FFB wheel rattling while driving perfectly straight (buggy behavior)

[Mb]

Anybody ever got rid of the weird FFB rattling while driving absolutely 100% straight as an arrow? It's present in all cars and is annoyingly noticeable. I'd love to drive with a quite high value for minimum force to enhance the low grip/loss of grip situations and how they feel without clipping the high output forces. Unfortunately this is a no-go at the moment because the wheel is causing so much FFB vibrations that it shakes my whole table.

NOTE: this is NOT a wheel issue.. it is most likely an Assetto Corsa physics issue of some kind. It happens in no other simulators that I have (I have them all.. every single one of them, except rF2).

You can even see the buggy FFB output in the telemetry APP (FFB output part of the app). It's perfectly smooth while turning just a few degrees to the right or left but as soon as I drive dead straight, I get the rattling. I've got the same issue with the DFGT but it's not nearly as bad because this wheel too has a clear deadzone when the wheel is completely centered.. however, you can still see the horrible vibrations in the FFB telemetry.. so just because I can't feel them through the DFGT doesn't mean they ain't there.

I'm 99.9% sure this is evident for everybody but I guess most of the G25/27/9xxx crowd never have this issue because their wheels are "dead" when it's exactly at center position. It's still weird that nobody else has reported it, or at least I have not found any threads about this issue.

Could you guys help me out and test this? Simply boost minimum forces to something ridiculous like 30%, take any car for a drive and make sure you do not flatspot the tires! Just drive dead straight.. then check out how the rattling disappears when you turn the wheel just a tiny bit left or right.

[Ghostn0va]

What wheel is it? The reason I ask, is because I resolved the issue by keeping the logitech profiler active at all times (assuming it's Logitech). It's a weird bug, you might have a different wheel, but I just thought this might've been a handy bit of info and things work out.

[Mb]

I have two wheels, a Thrustmaster TX 458 and a Logitech DFGT. Both have the same issue.

[quf]

You only use as much minimum force % as needed. If it starts rattling in the center when driving straight it means you turned it up too much. If this isn't a problem in other games is because you didn't turn up the min.force in those games or those games don't have this option.

I assure if you turn off min.force completely you won't have rattling problems in the centers, so turn down enough to not have those problems.

[Mr Crisp]

Originally posted by QUF:

You only use as much minimum force % as needed. If it starts rattling in the center when driving straight it means you turned it up too much. If this isn't a problem in other games is because you didn't turn up the min.force in those games or those games don't have this option.

I assure if you turn off min.force completely you won't have rattling problems in the centers, so turn down enough to not have those problems.

Yup- this. I have minimum force at 8%, anything higher and I start to get the OPs issue- vibrating on straights.

OP, you can't `get more force` out of a wheel that can only put X amount of force out- if you want more force without clipping you're going to have to buy a serious piece of kit like a direct-drive motor wheelbase, something that has a shedload more torque than these `toy wheels` most people are using.

[Dajonaga]

Originally posted by Mr Crisp:

OP, you can't `get more force` out of a wheel that can only put X amount of force out- if you want more force without clipping you're going to have to buy a serious piece of kit like a direct-drive motor wheelbase, something that has a shedload more torque than these `toy wheels` most people are using.

Agreed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq2Or-Eh6lg

haaahahahaahaaa this chap is a bit bonkers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr2nlNmI_9M

[Mb]

Originally posted by QUF:

You only use as much minimum force % as needed. If it starts rattling in the center when driving straight it means you turned it up too much. If this isn't a problem in other games is because you didn't turn up the min.force in those games or those games don't have this option.

I assure if you turn off min.force completely you won't have rattling problems in the centers, so turn down enough to not have those problems.

This is not true. I can feel the rattling even at tiny amounts of min force. It is there and absent in other games.

In pCars and rF2 demo I can turn up the minimum force to ridiculous levels without annoying rattling.

[Mb]

Not sure if my original post is very unclear or the reading comprehension in this community very low. Here's the deal, I'll be very blunt:

1) I am an EXPERT at tuning FFB. I've had FFB wheels since the very first one released (yes I've had the original MS wheel and the classic red leather MOMO). I know absolutely _everything_ about dynamic range and clipping.. all about how FFB works. Chances are that I know much more about these things than the majority, so please, do not try to blame this on some kind of lack of knowledge on my part. It's a waste of time.

2) I've measured both my wheels numerous times with the wheelcheck FFB utility (found on the iRacing forums). I have plots of both wheels so I know exactly what they are and are not capable of.

3) The reason I want minimum FFB levels higher is to get low-level detail from the physics engine of AC (extremely useful when going over the limit). Due to the "toy wheel" that these are, the low levels get drowned out if you try to run linear forces (who ever came up with the idea to strive for absolute linearity in consumer wheels is an idiot). This is the very reason I want higher min force levels because it doesn't affect the high forces and thus doesn't cause problems with clipping.

4) This "rattling" issue is NOT PRESENT in any of the other simulators. It is almost certain that this is a physics issue in AC. This is why I was hoping somebody could verify this and try it for themselves.

Just to be very very very clear: I am NOT talking about instability of high FFB when letting go of the wheel. Of course the wheel starts seesawing all over the place if you do this. I am talking about RATTLING.. the very definition of the english word (google dictionary: "making a series of short, sharp knocking sounds."). It only happens in a very narrow range, when the wheels of the virtual car are 100% straight forward. As soon as you turn the wheel even a tiny bit, the rattling goes completely away.

[quf]

Turn off road, slip, kerb effects in the ffb section in game controls.
DFGT doesn't really need min.force, that's more for G27 which has more noticeable force deadzone. And put 100% overall forces in logitech software, instead of 107 which some prefer. 107+min.force isn't recommended at all.

Have you tried with min.force 0%? If there's still rattling, it means is bumps from the road/kerbs, or just very direct suspension movement, which is usual in race cars. Road cars are more damped.

[Frito Pendejo]

Originally posted by Dajonaga:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq2Or-Eh6lg

The moment the wheel tries to dislocate your shoulders and break your wrists o.O
30 Nm... That's insane!

[Dajonaga]

Originally posted by | Maggot Brain |:

...1) I am an EXPERT at tuning FFB. ...

Hey expert, I'll be very blunt too... you need to take your discussion to the official forums. Look it up.

Have a good one.

[Ravnhood]

Originally posted by | Maggot Brain |:

3) The reason I want minimum FFB levels higher is to get low-level detail from the physics engine of AC (extremely useful when going over the limit). Due to the "toy wheel" that these are, the low levels get drowned out if you try to run linear forces (who ever came up with the idea to strive for absolute linearity in consumer wheels is an idiot). This is the very reason I want higher min force levels because it doesn't affect the high forces and thus doesn't cause problems with clipping.

Dude, when min force is set too high you end up with inverse low end clipping... If you want to be able to feel the smallest detail then you need a dynamic range of response on the low end, and setting min force too high means you are getting the same force out of every feedback detail under your min force. Hit a small bump that would normally report a force of 5, if your min force is set to 12, it will feel the same from 1- 12 and that 5 becomes a 12. Min force is only meant to raise the response floor up to where your wheel is capable of responding, but as soon as you go beyond that floor you loose fine detail. Real world example; driving a Lotus Elise over a die is going to be obvious at any speed, but it will NOT jolt as hard as driving over a golf ball. In this example the die is a 5 and the golf ball is a 12.

p.s. I had a DFGT before my Fanatec and I really appreciate how responsive and communicative the DFGT is, but the fine details of that wheel are a bit rattly to begin with, but still precise, and the min force comes in a bit upruptly. It is just the nature of the gear driven set-up in the DFGT and I miss the physicality of it over my Fanatec belt drive. The belt drive is more accurate and I like it much better over all, but the gear drive gives a bit of a hard knock that the belt drive just can't produce. It feels more realistic when going over very hard curbs or doing off-road stuff in Dirt Rally, but the belt drive is far superior when you stay on track and drive tidy. Much smoother and progressive build of resistance and whatnot.

[Ravnhood]

So, any luck sorting out your problem, Expert?

[NIKKI IXX]

Originally posted by | Maggot Brain |:

Not sure if my original post is very unclear or the reading comprehension in this community very low. Here's the deal, I'll be very blunt:

1) I am an EXPERT at tuning FFB. I've had FFB wheels since the very first one released (yes I've had the original MS wheel and the classic red leather MOMO). I know absolutely _everything_ about dynamic range and clipping.. all about how FFB works. Chances are that I know much more about these things than the majority, so please, do not try to blame this on some kind of lack of knowledge on my part. It's a waste of time.

2) I've measured both my wheels numerous times with the wheelcheck FFB utility (found on the iRacing forums). I have plots of both wheels so I know exactly what they are and are not capable of.

3) The reason I want minimum FFB levels higher is to get low-level detail from the physics engine of AC (extremely useful when going over the limit). Due to the "toy wheel" that these are, the low levels get drowned out if you try to run linear forces (who ever came up with the idea to strive for absolute linearity in consumer wheels is an idiot). This is the very reason I want higher min force levels because it doesn't affect the high forces and thus doesn't cause problems with clipping.

4) This "rattling" issue is NOT PRESENT in any of the other simulators. It is almost certain that this is a physics issue in AC. This is why I was hoping somebody could verify this and try it for themselves.

Just to be very very very clear: I am NOT talking about instability of high FFB when letting go of the wheel. Of course the wheel starts seesawing all over the place if you do this. I am talking about RATTLING.. the very definition of the english word (google dictionary: "making a series of short, sharp knocking sounds."). It only happens in a very narrow range, when the wheels of the virtual car are 100% straight forward. As soon as you turn the wheel even a tiny bit, the rattling goes completely away.

If you are using Thrustmaster wheel and [SOFT_LOCK] to set wheel rotation that might be your issue. It was for me...Try setting rotation manually and see if it makes a difference.

[Ravnhood]

Maggot, did you ever get this resolved?

[ArkanHell]

In older AC versions i have the same issue with g25 and DFGT too, but i dont remember when i have all fixed just using the 89 gain, 5 filter, 10% minimum force, 35% Kerb, 25% Road effects, 5% Slip effects settings.
A couple weeks ago i tried FFB Clip+AC LUT Generator ( A must have for everybody) and with a pass with Wheelcheck with maxcount set at 100 and AC settings at 100% gain,0 filter, 0 minimum force, 35€ Kerb, 25% Road effects, 5% Slip effects, Enhanced understeer effect, the feeling of the wheel becomes so much better and without any weird issue.

Links for FFB Clip and AC Lut generator
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ffbclip-app.7910/
http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/lut-generator-for-ac.9740/

Dudes, you really MUST try this apps, no matter what kind of wheel you have.