Do Lamborghini's really have that much understeer?

[gyrotim]

I've driven just about all the cars in this game but the Lamborghini's by far have the most understeer next to let's say the Ford Mustang. The only one that handles corners well is the Sesto Elemento. Do Lamborghini's really have handling that bad irl?

[Sassanid]

What control device are you using?

[ling.speed]

Are they thou?

90% cases of "understeer" are down driver demanding the impossible from the car.
They are street cars with way too much power, mid engine, driven at unrealistic levels of grip (the more grip the more understeer). Sesto is a track toy set up for laptimes.

AC tyre model isnt perfect and does exaggerate balance at times, but its within reason. Many of the supercars were driven on track by the dev, so while its not always 1:1 the general feel int far off.

The problem is that IRL you'd never drive/push the lambos the same way you do in sims (mostly because of physical feedback naturally removing driving mistakes leading to understeer) so they'd not feel as bad.

Also if you ovesteer a mustang IRL its called fun time, if you oversteer a mid engine monster its called, 1million write off. So by default they are made to be "safer". And then let some advanced electronics that are often not simulated loosen them a bit till they detect driver went too far. We get the cars here as raw as they can be.
Only recently when manufacturers got enough trust in electronics we see the reverse trend where cars are built oversteery (like sesto) and then electronics tame them back. Most of the stuff we have in AC is relatively old in this respect. The Hurracan is almost decade old already.


ps: as Fret asks, it might be down to the way you steer. You should never need more than 90degrees of steering input unless its a hairpin. If a car trully turns better with even more steering THATS understeer. For lambos you usually just need to use pedals better.

[gyrotim]

Originally posted by ling.speed:

Are they thou?

90% cases of "understeer" are down driver demanding the impossible from the car.
They are street cars with way too much power, mid engine, driven at unrealistic levels of grip (the more grip the more understeer). Sesto is a track toy set up for laptimes.

AC tyre model isnt perfect and does exaggerate balance at times, but its within reason. Many of the supercars were driven on track by the dev, so while its not always 1:1 the general feel int far off.

The problem is that IRL you'd never drive/push the lambos the same way you do in sims (mostly because of physical feedback naturally removing driving mistakes leading to understeer) so they'd not feel as bad.

Also if you ovesteer a mustang IRL its called fun time, if you oversteer a mid engine monster its called, 1million write off. So by default they are made to be "safer". And then let some advanced electronics that are often not simulated loosen them a bit till they detect driver went too far. We get the cars here as raw as they can be.
Only recently when manufacturers got enough trust in electronics we see the reverse trend where cars are built oversteery (like sesto) and then electronics tame them back. Most of the stuff we have in AC is relatively old in this respect. The Hurracan is almost decade old already.


ps: as Fret asks, it might be down to the way you steer. You should never need more than 90degrees of steering input unless its a hairpin. If a car trully turns better with even more steering THATS understeer. For lambos you usually just need to use pedals better.

I saw the Nurburgring lap record video of the Aventador and the driver really had to fight the car to turn into the corners. The I watched a video of the Pagani Zonda doing a lap record and the driver rarely had to jerk the wheel to get it into corners. I agree that it's a matter of technique but to a driving noob like me I gotta say I prefer Assetto cars that have more oversteer like Ferraris and BMW M3's.

[ling.speed]

You said yourself... "Nurburgring lap record video" , "Pagani Zonda doing a lap record" These cars are prepared to do the records. Not the same deal as the road going stuff. How much prepared varies a lot... these days a lot of it is in the software. Also tyres can transform a car (but we have those in game too).

Just looked again at the Aventador onboard... the driver has more understeer than you have in AC lol, look at the steering angles. Hes pushing 90+degrees often, in AC you barely need like 70degrees at best, and thats on default setup. If you tinker with just basics that is not even really counted as "modifying" the car its gonna drive like the Sesto

The issue is that mid engine is quite tricky to drive right in simulations. While IRL its the easiest to drive fast ... all the lotuses/porshes, have "legendary" handling because how natural and quick is to reach the limit on mid/rear engined car. Mid engine is just plain faster than front, so it feels better. Same with pointyness, mid engine rotates faster initailly, feeling snapier/better. But ultimate cornering performance still depends on just how much rubber is touching the ground vs the car mass.

In sim however we dont get the same physical feedback, same comparisons, it all looks similar on flat screen... especially when we are used to GT3 cars performance already.
Worse those other cars give us expectation that we can take corners at higher speeds, and use the pedals harder. But for those overpowered monsters like lambos, with not enough downforce, you just have to slow down more than "usual". Which creates the feeling of bad handling.

So its just that in sims we have our comparisons turned upside down. We overdrive the these cars because it feels correct to do it (hence understeer). IRL that feeling is reversed, it feels like the car is doing the impossible.

[gyrotim]

Originally posted by ling.speed:

You said yourself... "Nurburgring lap record video" , "Pagani Zonda doing a lap record" These cars are prepared to do the records. Not the same deal as the road going stuff. How much prepared varies a lot... these days a lot of it is in the software. Also tyres can transform a car (but we have those in game too).

Just looked again at the Aventador onboard... the driver has more understeer than you have in AC lol, look at the steering angles. Hes pushing 90+degrees often, in AC you barely need like 70degrees at best, and thats on default setup. If you tinker with just basics that is not even really counted as "modifying" the car its gonna drive like the Sesto :reimu1:

The issue is that mid engine is quite tricky to drive right in simulations. While IRL its the easiest to drive fast ... all the lotuses/porshes, have "legendary" handling because how natural and quick is to reach the limit on mid/rear engined car. Mid engine is just plain faster than front, so it feels better. Same with pointyness, mid engine rotates faster initailly, feeling snapier/better. But ultimate cornering performance still depends on just how much rubber is touching the ground vs the car mass.

In sim however we dont get the same physical feedback, same comparisons, it all looks similar on flat screen... especially when we are used to GT3 cars performance already.
Worse those other cars give us expectation that we can take corners at higher speeds, and use the pedals harder. But for those overpowered monsters like lambos, with not enough downforce, you just have to slow down more than "usual". Which creates the feeling of bad handling.

So its just that in sims we have our comparisons turned upside down. We overdrive the these cars because it feels correct to do it (hence understeer). IRL that feeling is reversed, it feels like the car is doing the impossible.

The argument regarding sense of speed is quite relevant i'd say, a slower car can feel faster around corners because it can better manage its own power. I find sports cars are a good place to start personally. But because of the lack of sensation you get in sim racing when compared to real life I can't help but feel like it'd be easier to get better at driving these same cars irl like you said.

[clairvoyantwolf]

I have never driven a Lambo in real life, but I read a few years ago that they were forced to make the handling of their cars "safer" due to the large numbers of new buyers from the Chinese market. Take of that what you will.

Keep in mind that you rarely see exotics on real life race tracks. I've personally seen a McLaren 720s (that then wrecked and was totaled). And a Lambo Super Trofeo driven by a guy that also had a 911 GT2 RS. Facts of the matter are that if someone is serious about going fast they'll buy a Radical or something like that and blow everyone's doors off for a fraction of the price.

[gyrotim]

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

I have never driven a Lambo in real life, but I read a few years ago that they were forced to make the handling of their cars "safer" due to the large numbers of new buyers from the Chinese market. Take of that what you will.

Keep in mind that you rarely see exotics on real life race tracks. I've personally seen a McLaren 720s (that then wrecked and was totaled). And a Lambo Super Trofeo driven by a guy that also had a 911 GT2 RS. Facts of the matter are that if someone is serious about going fast they'll buy a Radical or something like that and blow everyone's doors off for a fraction of the price.

No, you're right. So called "track toys" are the most affordable way to go fast.

[beatles42o]

a few people sorta touched on the main point. you gotta drive it you are paying for it if you crash it. there are a few other things people have mentioned that sort of go in hand with, you cant put on throttle in a car like this and expect to be able to turn.

they really expect you to load the tires and suspension to turn. if you dont have weight on the front end, or you arent balanced. you arent turning.

keep in mind that less downforce can be better, too much and youll get understeer.

[clairvoyantwolf]

One last thing. The biggest advantage for mid-engine cars isn't mid corner speed, but corner exit traction. It's okay to slow down a little more in a Lambo if you can then put down the big power coming off the corner. No big HP car is meant to be driven like a Miata or GT86.

[Oggmeista]

Originally posted by Fret:

What control device are you using?

not an anolouge controller like i am using, i'll tell you that much.. the elemento is a nightmare for oversteering..

[Sassanid]

Originally posted by Oggmeista:

Originally posted by Fret:

What control device are you using?

not an anolouge controller like i am using, i'll tell you that much.. the elemento is a nightmare for oversteering..

I don't dispute that, but AC feels worlds apart when using a wheel and a gamepad, and I can only imagine understeer being that much worse using a gamepad when approaching a corner too fast

[lx]

not a fan of the batmobili myself. they need a special anchor launcher, to make a turn

[Oggmeista]

Originally posted by Fret:

Originally posted by Oggmeista:

not an anolouge controller like i am using, i'll tell you that much.. the elemento is a nightmare for oversteering..

I don't dispute that, but AC feels worlds apart when using a wheel and a gamepad, and I can only imagine understeer being that much worse using a gamepad when approaching a corner too fast

Not out of choice, my old wheel (g25) keeps having issues (no steering power), a bios update temporarily fixed it, only for a windows update to break it again, so not for the first time. and you are right, they are worlds apart.

[Chunibyou Kuroi boro]

Originally posted by gyrotim:

I've driven just about all the cars in this game but the Lamborghini's by far have the most understeer next to let's say the Ford Mustang. The only one that handles corners well is the Sesto Elemento. Do Lamborghini's really have handling that bad irl?

as someone who's briefly owned a Lamborghini... it depends how you drive it. At speed and pushing it, yes they are basically all understeer because they're meant for slower than a snail in and stupidly into a tree because you got on the gas too early out, because unless you're fully out of the corner and have been going straight for 20 meters and are preppared for the torque steer before you get back on the gas, you were on it early. Joking and way over exagerating, but they are really a slow in fast out car, you wanna shed speed before turning in, trail break while turning in, then hurry up and wait until you're pointed in the direction of the corner exit and then all the gas and all the clench.

[gyrotim]

Originally posted by Chunibyou Kuroi boro:

Originally posted by gyrotim:

I've driven just about all the cars in this game but the Lamborghini's by far have the most understeer next to let's say the Ford Mustang. The only one that handles corners well is the Sesto Elemento. Do Lamborghini's really have handling that bad irl?

as someone who's briefly owned a Lamborghini... it depends how you drive it. At speed and pushing it, yes they are basically all understeer because they're meant for slower than a snail in and stupidly into a tree because you got on the gas too early out, because unless you're fully out of the corner and have been going straight for 20 meters and are preppared for the torque steer before you get back on the gas, you were on it early. Joking and way over exagerating, but they are really a slow in fast out car, you wanna shed speed before turning in, trail break while turning in, then hurry up and wait until you're pointed in the direction of the corner exit and then all the gas and all the clench.

I guess I have to adjust my driving style for them. I've been driving BMW's in the game more recently and they have the opposite effect being mostly front engine rwd cars.