make career better.

[OMG 77]

so little to choose from and most races are with cars and tracks i dont like.
More GP tracks and more race cars please.
50 hours and i've nearly finished the game? thats not like all the other forza.

[Viking2121]

But you get a set of different races that are recycled every week!

Yeah I agree, why I quit playing really, I feel like they wanted an only multiplayer experience and its not even that good, I did like FM7's way for doing the career, especially on the long race setting, but even then that game also had a lot of races that did not include race cars, just every day drivers, I Feel like I could just boot up FH5 for that kind of racing.

[clairvoyantwolf]

You can race any car, class, or division you want at any track you want, with any time of day/weather in free play. What else do you want in a circuit racer?

[Moga CMDR]

Originally posted by ..SMILER..:

so little to choose from and most races are with cars and tracks i dont like.

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

What else do you want in a circuit racer?

Custom championships. It's alot of fun in the CM games. I hate the career and barely did any of it. But I often hate the bogus career modes games have, so that is not new.

However, some games have custom championships, and I tend to enjoy those a lot. Instead f just a single race, allow people to have a series of races and get points along the way.

It would be a great addition. Sadly, I think most people only do the "curated" content so they probably didn't want to invest time in something like this.

[spiralyguy]

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

You can race any car, class, or division you want at any track you want, with any time of day/weather in free play. What else do you want in a circuit racer?

I've seen this argument before and I don't understand how you don't understand. Having a larger scope goal instead of just the current race is motivating. Pretty much every other racing game (not all) has a career mode, obviously people like it. F1 has a great career mode and it kept me playing far longer than endless free play would have.

[docup87]

I'm still a bit miffed because they announced the career mode as more or less revolutionary before launch. But it's a massive downgrade to Motorsport 7, whose career mode was already nothing to write home about. I'm just glad that instead of buying the game, I tried it out with the Gamepass.

[clairvoyantwolf]

Originally posted by spiralyguy:

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

You can race any car, class, or division you want at any track you want, with any time of day/weather in free play. What else do you want in a circuit racer?

I've seen this argument before and I don't understand how you don't understand. Having a larger scope goal instead of just the current race is motivating. Pretty much every other racing game (not all) has a career mode, obviously people like it. F1 has a great career mode and it kept me playing far longer than endless free play would have.

People are motivated by different things. Long before the game came out I argued that concepts like career modes or earning cars/parts was dated game design (in sims).

FM4 is considered by most as the best FM, from the standpoint of game design. In it the player was more free to do whatever they wanted than FM23. Car upgrades were free after on about a half an hour with the manufacturer. Players could also make their own multiplayer lobbies that weren’t private. Yes, there were structured events but there was no reward for completing them other than an achievement (I think). F1 is supposed to simulate a Formula season or seasons. A circuit racer sandbox, like FM, should let the player do whatever they want whenever they want IMO

[spiralyguy]

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

Originally posted by spiralyguy:

I've seen this argument before and I don't understand how you don't understand. Having a larger scope goal instead of just the current race is motivating. Pretty much every other racing game (not all) has a career mode, obviously people like it. F1 has a great career mode and it kept me playing far longer than endless free play would have.

People are motivated by different things. Long before the game came out I argued that concepts like career modes or earning cars/parts was dated game design (in sims).

FM4 is considered by most as the best FM, from the standpoint of game design. In it the player was more free to do whatever they wanted than FM23. Car upgrades were free after on about a half an hour with the manufacturer. Players could also make their own multiplayer lobbies that weren’t private. Yes, there were structured events but there was no reward for completing them other than an achievement (I think). F1 is supposed to simulate a Formula season or seasons. A circuit racer sandbox, like FM, should let the player do whatever they want whenever they want IMO

It's too difficult to get a good race with the current free play. If you just quick free play it, cars vary from -40 to +40 your car, and even within those ratings the speed differences can vary so dramatically. I was doing advanced freeplay set to the type of car I was driving with a cap of 600 or 700 I forget. For one thing, the start position sucks, if you order by PI and you're at the cap you'll almost always be at the front, and random start position is stupid. Then in the actual race the speed difference in the cars is insane, one race I'm crushing the AI, the next the 1st and 2nd are 10+ seconds ahead and 3rd is 5 seconds behind. Mostly to do with length of straights and car parts. There's also no practice, or test drive before the race.

In FM7 you had nice homologated series where things were generally pretty close. There were lots of them and you could set the race length to Long for nice 30-60 minute races. There was an option to test drive before the race started.

The "Sandbox" is just too many options to make things unfun. This is exactly why I don't play AC. Leave it in if people like it, but there should be a plethora of good defaults.

[Viking2121]

Originally posted by spiralyguy:

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

People are motivated by different things. Long before the game came out I argued that concepts like career modes or earning cars/parts was dated game design (in sims).

FM4 is considered by most as the best FM, from the standpoint of game design. In it the player was more free to do whatever they wanted than FM23. Car upgrades were free after on about a half an hour with the manufacturer. Players could also make their own multiplayer lobbies that weren’t private. Yes, there were structured events but there was no reward for completing them other than an achievement (I think). F1 is supposed to simulate a Formula season or seasons. A circuit racer sandbox, like FM, should let the player do whatever they want whenever they want IMO

It's too difficult to get a good race with the current free play. If you just quick free play it, cars vary from -40 to +40 your car, and even within those ratings the speed differences can vary so dramatically. I was doing advanced freeplay set to the type of car I was driving with a cap of 600 or 700 I forget. For one thing, the start position sucks, if you order by PI and you're at the cap you'll almost always be at the front, and random start position is stupid. Then in the actual race the speed difference in the cars is insane, one race I'm crushing the AI, the next the 1st and 2nd are 10+ seconds ahead and 3rd is 5 seconds behind. Mostly to do with length of straights and car parts. There's also no practice, or test drive before the race.

In FM7 you had nice homologated series where things were generally pretty close. There were lots of them and you could set the race length to Long for nice 30-60 minute races. There was an option to test drive before the race started.

The "Sandbox" is just too many options to make things unfun. This is exactly why I don't play AC. Leave it in if people like it, but there should be a plethora of good defaults.

Yeah, if i'm int he mood for Motorsport, I usually fire up FM7, I do miss them long career races.

[Seacaller]

+1. Feedback here seems like it will be ignored, it's better to go to the forza forums and leave this request because more devs will see it. I know because I'm active in the Forza forums.

[spiralyguy]

Also, just did a quick freeplay, random track, auto laps. Got 2 laps on lemans, that's fine. It goes to next random track, spa..... still 2 laps. I don't think it recalculates laps -_-

[clairvoyantwolf]

Originally posted by spiralyguy:

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

People are motivated by different things. Long before the game came out I argued that concepts like career modes or earning cars/parts was dated game design (in sims).

FM4 is considered by most as the best FM, from the standpoint of game design. In it the player was more free to do whatever they wanted than FM23. Car upgrades were free after on about a half an hour with the manufacturer. Players could also make their own multiplayer lobbies that weren’t private. Yes, there were structured events but there was no reward for completing them other than an achievement (I think). F1 is supposed to simulate a Formula season or seasons. A circuit racer sandbox, like FM, should let the player do whatever they want whenever they want IMO

It's too difficult to get a good race with the current free play. If you just quick free play it, cars vary from -40 to +40 your car, and even within those ratings the speed differences can vary so dramatically. I was doing advanced freeplay set to the type of car I was driving with a cap of 600 or 700 I forget. For one thing, the start position sucks, if you order by PI and you're at the cap you'll almost always be at the front, and random start position is stupid. Then in the actual race the speed difference in the cars is insane, one race I'm crushing the AI, the next the 1st and 2nd are 10+ seconds ahead and 3rd is 5 seconds behind. Mostly to do with length of straights and car parts. There's also no practice, or test drive before the race.

In FM7 you had nice homologated series where things were generally pretty close. There were lots of them and you could set the race length to Long for nice 30-60 minute races. There was an option to test drive before the race started.

The "Sandbox" is just too many options to make things unfun. This is exactly why I don't play AC. Leave it in if people like it, but there should be a plethora of good defaults.

I never played FM7 career (only the demo for a few minutes) so I can't really comment on that game.

Anyway, we're kind of talking about two different things here. What you're saying is that you don't like the single player racing because of the AI. Fair enough, but if we transplanted the career mode of FM7 or FM4 the racing wouldn't be any different if the AI is the same.

Ignoring the AI issue, the reason I like free play in FM23 and not AC, as example, is because there are enough cars that are close enough in performance (stock) to fill out a grid.

Thought experiment. If the AI was great would free play be enough in lieu of a dedicated career mode?

[spiralyguy]

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

I never played FM7 career (only the demo for a few minutes) so I can't really comment on that game.

Anyway, we're kind of talking about two different things here. What you're saying is that you don't like the single player racing because of the AI. Fair enough, but if we transplanted the career mode of FM7 or FM4 the racing wouldn't be any different if the AI is the same.

Ignoring the AI issue, the reason I like free play in FM23 and not AC, as example, is because there are enough cars that are close enough in performance (stock) to fill out a grid.

Thought experiment. If the AI was great would free play be enough in lieu of a dedicated career mode?

No. It's not just the AI, though that doesn't help things. It's the homologation of the cars in free play. Like why can't I race the multiplayer Spec GT3 races, but against AI? Just those tracks, just those cars, just those car configurations. It's the starting position in advanced free play. It's the lack of practice/test drive. It's the lack of qualifying. It's the lack of progression and record keeping. I want to play for a year and look back and see a bunch of things completed.

The current career mode doesn't seem to care about you winning or not, just that you completed the series. Winning only gets a tiny little gold trophy in the corner of a box that's going to disappear in a month and be forever forgotten anyway.

The advanced setup has a lot of options, but that's a double edged sword. Many times I've started an advanced race and gotten a couple laps in only to realize I'd messed up a setting and have to restart.

Locking down cars with options like max rating or max horse power doesn't flow well. So say I wanna race my Mazda RX-7, i pick it in cars, I go advanced free play, crap I don't remember the rating, I certainly don't remember the Horsepower. And even if you do lock it down, you pull Le Mans as your random track and the cars with no aero parts automatically win.

There are so many examples of races being ruined, but I'll give just one more. You pull random variable conditions, a medium length race. Half way through it starts raining. Everyone on race tires has to pit, anyone not on race tires doesn't. It swings the race so badly based purely on car setup.

Many games have this fundamental issue: The problem with lots of options is that most options are the wrong option.

[clairvoyantwolf]

Fair enough. So, what do you propose instead? It seems like you want more control in free play, while not wanting more control. Other than that a stat tracker for a curated list of races?

[Gepards]

agree, i don't like this live service Forza Motorsport game, but driving/racing is fun though.
More single player content!!!

[spiralyguy]

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

Fair enough. So, what do you propose instead? It seems like you want more control in free play, while not wanting more control. Other than that a stat tracker for a curated list of races?

A copy paste of the Forza 7 career as a bare minimum would be ok. Lots of good defaults, homologated cars, choice of race length, test drive before race. Trophies. I don’t understand why we got a career downgrade.

A more detailed career would be nice but I’d take that as a starting point.