GT3 at Spa, Eau rouge is flat out in the worst of conditions

[Oina]

This topic has been raised before. Namely that Eau rouge is flat out in a GT3 car which some people have argued is unreasonable. There are real life examples of GT3 drivers taking Eau rouge flat out, although this happens very rarely and likely only in the best of circumstances.

The following video demonstrates the real world scenario with Pasin Lathouras driving a Ferrari 488 GT3 in race conditions. Which tire compound or how much fuel that is actually in the car I do not know. Regardless it is very clear that there is a significant lift before Eau rouge. Lap times are around 2min25sec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxz91nhtsEE

Here is another video, this time with Mikkel Mac where he does a 2min16sec lap and even he has to lift for Eau rouge. It should be noted that this is likely in qualifying conditions with low fuel and soft tires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmwEsvK6sqQ

Previously we have discussed whether it should even be possible to take Eau rouge flat out in a GT3 in the game or not in the best conditions. What I think we can all agree on is that it should not be possible to take Eau rouge flat out on an old track, with a full tank of fuel and hard compount tires in a 488 GT3. Especially not given what we have seen above. However in the following video I demonstrate that this is easily doable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efOR-LQ6AyQ

Clearly something strange is going on here. I doubt it would be easy to go below the 2min25sec mark in these conditions, and certainly you will not get anywhere near 2min16sec. Even so Eau rouge is flat, which I think we can all agree that it shouldn't be.

[Oina]

iRacing gets it right. Here is a video with Frederik Rasmussen. A qualifying lap for the Blancpain GT series. Grip levels are probably a bit too high here, but he is still not perfectly flat out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxVB7vdmuGM

The grip levels are probably a bit too high in Rasmussen's case because the time is quite low. But lower the grip levels a bit, which would result in a slightly larger lift at Eau rouge and it would very likely match the following lap quite well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve12mfbQg20

That is a lap from 24h of Spa this year. I have seen in some places that realistic air temperatures for Spa is around 10 degrees Celcius. But, 24h of Spa takes place in July and as you can see here:

https://www.worldweatheronline.com/spa-weather-averages/be.aspx

the avarage temperutare at Spa in July is 19 degrees Celcius which is not far off from what I did in my test. Considering that I took Eau rouge flat relatively easy in my video; I doubt the scenario would be different at an even lower temperature.

[Oina]

To clarify the problem further: Eau rouge is flat out in a 488 GT3 on the lowest possible grip (Dusty and Old is similar in my opinion) allowed by the in game menus, on the hardest compound tires, on a full tank of gas. It doesn't have the right to be flat out even on a green track in those conditions, but it is. Even worse is that the lap times are some 10 seconds slower than the corresponding qualifying laps, and we are still flat out through Eau rouge when real life drivers are not.

[OMG 77]

At spa if I see a time 2.15 I think something isn't right this isn't project cars 1. I do a perfect lap and get 2.20 then I'm beaten by 7 seconds I know there's faster people with better setup but no way. I think car games should have a impossible time kicker built in or check files for cheats. Ive said if there's cheaters in project cars and you get attacked by people but how do they get these times. I'm in vr and fine tuned my setup hit every apex at the right speed then beat the fast regular people I race buy 1 second then some new person you've never seen beats you by 5seconds (no way)

[Oina]

Originally posted by ..SMILER..:

At spa if I see a time 2.15 I think something isn't right this isn't project cars 1. I do a perfect lap and get 2.20 then I'm beaten by 7 seconds I know there's faster people with better setup but no way. I think car games should have a impossible time kicker built in or check files for cheats. Ive said if there's cheaters in project cars and you get attacked by people but how do they get these times. I'm in vr and fine tuned my setup hit every apex at the right speed then beat the fast regular people I race buy 1 second then some new person you've never seen beats you by 5seconds (no way)

I have driven two cars since I returned to AC recently, the 488 GT3 and the Audi R8 LMS 2016. Never drove the 488 GT3 in optimal condition as defined by the game, but in the Audi I did a 2min16sec time on the default setup with soft tires and qualify fuel, so it is certainly possible to get even lower in perfect conditions with an optimal setup.

Whether these times are realistic or not doesn't really matter for the issue I'm trying to address though. But I should mention that a green track yields somewhat realistic times.

The problem I'm trying to address here, which strangely enough no one seem even the slightest bit interested in acknowledging, is that cars seem to have a lot more high speed grip than they should have. It is sort of as if downforce is calculated incorrectly at high speeds.

[OMG 77]

it not 100 percent right no way can most people be as fast as pro gt3 driver as much as they like to think they are. all i can say is its better than most game at getting it right

[Oina]

Originally posted by ..SMILER..:

it not 100 percent right no way can most people be as fast as pro gt3 driver as much as they like to think they are. all i can say is its better than most game at getting it right

It's not even close to getting it right in this regard. And if you read my posts above you will have seen that I provided an example from iRacing which gets much closer.

[Frogster 🐸]

You have too much wing if you are doing it easy flat while staying on optimal driving line

[Oina]

Originally posted by Hemuli:

You have too much wing if you are doing it easy flat while staying on optimal driving line

Nope, has nothing to do with the wing in this case. Default setups in AC have insane understeer, if anything lowering the wing will make it even easier. Sure, I could put rear wing to 0 and spin out of Eau rouge, but I'm sure you realize why that scenario would be absurd.

[SutqaySyrup]

If you look at the speed differences between real life and in-game, it's actually really really close. The cause of this might be that in real world, mechanics can fine tune the engine to suit the track (doesn't mean it has more power, but just the engine perameters suits the track better), and the fuel quality, gear ratio etc etc can all effect the engine power output at a sepecific throttle level at specific gear), if you closly compare the speed differences with the amount of throttle drivers applied in real life, you can see that you need more throttle to achive the same speed as in real life in Assetto Corsa.

[Oina]

Originally posted by iltarix:

If you look at the speed differences between real life and in-game, it's actually really really close. The cause of this might be that in real world, mechanics can fine tune the engine to suit the track (doesn't mean it has more power, but just the engine perameters suits the track better), and the fuel quality, gear ratio etc etc can all effect the engine power output at a sepecific throttle level at specific gear), if you closly compare the speed differences with the amount of throttle drivers applied in real life, you can see that you need more throttle to achive the same speed as in real life in Assetto Corsa.

When Assetto Corsa is setup so that lap times match the lap times done in real life, I agree that a side by side comparison is quite similar. Anything else would be strange.

The problem is the behavior of the car compared to real life, and there it is very clear that Assetto Corsa doesn't do a very good job. You are not supposed to be able to take turns like Eau rouge, Blanchimont and second Stavelot flat out in race conditions, and it should be very hard to do it during qualifying. This is not the case in Assetto Corsa.

rfactor 2 and iRacing on the other hand gets it almost spot on.

[OMG 77]

Playing it yesterday and I'm finding second to last corner at spa the fast left very easy in AC other games you really have to think about hitting apex but on AC not so much. Its only track I've noticed this kind of thing so maybe problem is with the track.

[Oina]

Originally posted by ..SMILER..:

Playing it yesterday and I'm finding second to last corner at spa the fast left very easy in AC other games you really have to think about hitting apex but on AC not so much. Its only track I've noticed this kind of thing so maybe problem is with the track.

You are probably speaking about Blanchimont. The same thing is true for Eau rouge and Stavelot as well.

It is not a problem with the track. Someone converted the same laser scanned track into rfactor 2. The GT3 cars in rfactor 2 behave more or less exactly as you would expect them to in all three turns in all kinds of conditions.

I believe the flaw is fundamental to the physics of the game, and judging from lap times I'd say it's a problem with high speed grip. Low speed corners are fine, but when speed increases there seem to be too much grip. It could be something related to how downforce is calculated. I am of course only speculating in these regards.

[Dajonaga]

Originally posted by Oina Lyons:

I am of course only speculating in these regards.

Riiiiiiiiiiight...

[Oina]

Originally posted by Dajonaga:

Originally posted by Oina Lyons:

I am of course only speculating in these regards.

Riiiiiiiiiiight...

Do you incinuate that there is something wrong in speculating? Perhaps you have a better explanation for this discrepancy?

[Oina]

Originally posted by iltarix:

If you look at the speed differences between real life and in-game, it's actually really really close. The cause of this might be that in real world, mechanics can fine tune the engine to suit the track (doesn't mean it has more power, but just the engine perameters suits the track better), and the fuel quality, gear ratio etc etc can all effect the engine power output at a sepecific throttle level at specific gear), if you closly compare the speed differences with the amount of throttle drivers applied in real life, you can see that you need more throttle to achive the same speed as in real life in Assetto Corsa.

Reading this again I'm beginnig to realize that I perhaps misunderstood your point.

Suppose we travel up Eau rouge and compare it to real life. I suppose you are making the point that in order to keep up with real life in Assetto corsa, that is to say maintain the same speed as real life drivers, we have to continue to apply throttle while they lift off?

It is quite interesting to remark that the speed we lose up through Eau rouge at full throttle, real life drivers lose by lifting the throttle.