Levelling up cars is too grindy

[Mexicola9302]

It should be twice the CP we get for each action, or even more it's annoying. I get it they want that ppl play the game long and often and all that. But completing a whole series of like 4 races with 4 trainings and the car is only level 16 or something sucks. We should be car level 25 minimum after one series, maybe 40 after 2 and 50 after 3. It just needs better balancing IMO. Or at least you should get a bonus if you overtake other cars in a clean way and there should be more bonuses overall. Double or triple everything or add more ways to earn carpoints.

Or what they could do is, just remove the car levelling completely and just let us buy the parts we want with CP. It's like they wanna make the game a car RPG or something. It's just annoying.

[Voodoochile]

Originally posted by kireta:

Originally posted by pizza7:

is says nothing, sales form ms shop, console are not counted.

Even if you compare it to other xbox games on steam, it doesn;t look good. For example Forza Horizon 5 which occupies 67th place. Barely matching profit a 2 years old game brings, should be worrisome.

You guys are halfright about gamepass owners. People try games on gamepass first, before deciding to buy or not to buy. But if they decide to buy, there's enough people more wiling to buy here, than there. Why else MS would be willing to lose 30% off purchase to Valve?

I don't think that this discussion is going somewhere. To me T10 and MS put very little effort in this game for some reason and are well prepared for this low sales performance. Otherwise someone messed-up BIG TIME if they were thinking this will do well in the state which it released. Its a gamepass tittle from day1 and designed as a live service. It will probably live up to expectations in 1-2 years (not unlike FH5). We were just fooled that the game is worth 100$ at release. It's the gamepass subscribers that will be paying for it's long term support.

[Zaxxon]

maybe its because i'm using a wheel or maybe i have good racing sims skills (10 years using wheels) i dont know but in my case i dont think it's not near "grindy" because i think it's very good the way it is now and there's another good thing in forza that gran turismo will never have: i can finally drive ANY car in the game because there's an option to RENT and the pricing system is so much more fair than in gran turismo which by the way if you believe forza is "grindy" than try racing for 50 hours in an oval circuit just to buy some 25 million credits ferrari

loving forza so far, just a couple of bugs annoying so far but for a game launch at least for me i think is very good

[Mexicola9302]

Originally posted by Zaxxon:

maybe its because i'm using a wheel or maybe i have good racing sims skills (10 years using wheels) i dont know but in my case i dont think it's not near "grindy" because i think it's very good the way it is now and there's another good thing in forza that gran turismo will never have: i can finally drive ANY car in the game because there's an option to RENT and the pricing system is so much more fair than in gran turismo which by the way if you believe forza is "grindy" than try racing for 50 hours in an oval circuit just to buy some 25 million credits ferrari

loving forza so far, just a couple of bugs annoying so far but for a game launch at least for me i think is very good

Because you like grindy games everybody should, roger that.

[kireta]

The point of grind in GT7 was to frustrate you to point of pulling out credit card. A-hole design, no argument here, but at least design that makes logical sense.

[Apostoliskf98]

you need car xp if you want to change tyres and rims??? Im out

[Mexicola9302]

Originally posted by Apostoliskf98:

you need car xp if you want to change tyres and rims??? Im out

Yeah it's ridiculous.

[clairvoyantwolf]

I think after 250+ comments it’s pretty safe to say that T10 did the worst thing any entertainment company can do, they split their audience. Some people like the XP system others (like myself) hate it. Any fix or lack there of will anger one group or the other.

Ironically the XP system makes me less interested in building cars and driving cars that I don’t already have an interest in. I bought the premium version on the MS store, I don’t regret the purchase, but if the XP system becomes a staple of Forza this will likely be my last game in the series.

[Mexicola9302]

Livery designers have to grind 45 levels to be able to create designs for widebody cars.

Fuel and Air
Exhaust – Level 1
Air Filter – Level 1
Intake Manifold and Throttle Body – Level 1
Restrictor Plate – Level 1
Fuel System – Level 8
Ignition – Level 11
Turbo – Level 20
Intercooler – Level 20

Engine
Oil and Cooling – Level 1
Flywheel – Level 6
Camshaft – Level 23
Valves – Level 26
Displacement – Level 30
Pistons and Compression – Level 35

Platform and Handling
Brakes – Level 1
Chassis Reinforcement and Roll Cage – Level 1
Ballast – Level 1
Front Ant-roll Bars – Level 4
Rear Anti-roll Bars – Level 4
Spring and Dampers – Level 8
Weight Reduction – Level 20

Tires
Front Tire Width – Level 2
Rear Tire Width – Level 2
Tire Compound – Level 11

Wheels
Stock Wheel Style – Level 2
Custom Wheels (A-Z) – Level 2

Drivetrain
Clutch – Level 7
Transmission – Level 9
Differential – Level 9
Driveline – Level 10

Aero and Appearance
Rear Wing – Level 12
Front Bumper – Level 15
Rear Bumper – Level 15
Hood – Level 15
Side Skirts – Level 15

Conversion
Engine Swap – Level 40
Body Kit – Level 45
Drivetrain Swap – Level 50

[Mexicola9302]

I just installed a Twin Turbo into my Ford Mustang 2018, damn it sounds so annoying i wanted to cut my ears off.

Replaced it with a replacement loader or whatever it's called, else it's undriveable.

[Rasluka]

Originally posted by Voodoochile:

Originally posted by kireta:

Even if you compare it to other xbox games on steam, it doesn;t look good. For example Forza Horizon 5 which occupies 67th place. Barely matching profit a 2 years old game brings, should be worrisome.

You guys are halfright about gamepass owners. People try games on gamepass first, before deciding to buy or not to buy. But if they decide to buy, there's enough people more wiling to buy here, than there. Why else MS would be willing to lose 30% off purchase to Valve?

I don't think that this discussion is going somewhere. To me T10 and MS put very little effort in this game for some reason and are well prepared for this low sales performance. Otherwise someone messed-up BIG TIME if they were thinking this will do well in the state which it released. Its a gamepass tittle from day1 and designed as a live service. It will probably live up to expectations in 1-2 years (not unlike FH5). We were just fooled that the game is worth 100$ at release. It's the gamepass subscribers that will be paying for it's long term support.

100% that MS had no faith in this from the start and saw no incentive for effort.
There's a reason that this game isn't full of microtransactions and not aggressively monetized like usual.

[The Met4l God]

Originally posted by Mexicola9302:

Originally posted by Laysurfaze:

Instant gratification is the only thing being held back by leveling cars and the game is better for it. Too bad you have to work for something.

So you want car painters to drive for hours just so they can create liveries? Because of "instant gratification". And you want family fathers to grind for hours, next to their busy life and work and all that? Because of "instant gratification"?

This is the worst argument, "instant gratification" my ass.

What about games that are not "grinding for grindings sake"? Where are they all of a sudden?

The devs don't get more money if they have artificial high player numbers because ppl idle grind the races, leaving their computers on for hours.
No the players won't recommend the game to their friends, because it's grindy af and this way the game dies very quickly.

Just look at the steamdb: https://steamdb.info/app/2440510/info/

1411 players ingame. The rest are gamepass/windows and x-box players. Ppl don't like the game it seems, else there would be more steam players.

The problem with the number you reported is you have to know when peak hours are otherwise you're just reporting off-hours player counts. For example, right now that same link shows 2652 in-game. When you made your post, I was sleeping and it is a work night.

You're also looking at just the player count from a section of the overall market. How big is Steam for Xbox games? Up until a couple of years ago, there weren't any first-party MS games on Steam.

I don't see what the big deal is with Liveries unless you're some graphic artist trying to get their name out there. Compared to previous FM titles, the amount of actual brand logos is really low. If I'm going to have to freehand stuff with primitive shapes, then I'd rather use something with more flexibility like Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator (<- if rich).

[The Met4l God]

Originally posted by Mexicola9302:

I just installed a Twin Turbo into my Ford Mustang 2018, damn it sounds so annoying i wanted to cut my ears off.

Replaced it with a replacement loader or whatever it's called, else it's undriveable.

To me it sounds about right. Non-stock turbos used in racing are noisy and whiny.

[Basil Fawlty]

Originally posted by Rasluka:

Originally posted by Voodoochile:

I don't think that this discussion is going somewhere. To me T10 and MS put very little effort in this game for some reason and are well prepared for this low sales performance. Otherwise someone messed-up BIG TIME if they were thinking this will do well in the state which it released. Its a gamepass tittle from day1 and designed as a live service. It will probably live up to expectations in 1-2 years (not unlike FH5). We were just fooled that the game is worth 100$ at release. It's the gamepass subscribers that will be paying for it's long term support.

100% that MS had no faith in this from the start and saw no incentive for effort.
There's a reason that this game isn't full of microtransactions and not aggressively monetized like usual.

I think you are very close to the truth. They saw it as an easy money grab.

[clairvoyantwolf]

Originally posted by Rasluka:

100% that MS had no faith in this from the start and saw no incentive for effort.
There's a reason that this game isn't full of microtransactions and not aggressively monetized like usual.

From the standpoint of covering for financial loss, this post makes no sense. If they had no faith in FM they would have gone cheap on the expensive parts of the game (physics model, graphics engine, car/track licenses) and put MORE effort into microtransactions and other monetization schemes that are dirt cheap to implement.

FM is everywhere Xbox is right now. To put my MBA hat on it is obvious the game is meant to sell gamepass. The core game design, including the XP system, stretches out the playing experience, which keeps players subscribed longer. Several T10 executives have said multiple times that they intend to add content to the game over time and that it was specifically designed for that purpose.

That the game is on steam is to pickup the pc players that don’t have gamepass. Mere pennies really the grand scheme of things. Steam player count means nothing to the success or failure of the game if what I say is true. The real metric is how many subscribers are gained to gamepass because of FM and how many stay subscribed.

[Rasluka]

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

Originally posted by Rasluka:

100% that MS had no faith in this from the start and saw no incentive for effort.
There's a reason that this game isn't full of microtransactions and not aggressively monetized like usual.

From the standpoint of covering for financial loss, this post makes no sense. If they had no faith in FM they would have gone cheap on the expensive parts of the game (physics model, graphics engine, car/track licenses) and put MORE effort into microtransactions and other monetization schemes that are dirt cheap to implement.

I dunno, there's not much point putting in monetization when the playerbase is so small, and adding it does take a decent amount effort, it's not as easy as it seems.
There's a lot of psychology that goes into it and getting the right balance that takes a lot of time and testing. In the simplest terms, a grind has to be JUST enough that it's fun to keep playing, but JUST enough frustrating to push people to get out their wallets. That's not easy.

The fact that they evidently couldn't even get this right with the car levels alone means they were no way ready to monetize it efficiently.

I think you're definitely right about it being a gamepass seller though.