug that can merge with each depending upon the job.

Yep, got one like that too :)

Originally posted by casualsailor:

5) It forces you to learn how to do thing most efficiently. Instead of building 10000 steel plates (which you won't have the ore) instead you must shut off your assemblers, queue up the blocks you need, subtract the componets you have then prioritize them so everything keeps running while you are gathering the resources you actually will need.

Well, here's where we do things a bit differently it seems. I've grown accustomed to do a mandatory "drilling day" once every week or so, during which i only mine ores and amass a large load of them in my factory, refine them and keep them stored; with those in storage i can then pretty much build even 10k steel plates if i'd need them. My usual benchmark is when the iron falls under 5k, then it's time for the next drilling day :)

I'd just another point to your list: building mining, work & cargo ships in realistic settings is also helpful with gauging how many thrusters & reactors the vehicle actually needs to work well; i've just recently started to think that my ships on the workshop probably won't behave as good on more forgiving settings becouse the extra cargo space & weight will be too much for the existing number of thrusters and reactors, which is something to keep in mind when changing the settings on an existing game.

To be honest, realistic settings aren't for everyone. If i'd ever play SE with one of my friends, i'd leave it on the default settings becouse i wouldn't want them to become turned off by the amount of time, work and grinding that it takes to build big projects. I for one enjoy it becouse of the reasons you already mentioned, but i'm pretty sure the majority of people wouldn't... But in any case, i'd also recommend to at least try it at some point, so you can see how much of a difference certain things make on realistic (like extra refineries & assemblers for instance). Cheers!

[Marc Cassin]

100% agree :)

The few times I tried to play with x10 setting, it bored me so quickly... Doing all x1 is the way to go for me, other settings... just don't make sense : you don't need to build ships, as you could do all by hand faster. Better play creative.

Plus, some of the settings are useless : refinery speed ? Build more refineries. Assembler speed ? With prod modules they build each component faster enough. And you still can build more assemblers too ^^ Welding speed / grinding speed ? Build better tools ! In a matter of facts, the Elite Grinder is so efficient you often attack the block behind the one you grind before realising it ^^

Inventory size, well, I admit this can be a real pain in the exhaust, at the begining. But hey, it always bugged me to see videos of huge ships with a bunch of small containers for storage. Or see people carrying on them more stuff that I have in my small welder :D

For me it's just part of the game to have a hard start and after some hours can appreciate the work did. And be proud of it :)

[casualsailor]

@Tom7i Thx m8! I like your idea of a mining day. When I wrote that "you won't have the ore" I was thinking about during the build up phase but you bring up an interesting point too. The game rewards your efficiency by having enough production capability to match your mining capability.

And you learn this only by doing. When a single refinery (and an arc furnace) can process all the ore your little miner can collect in short order you don't need another. But as soon as processing becomes a bottleneck its time to expand. Jumping from the capacity of a small ship medium cargo miner to a large ship (single) large cargo one is huge and triggers that first big expansion requirement.

I often recycle my small ship miners, but I always keep the small ship ship welder / grinder. Often I can fly it down the halls of my station to weld or grind stuff more efficiently than chewing big holes in my walls just to get to things.

@Marc Casin You're right. And the 10x inventory changes your designs. I don't try to build tunnelers for space mining anymore because my cargo is full before I get very deep.

I often start by converting the Yellow Respawn ship in to a simple flying refinery with 3 drills hung out on a 5 conveyor post. I do this to gather just enough of each ore to start processing and to be able to make an ore detector and storage. When you only have a small cargo box you fill it before you've sunk your drills into a vein. And in fact you must be careful not to over do it or you could find yourself waiting for processing due to no storage capacity (and no processed Ni to make more). And you can't just make much more until you have the platinum to make more thrusters or you're a flying pig.

It really does alter your approach to the game in a rewarding way.

--

I'm currently working on designs that I can break apart and move around using a tug such that instead of grinding down and welding back up a refinery that I want to move rather I merge it with my tug and detach it from the station and then merge it back where I want to place it.

The more I work with this idea of plug-n-play units the more I like it. It is convinent that 400L is sufficient to carry all the components for a Merge Block. And it gives my little grinder ship a new job carefully cutting the unit away and welding it back.


Thanks for the responses guys.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Yup im a 1x1x1 player aswell, when i do play survival. Even then though i find after a weeks play im sorted for power and ships, then i loose interest. I want more needs to make it more brutal, make the planning phase of a space voyage tricky, and give us reasons to go back and forth between planets.

It defo inspires practical builds, when you cant get you components faster than your building. Also as you say the need for small utility ships increases a lot. My current survival game i made a wreck of one of my ships and placed it on the planet. The first thing i needed was a little grinder drone to break it down. Then i needed a little scout to go find ore and finally my drilling ship. It was a nice change from having to build the driller first :)

[lPaladinl]

Before the new tools, I found building ships, even fair-sized small frame ships, to take far too long between not being able to carry very many items and the welding speeds being quite slow. With the new tools, it gives you something to work towards to make building by hand easier.

All I really want more than realistic is the player inventory, but to this day I am confused as to why they tied in the player inventory ratio with the cargo crate ratios. I wanted more player inventory, but then it throws off the balance of the rest of the game, because suddenly you can carry way too much stuff in cargo containers. It also does not gel well with the new physics taking mass of your inventory into account now.

I also don't care for the assembly and refinery speed modifiers.

[casualsailor]

@IPaladini

Yeah, I never liked their solution to the mass to thrust issue with the modifiers. But I remember when they first made the change and their own starter miner would get stuck due to being too massive to move.

But I'm ok with the limited carry weight. Every game astonishes me that I can carry 6 miniguns, a rocket launcher and portable nuke (plus 10,000 rounds of ammunition). I sort like the idea of a more realistic carry weight.

And assembler / refinery modifiers should have been removed when they introduced the upgrade modules.

@Karmaterrorᵁᴷ

I sympatize with you. I too tend to start a world play it until I'm thriving and then start over again. Survival doesn't provide much endgame, yet.

[Tajin]

Agreed and I also really like playing first person only so you actually have to rely on well placed cameras for maneuvering.


However, I usually increase the welding and grinding speed as that really just slows me down without otherwise affecting my playstyle.


ps.: The endgame is to automate/optimize stuff that doesn't need to be automated or optimized. :D

[Anrock]

Heh. I'm playing survival, on 1x1x1, on planets. Since first day i've bought the game. I'm tougher than ya! :D

On a serious side: yeah, it's the only way to play. Otherwise it's too shallow to keep interest.

[deejK]

is this considered necro? Idk, I consider myself rather new to the game still and I didn't really put much thought into the modifiers: sometimes they'd be set high and sometimes in the middle, usually never low. I haven't played since early last year, only revisiting the game within the last few days... my games often didn't make it past my first mining vessel. having read some of the theories here, I do believe the massive inventory and increased speeds altered my gameplay and planning in negative ways.

in my opinion, insofar as Inventory Size/Assembler Efficiency/Refinery Speed multipliers--having the max be 10x suggests that the opposite end, Realistic, is going to be very slow. I think this is why the option never appealed to me!