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Also, I noticed each series in the open seems to be 3 races instead of 4, but yea there is more of them.
Completely agree with spiralyguy here. Sounds like a non win for you, if they didn't you'd probably complain that there's nothing to do.
You can guarantee the length and amount of these tours is driven by a study on how much people are willing to tolerate to get these cars. Any less tedium than this is leaving peoples playtime on the table, and any more tedium than this would make people stop bothering. And that sucks by design. Im willing to bet the Car XP system was calculated in a similar way, and its why you dont get banned for AFK-exploiting it. Game time is all that counts.
If it was designed "from the ground up" to be fun, we could even have community-created tours replicating famous championships or disciplines or whatever and an infinite amount of content. But we dont have that, because people would not keep logging in every week for it.
Im complaining regardless, because we could have a campaign thats triple the size of this one currently, but we dont because they prioritised these FOMO mechanics. This is worse for everyone, even if you dont care about time-limited content.
The problem is, when I do want to play again, I sure would like to drive the CLK GTR. I literally checked the car announcements months before launch to see what we were getting and this car was on my "why havent we seen that yet?" list.
Personally I just pay for all the extras and only play multiplayer. I'm just not interested in racing against bots or any sort of grind. So the game as it stands for that purpose is perfect, bare bones racing, I love it.
I guess my point is, this is what happens when studios sell out and are put in the hands of those with profits is all that matters mindset. So yea.. play time is all that matters. A lot like mobile gaming, more play time, more ads, more profit. Try to make the best of what we have, because we really don't have any other options that compete with what Forza (or GT) offer.
The game IS way better than it was at launch. Who knows, maybe another year or two.. lol
Rumor has it, a bunch of the og Forza devs have kicked off their own open world racing project, outside of the Microsoft umbrella, to make with they think the game should have always been. I'm interested!
I think you need to take it easy bro.
Thank you for reminding me why I never liked the GT series.
GT is relevant because T10 was heavily influenced by GT’s game play design from the very beginning. GT (and all racing games) was descended from the arcades which were literally designed to extract money from the player to keep playing for more than a few minutes. Then with the consoles content was gated off to lengthen playtime and defeat players experiencing all the game during, say, a weekend rental. Now games are designed to sell subscription services.
My personal preference is for companies to extend play time by making great games that people can’t stop playing…but if it were that easy everyone would do it. Much like with cliffhanger end tin movies, tv shows, and books, people hate them but they keep getting used because they work.
This FOMO "timed accessibility" is also a way to artificially inflate player numbers by placing desirable or unicorn cars behind a timed wall, which is just one step behind "here have some c**p cars for free but if you wanna win races? Pay the piper..."
In this case it's "If you want your dream cars, grind like mad between the nth and nth dates or miss out...".
Sadly this game has left such a bad taste in so many mouths people are, have been and continue to walk away.
Plenty of games don't ask you to grind to get what you want, buy the game, own the cars get in the cars and go racing.
Sure there's DLC cars you DO have to pay for but typically you'll get the entire class bundled together instead of the worst of the bunch "free" and the better cars behind a pay wall.
Likewise with tracks, your fav tracks cost extra and you get booted from MP sessions unless you pay up.
There's at least ONE game out there that won't do this, instead opting to let players HAVE access in order to promote sales of the DLC tracks as they ARE locked from single race, test day and time trial modes, hell they're not even blocked from single player championships either.
Yet the blindfolded Sheeple refuse to see ANY this and blithely walk right into the slaughter house, instead manufacturing excuses or when someone tries to educate them cry "If you don't like it why are you still here commenting???"
"Trying to get my £100 back so I can use it to get a decent WORKING game elsewhere and to MAYBE save some Sheeple from the abattior by opening their eyes to the truth...!"
"Whuuuut?"
"A Sphincter says whut!"
"Whuuut? I still don't get it....?"
"Sigh....."
TBH more of these sheeple need to watch "They Live" and "Idiocracy" problem is they'd just see both as funny movies good for a giggle and not draw the parallels between fiction and reality, then again what hope is there when 90% the sheeple share their half a brain cell with a Ginger Cat and routinely cry "THIS IS FINE!" whilst the house burns down around them...
Nothing is completely “built from the ground up.” It is a marketing phrase nothing more.
Of course I can say that GT has influence on FM because any competent human being would look at what others have done in the same sphere to inform their decisions. The FM series has been running long enough that they will also look at their own history to try to figure out what works and what doesn’t.
Historically FM has ALWAYS been more open than GT (as I said earlier, that is why I hate GT). The only real “grinding mechanic” in FM23 was the car XP system, which was largely removed. The event cars are more related to the unicorn cars from past FMs. I personally never cared for unicorn cars, but I’m sure they increase player engagement. Unicorns were introduced all the way back in FM3, if I remember correctly. It’s nothing new and I the current system is more generous than some past FMs.
Take something mundane and dress it up. Give it a new name to make people think it’s different from what it actually is. That is the story of the Ford Mustang vs the Falcon. The Mustang was one of if not the fastest selling cars in history.
Many on these forums decry standard marketing and business practices like any of this is new. It’s fascinating really. “Built from the ground up,” ha.
Here’s the real deal. Game cost more to make because the player base expects the latest wiz bang graphics, physics, and AI while also not wanting to pay more than historical prices despite inflation and increasing production costs. Nintendo saw the writing on the wall and has purposefully designed their hardware to a lower spec to reduce costs. Microsoft ran to a subscription service. Unfortunately for them no one in the entertainment space other than Netflix has been able to pull off sustainable long term profits, even Disney is unsuccessful in this sphere.
And much like TV shows have returned to episodic content to stop viewers binge watching the show and dropping their subscription. Game design is changing to keep players playing the game so players stay subscribed.
Ultimately if you don’t like it you have two choices. Give up the wiz bang graphics, physics, and AI…a la Nintendo. Or pay more for the product.
(The hidden third option of course is to accept exile and enjoy old games)
Built from the ground up is exactly what we were told though, in itself this implies the game was built from the ground up and that ground is in fact the now 20 year old ForzaTech game engine. Yet many of the car models were ripped straight from previous games and T10 have even admitted as much.
Just as many games used the ISIMotor engine or variants of it then build on top of that ground level.
Codemashers has been using their "ground" called the Ego engine since Race Driver Grid in 2009. They're now on V4.0 of that engine.
Regardless of what ground you build on garbage in = garbage out.
Yeah they removed the car XP grinding but you STILL have to grind for cash to buy cars.
You still have to grind when they tell you to to receive certain cars which are then locked off from those who didn't or couldn't grind at that specific time.
All can be considered predatory tactics as they're predating on your time and, at a time that suits their need to inflate player numbers.
This is part of the reason player numbers increase after an update and then fall (though many are coming back to see if their particular bug has been fixed and leave again when they see it's not been fixed).
This is why player numbers are pretty consistently lower then ever right before each major update.
ROFLMAO!!!
I'm FULLY aware costs to make games go up as does the cost to buy, this is the nature of increased complexity in modern games.
Why else do you think they use "Game engines"??
To speed up production of titles..
Yet it STILL does NOT excuse the state of this s***show we've been handed.
The player falling numbers, p**s poor player reviews and legitimate criticisms both here and on Forza Forums clearly point to this even though yourself and others will repeatedly cherrypick stats based purely on monthly peak player numbers and scream "SUCCESS" instead of examining how the weekly, daily numbers fall lower than ever before right in time for the next monthly update.
Then you start clutching at straws and biased data to try an prove your individual fallacies..
Good for you, you've succeeded in falling for the trap...
I’m not defending these people. I’m describing why and how a wolf hunts and kills a deer. You are the one ascribing morality to predatory behavior. That the wolf (T10 in this metaphor) uses certain tactics to eat (get paid) is not an “evil” act as neither would continue to exist otherwise.
Before the game came out I said that progression systems in sim games was stupid and a relic of old game design. But just like if you run from a wolf it will hunt you down and kill you because they are hardwired to do so. Most game players are hardwired to expect certain game design elements in particular genres even if those aspects of game design are to their detriment. Game companies continue to use them because they work, even if the player base complains.
As you said FM uses the same predatory progression system as GT. Wolves don’t hunt the exact same as lions but the ultimate purpose and method is the same. Design a chair “from the ground up” and it will still look broadly the same as any other because all chairs need to fit a human ass. See now why it’s a stupid marketing phrase.
I disagree, older unicorn cars were:
A) Less desirable and less "mandatory" than the current reward cars. Locking the CLK GTR away vs the Shelby Mustang in FM4, they are incomparable when the Ford Mustang was still available in that game but theres no replacement to the CLK GTR
B) There is going to be far more limited time cars locked away here than there ever were in past games, if we keep going like this it will end up like Horizons playlist exclusives
C) Actually rare, I dont hate the idea of having completely unique cars only developers could give you, but these are just "play the game right now to get these, or miss out, maybe forever"
The idea is "unicorns are rare in real life so you dont often see them in game either" but it doesnt really hold up though. We keep getting the Aventador J in games, a car that is 1 of 1 and barely even a real Lamborghini, while the Murcielago is now lost to time in FM8? Why not swap those around?