How to Fix Understeer In a v8 Supercar

[harluxx14]

whats a reasonable setup for disengaging understeer for a supercar and almost every other bloody vehicle.

[mmmarac]

You will have to experiment what suits your driving style. I always increase some settings on front (and rear) suspension - front camber and toe-out, increase f/r arb, ride height, increased dampers bump and lower rebound, tyre pressure also plays a big role...

[silvanob2]

Increase front and soften rear suspension first and try out.

[cocowtown]

Originally posted by silvanob2:

Increase front and soften rear suspension first and try out.

You've got that backwards for decreasing understeer.

[CarDr]

It depends on where and why it's happening.

This site is focused on oval track/nascar, but it offers allot for understanding setups. The trouble shooting charts show all possible adjustments that can effect the handling for each condition.
http://www.racelinecentral.com/RacingSetupGuide.html

It's worth printing / saving the whole article, it could take multiple read throughs for it all to come together, the charts are good for quick reference.

[Mr Deap]

Well the car understeer by default, because of the sim racing driving model. That's why it handle like a prius with fat rear tires & on/off throttle control is the way to drive.

The important part is to adapt to the driving model of the videogame physic & modeled for simracers liking(aka arcade understeer physic with setup to win easy/effortless). To trail brake in racing sim, you have to hold the brake pressure & turn in to force the front to get grip. You have to put your mind that the rear end is the pivot point & the car rotate from the front. When sense a change in behavior, you can release brake pressure & repeat. Wjhen applying brake pressure mid corner, you have to hold it & turn in, Don't worry the car won't spin out since the rear is the pivot point. Don't brush the brake & unease the steering. it won't work.

Well for the setup.. you have to consider the suspension geometry. It's all about sweet spot to get the most out of it. You could increase or decrease the camber or toe, if it's not at that specifc 3d angle, you get slightly less grip from optimal value. Although the general rule if it's in that sweet spot, less suspension travel=less aggressive toe & less aggressive camber setting. You can see in codemasters F! game that both toe & camber setting is in the same window for that reason. Remember that changing the ride height interact with the suspension geometry.

Camber negative deliver less contact patch resulting less drag when not cornering. Race car suspension design are designed to be fast on a track. So when you corner. the angle change from the toe/camber will deliver optimal contact patch/load sensitivity from the tires(tire pressure from temp change also need to be optimal).

Another example is spring vs damper. Well you could input different value on both & result similar suspension travel, because they both have different function & act together(although result different speed in compression). Again the general rule "less damping/fast strong spring" "more damping/slow weak spring".

[clairvoyantwolf]

Ignore Mr. Deap.

It is helpful to know "where" the understeer is happening. Entry into the corner, the middle of the corner, and the exit of the corner are all affected by different things. If you are having such a problem with understeer with every car, it leads me to the conclusion that you are suffering more of a driving style issue than setup (though setup may still be a problem). Instead of "driving" the car think of it more as "dancing" with the car. Think more that you steer with your right foot (gas and brake) and slow the car down with the steering wheel.

Most sim racers mistakenly think that time to won in the braking zones, and push them as far as they can. Hard braking overloads the front tires and leads to, you guessed it, understeer. In reality time is won on corner exit (mid corner speed for the pro, but if you were able to maximize that you wouldn't need to ask for driving tips on a forum). Having not seen how you drive at all my basic suggestion is to brake slightly earlier and use a smooth release on the brake pedal. Braking on track is the exact opposite on the street. On the street you press the brakes softly at first then harder when coming to a stop, for comfort. On track you quickly (but smoothly) apply maximum brakes then trail off as you get closer to the corner. This keeps the front end loaded (remember you are dancing with the car) to give a quicker faster turn in.

As per actual settings to change. I mostly mess with street cars in game, so I'm not the absolute best when it come to setup. That being said, I'll assume this is low speed corners, so lets leave aero out of the picture. Generally speaking set your ride height, which goes a long way towards setting your spring rate. The best way to think about it is the more a tire is allowed to move (softer) the more grip it will generate (compliance). The stiffer a suspension is setup the more responsive the car will be (will react quickly to inputs), but the less grip it will ultimately generate. It is an error to think that stiffer is always "better." Stiffer might feel better, but may be ultimately slower due to less overall grip.

So after you have your ride height and springs set, move next to dampers. Springs control how FAR the car rolls, pitches, and heaves. Dampers control how fast, generally speaking. The two work hand in hand. Think of a car going through a turn. Under braking the car pitches forward. Once the driver starts turning, the weight (really "load") transitions from pure pitch to some pitch and roll to pure roll. Once accelerating out of the corner begins, the weight transitions again from pure roll, to some roll and pitch (this time rearward) to pure pitch. Once again how far the car rolls or pitches in any one direction is control by the springs (sort of). How the car transitions between each state is controlled by the dampers.

After the dampers are set the next step is alignment. Since the movement of the car is determined, alignment is what makes sure the tires are pointing the correct way through all phases of the traction circle. As example, it wasn't the rear engine per se that granted the early 911's their "widow maker" status. It was actually the trailing arm rear suspension that dynamically went to toe out in the rear when extended. This caused instability in the rear when lifting off the throttle. Once the car stated spinning the rear engine insured it was unrecoverable. Modern 911's, which tightly control the behavior of the rear tires, have long since exorcised this handling vice.

The last step should be the anti-roll bars. Generally speaking if you have a very soft suspension you want stiff bars and vice versa. As I said before the car gets grip (ignoring aero) from the suspension moving. So if the pitch and heave is tightly controlled (read as stiff) the car will have to roll to get any grip and vice versa. The front to rear balance of the bars is a final "steady state" tune of car balance.

sorry for the book, but I hope that helps.

[cocowtown]

OMG poeple. He asked for "reasonable setup" for front engined V8 understeer, not explanations of why old rear engined F-6 Porsche 911s are squirrely.

Less understeer:
* Increase front negative camber
* Lower front PSI or increase rear PSI
* Soften front rollbar or tighten rear ARB

That should get you started.

[clairvoyantwolf]

Originally posted by cocowtown:

OMG poeple. He asked for "reasonable setup" for front engined V8 understeer, not explanations of why old rear engined F-6 Porsche 911s are squirrely.

Less understeer:
* Increase front negative camber
* Lower front PSI or increase rear PSI
* Soften front rollbar or tighten rear ARB

That should get you started.

Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish

[harluxx14]

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

Originally posted by cocowtown:

OMG poeple. He asked for "reasonable setup" for front engined V8 understeer, not explanations of why old rear engined F-6 Porsche 911s are squirrely.

Less understeer:
* Increase front negative camber
* Lower front PSI or increase rear PSI
* Soften front rollbar or tighten rear ARB

That should get you started.

Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish

Crack up lol

[harluxx14]

Originally posted by cocowtown:

OMG poeple. He asked for "reasonable setup" for front engined V8 understeer, not explanations of why old rear engined F-6 Porsche 911s are squirrely.

Less understeer:
* Increase front negative camber
* Lower front PSI or increase rear PSI
* Soften front rollbar or tighten rear ARB

That should get you started.

Yess nice and simple and basic how i like it, and thanks will give it a go bro

[Mr Deap]

Originally posted by harluxx14:

Originally posted by cocowtown:

OMG poeple. He asked for "reasonable setup" for front engined V8 understeer, not explanations of why old rear engined F-6 Porsche 911s are squirrely.

Less understeer:
* Increase front negative camber
* Lower front PSI or increase rear PSI
* Soften front rollbar or tighten rear ARB

That should get you started.

Yess nice and simple and basic how i like it, and thanks will give it a go bro

You may be disappointed depending if you don't trailbrake like a sim racer. If the car feel worst by increasing the front negative camber it will feel worst.

I learned by downloading a simracer setup & my front tire turned blue, because I was brushing the brake while trail braking. if the tips you quoted gives you that result, ya getting trolled quite badly.

I used to increase the front spring rate which resulted less camber change(lower the front height to maintain the default suspension geometry) & the car felt less understeery while brushing the brake. Sure it will result better lap time by driving realistically, but you can even reduced more by driving like a simracer using default.

[harluxx14]

Originally posted by Mr Deap:

Originally posted by harluxx14:

Yess nice and simple and basic how i like it, and thanks will give it a go bro

You may be disappointed depending if you don't trailbrake like a sim racer. If the car feel worst by increasing the front negative camber it will feel worst.

I learned by downloading a simracer setup & my front tire turned blue, because I was brushing the brake while trail braking. if the tips you quoted gives you that result, ya getting trolled quite badly.

I used to increase the front spring rate which resulted less camber change(lower the front height to maintain the default suspension geometry) & the car felt less understeery while brushing the brake. Sure it will result better lap time by driving realistically, but you can even reduced more by driving like a simracer using default.

Okay thanks will give it a try and using default if i want to will be a mission but just for now i want to get the basics sorted not flying 100mph into corners lol, also whats that simracer setup application you use.

[Mr Deap]

You just need to adjust your driving.

You often hear to ease of the brake as you turn in. But that's not how you pull simracers lap time. Basically what you want to do is you hold the brake & turn in a bit. When you feel it's about to oversteer, you have to think like a simracer.

Hmm Yeah, you turn-in. Because drifting is dumb.

Driving like that in simracing is 12sec slower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zNPFcn3pAw

After you release the brake pressure a bit & you repeat. As speed reduce a lot, you can crank a lot more.

Sim trail brake until the apex & accelerate late with on/off throttle control. Sure you can accelerate smoothly at the apex, but the time lost is like 0.002sec. Practicing late on/off throttle control is a good practice to pull quick exit speed.

[rola]

the thing with AC is that every car feels like it understeers. It actually turns just as well as in other sims. The difference between limit of grip and understeer is just so easy to find and so easy to cross in AC.

[Mr Deap]

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

Ignore Mr. Deap.

..."Most sim racers mistakenly think that time to won in the braking zones, and push them as far as they can. Hard braking overloads the front tires and leads to, you guessed it, understeer. In reality time is won on corner exit"..

driver61 Sim Racing tips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO-URMCm7SI

Confirmed, ignore clairvoyantwolf. He's a troll