Why is Forza the best casual racing game on the market?

[Asag]

It's simple...

Forza actually works. At least for me. I have zero technical issues, and gameplay on wheel feels 85-90% like real life, at least from my experience with cars that I compared.

It's fun, and race mistakes are not as punishing, so you don't need to alt f4 after 30 minutes of waiting to start the race with a mistake after the first turn.

Online matchmaking in Forza is like the best I have ever seen in any multiplayer racing game. Switching from tune to tune, setting to setting, etc., is fast, seamless and perfectly easy to do.

I never experienced any FPS or LAG drops on Forza, whether in single-player or multiplayer. I never experienced any weird behavior between cars with another players, I can overtake in millimeters.

Of course, Forza has some small issues that I hope will be fixed in the future. But even if not, it is an amazing racing game that I enjoy playing.

[clairvoyantwolf]

Original reply got eaten. Drive by posting to follow.

Originally posted by SRS13Rastus(TTT):

Again with utter horse s**t.
The cars and chassis in FM are all generic with little to no difference other than what settings they put into them.

If the game is so terrible, why not just go play AMS2?

Which is why a race car handles like a frigging boat in stock trim when the reality couldn't be further from the truth.
That's not simplification that's not bothering to do what they specifically stated was done pre-release e.g.

If the game is so terrible, why not just go play AMS2?

"Built from the ground up" An outright lie and an admitted one...
"Full native ultrawide and superultrawide support from day 1" Yet another lie as it looks like complete blurred garbage on ultrawide forcing 200% resolution scaling halving the fps rates. That's NOT native support is it?
"Self trained AI that's done 1000's of laps to be 13 seconds faster than the FM7 AI round maple valley" Yet another lie as the AI can barely keep up and often end up a lap down in less than 5 laps.
All the drift vids but yet, here we are almost a YEAR on from release and no drift cars let alone drag cars. Misleading in the extreme...

Hold this thought

"You got that backwards. You don't like what I have to say because you can't claim the game "doesn't work" when it has worked for me from day one on my below minimum spec potato computer."
"I'm not trying to "get rid of you," I mostly don't post. But when people shout down those who openly say they enjoy the game or state as a fact that the game is complete crap with no redeeming qualities I sometimes decide to step in."

Stop telling those of us with issues to shut up or go away because you don't like or haven't experienced what we have and don't like what we have to say!

I'm not telling you to shut up and go away. I'm asking why don't you go play AMS2 (or something else) if you hate FM so much. Sim City 2013 had a terrible release, arguably worse than FM. Killed the Sim City franchise. I got taken by the prerelease marketing. I couldn't get a refund, but I didn't go complaining on forums. I started playing Cities Skylines instead (as did thousands of others) and forgot about it.

Yet again though that's PRECISELY what you are doing, "it works for me" so we're talking rubbish,

No, I'm applying basic logic.

Whiny shill: "Wah, wah game is broken, doesn't work, can't load. It's a scam!"

Wolf: "How can the game be scam if it works for me? Did T10 program it with selective scamming?"

Whiny shill: "Fine game is not scam, game is bad. X, Y, Z game is better!"

Wolf: "Then why don't you go play X, Y, Z and forget about FM23?"

Whiny shill: "I can't! I need to scream over and over again about how much I hate FM! Then T10 will recognize my pain!"

Wolf: "On a 3rd party forum they may not even monitor? I think you're being emotional."

Whiny shill: "I'm not emotional!"

Our experiences aren't everyone's? NEITHER ARE YOURS, YOU are in the minority that have no issues so STOP TELLING THOSE OF US SUFFERING TO GO AWAY!

Wait? You're suffering because the game doesn't work? The game that you said over and over again is a horrible game? You know, if I eat something I don't like I spit it out and eat something else. I don't keep chewing and chewing while complaining how bad the taste is.

Just like you continually make assessments of other peoples state of mind and gloss over facts with utter twaddle.

Correction: I don't assess people's state of mind I question how someone can have so much ire for a video game near a year after release.

Rational actions have some sort of end goal in mind. If your end goal is a refund...sorry you ain't getting that. If your end goal is to have the game changed into something more your liking why logically would you expect a team that couldn't deliver for you in the first place to be able to deliver after the fact? If they can or can not you already listed games you prefer over FM23...why wait for FM23? However, if the goal is to warn others away from FM23, as I asked before why specifically FM23 and not other "bad" games. I can think of plenty of emotion reasons why such an action can satisfy, but few rational ones. ...But as you said, in between your "suffering" and other "poor me" rhetoric, you're not emotional.

"I prefer to comment on issues I have experience with or direct knowledge of. I make no comment of multiplayer because I don't play multiplayer. Go ahead and look at my post history."

Oh so you KNOW every gamer on the planet do you?

Where did I claim I did. Disproving a statement "the game doesn't work" with simply "the game works for me," I understand it is infuriating because if every other copy of FM23 doesn't work the FACT that the game DOES work for me STILL invalidates the statement. You're jumping up and down because you said "All apples are red" to someone holding a green apple.

Yet you spout s**te like "Give it a rest" or suggest we all "Go away" to people with every right to complain.

No I tell you to go play the games you tell others to go play instead of FM23...then you get mad that you either can't play FM23 or that you don't like the game. Once again, if the game is so terrible, why not just go play AMS2?

Go take a look through the threads again and count up those people with issues and those without..

No go through the threads and see the posters who get shouted down whenever they say anything positive about FM23.

Go take a read of player reviews...

I have a couple hundred hours in the game, I can make my own opinion of it.

Go check the player numbers...

I don't play multiplayer. Whether there are a million players or just myself. It makes no difference to me. I still play Mouse Trap on the Atari. How many people do you think still play that game?

That's what backs up all of us with issues...

If the game is so terrible, why not just go play AMS2?

EDIT:
Better yet I'll save you the trouble, set reviews to most recent....
Of the most recent 40 reviews 15 are positive but with caveats such as....

"The AI penalty system is garbage, specially when there are dirty players in the lobby, making it even worse, however, the feature multiplayer is fun when the lobby is in high rank.

There are much to improve, but it is still the best racing game out there playable in controller."

"if you want to know what its like to finally let the road rage take over this is the game for you. its practically an idiotic driver simulator."
 
"Sorry but even though I have some real life track and motor sports experience, I do not and will not play the Multiplayer. That is an entire different animal and I am staying far away from it. Single player I recommend. Multiplayer I do not recommend."

"The game is good. If you want a pain in the ass, everytime you want to launch it. Because it doesn't. But the gameplay is cool."

"it looks worse than fh5 but it's something"

"Of course, a lot of the issues arise from hiring a bunch of temp workers and cycling through them ever year or so. I don't really know what Microsoft's actual strategy is, but I don't think it is working. Then again, maybe a lot of these studios are getting exposed for their horrible leadership. This should have been a lay up, especially with how Gran Turismo launched. Current day Gran Turismo is fantastic though. If Sony decided to port Gran Turismo to PC, I think it would honestly be a wrap for this game.

Turn 10 has a lot of work to do."

"Game isn't perfect and has it's issues, but the dev's are working through problems and adding to the game regularly. The physics engine is a major improvement over the previous games and trumps the negatives for me."

"I drive"

So even of the 15 positives almost half have caveats or are completely meaningless.
Yet according to your sample size of yourself it's fine?

Expand that to last 60 reviews it gets another 8 positive reviews yet STILL many have yet more caveats.

"Not a Good Sim when it comes to wheel wise, But as an Arcade game with a controller Very good"

"If you are not concerned with online play it is a good racing game."

"I do agree with a lot of the negative reviews, however I've still had a lot of fun with this game. I just wish they'd update this game more."

"Still a bit undercooked but enough content for casual racing. Wheel support and Visuals are getting better."

When even HALF the positive reviews list or hint at major flaws I question the validity of them being positive.

So from 60 reviews a mere 23 are generally positive and only 13 are fully positive, when almost half list many of the flaws and issues people are experiencing and complaining about yet, according to you, we should all just "Give it a rest" and go away.??

Well yeah, why spend so much time and energy on something you hate? Alternatives are out there...though of course none with the focus on street cars like FM. AMS2 (I believe) has a partly six.

[clairvoyantwolf]

Originally posted by SalvaSnake:

Your premise is wrong, because this game is not a "casual racing game". Or at least it has not been conceived as such.
Now, if you are happy with what they have sold us and seeing the game as casual seems enough to you, then honestly, I am happy for you.
Because I feel like I have been deceived. This is not the game that they sold me in the trailers and it is not the game that made me decide to pre-purchase the more expensive version...

I assume this is aimed at me.

And to your post I say cool, it happens. Lots of games I bought that I thought I would like (FH4) that later turned out not to be what I expected in the negative. Thousands of people went to see the movie Titanic thinking it was about a boat sinking.

Anyway, for sake of discussion, I take any racing game that begins races with "Three, two, one, go!" as casual compared to more focused sims like AMS2, ACC, and the like. As I said before I wouldn't get into War Thunder expecting DCS despite the very webpage (just checked) for War Thunder literally saying, "Realistic Military Vehicles Online Combat Game." FM23 is a completely different market from AMS2 and other more serious PC sims. Just like DCS is a completely different market from War Thunder.

[MaChao]

Originally posted by SalvaSnake:

Your premise is wrong, because this game is not a "casual racing game". Or at least it has not been conceived as such.
Now, if you are happy with what they have sold us and seeing the game as casual seems enough to you, then honestly, I am happy for you.
Because I feel like I have been deceived. This is not the game that they sold me in the trailers and it is not the game that made me decide to pre-purchase the more expensive version...

I take it you weren't familiar with the "Motorsport" brand of Forza beforehand?
Because "Motorsport" has always been a sim-racer, while "Horizon" was their arcade racer.
If so, it just goes to show how bad these rebrands can be.
If they kept the 8 at the end, people would be aware that it's part of a series and might look it up.

[[SRS13]Rastus(TTT)]

Originally posted by clairvoyantwolf:

Original reply got eaten. Drive by posting to follow.

Originally posted by SRS13Rastus(TTT):

Again with utter horse s**t.
The cars and chassis in FM are all generic with little to no difference other than what settings they put into them.

If the game is so terrible, why not just go play AMS2?

I do but like you, I have every right to expect THIS POS to work just a s well! As do ALL OF US having problems, which just because you don't have any means we should be quiet about it?
Once again IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!
Once again not answering points raised, evading the issues as per usual!

Which is why a race car handles like a frigging boat in stock trim when the reality couldn't be further from the truth.
That's not simplification that's not bothering to do what they specifically stated was done pre-release e.g.

If the game is so terrible, why not just go play AMS2?

Once again I do but like you I have every right to expect THIS POS to work just a s well!
Once again IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!
Yet again not answering points raised, evading the issues as per usual!
two can play the repetitive game sunshine.

"Built from the ground up" An outright lie and an admitted one...
"Full native ultrawide and superultrawide support from day 1" Yet another lie as it looks like complete blurred garbage on ultrawide forcing 200% resolution scaling halving the fps rates. That's NOT native support is it?
"Self trained AI that's done 1000's of laps to be 13 seconds faster than the FM7 AI round maple valley" Yet another lie as the AI can barely keep up and often end up a lap down in less than 5 laps.
All the drift vids but yet, here we are almost a YEAR on from release and no drift cars let alone drag cars. Misleading in the extreme...

Hold this thought

"You got that backwards. You don't like what I have to say because you can't claim the game "doesn't work" when it has worked for me from day one on my below minimum spec potato computer."
"I'm not trying to "get rid of you," I mostly don't post. But when people shout down those who openly say they enjoy the game or state as a fact that the game is complete crap with no redeeming qualities I sometimes decide to step in."

Again it's not about you and people have every right to complain why are you trying to silence people like us and labelling us as trolls for raising them when they have not been fixed?
See definition of Trolling below..

Stop telling those of us with issues to shut up or go away because you don't like or haven't experienced what we have and don't like what we have to say!

I'm not telling you to shut up and go away. I'm asking why don't you go play AMS2 (or something else) if you hate FM so much. Sim City 2013 had a terrible release, arguably worse than FM. Killed the Sim City franchise. I got taken by the prerelease marketing. I couldn't get a refund, but I didn't go complaining on forums. I started playing Cities Skylines instead (as did thousands of others) and forgot about it.

"Why don't you go play AMS2" "give it a rest" is telling people what YOU think they should do.
So we should all shut up so you can be happy?
Again I do play AMS2, Daily..
That still doesn't change my rights to expect what we were promised from before launch!
This latest effort will kill THIS franchise so what you gonna play on your potato PC to scratch your itch to upgrade and tune your precious ACR???

Yet again though that's PRECISELY what you are doing, "it works for me" so we're talking rubbish,

No, I'm applying basic logic.

Whiny shill: "Wah, wah game is broken, doesn't work, can't load. It's a scam!"

Wolf: "How can the game be scam if it works for me? Did T10 program it with selective scamming?"

Whiny shill: "Fine game is not scam, game is bad. X, Y, Z game is better!"

Wolf: "Then why don't you go play X, Y, Z and forget about FM23?"

Whiny shill: "I can't! I need to scream over and over again about how much I hate FM! Then T10 will recognize my pain!"

Wolf: "On a 3rd party forum they may not even monitor? I think you're being emotional."

Whiny shill: "I'm not emotional!"

"logic
noun
1. reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.
Validity is defined as the “degree to which evidence and theory support the interpretations of test scores for the proposed use of tests” [4]. The evidence needed varies in type and amount based on the intended use of the results."

YOUR evidence is just you...
OURS is that they completely failed to test and optimise the game for hardware they SPECIFICALLY said would have full support from day 1.
Hence the huge number of us you wish would go away and play something else.

"Shill definition: A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with said person or organization, or have been paid to do so."

Which of us is defending a game that HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of people have issues with? So who's the whiny shill???

Our experiences aren't everyone's? NEITHER ARE YOURS, YOU are in the minority that have no issues so STOP TELLING THOSE OF US SUFFERING TO GO AWAY!

Wait? You're suffering because the game doesn't work? The game that you said over and over again is a horrible game? You know, if I eat something I don't like I spit it out and eat something else. I don't keep chewing and chewing while complaining how bad the taste is.

Yeah suffering the problems you choose to ignore because your potato PC works with the lowest settings possible. again see Shill definition above and Troll definition below..

Just like you continually make assessments of other peoples state of mind and gloss over facts with utter twaddle.

Correction: I donv't assess people's state of mind I question how someone can have so much ire for a video game near a year after release.

Yet you assume I'm of a certain state of mind?
Again I have "so much ire" (your assumption) because I expect it to work as advertised, which for myself and many others it doesn't, get that through your head.

Rational actions have some sort of end goal in mind. If your end goal is a refund...sorry you ain't getting that. If your end goal is to have the game changed into something more your liking why logically would you expect a team that couldn't deliver for you in the first place to be able to deliver after the fact? If they can or can not you already listed games you prefer over FM23...why wait for FM23? However, if the goal is to warn others away from FM23, as I asked before why specifically FM23 and not other "bad" games. I can think of plenty of emotion reasons why such an action can satisfy, but few rational ones. ...But as you said, in between your "suffering" and other "poor me" rhetoric, you're not emotional.

End goal? Get the game in a functional state for myself and other players.
Why? So that we can enjoy it in the ways WE choose to play it instead of having to face blurred gfx, constant disconnects, etc etc...
Rational actions are exactly what we're doing, the game DOES NOT WORK FOR MANY so we're demanding it gets fixed.
Whilst you practice transference and call us shills without understanding the definition of the term..
Again WE EXPECT TO RECEIVE WHAT WE PAID FOR a game that f******g works as we were lead to believe it would! Simple as that...

"I prefer to comment on issues I have experience with or direct knowledge of. I make no comment of multiplayer because I don't play multiplayer. Go ahead and look at my post history."

Oh so you KNOW every gamer on the planet do you?

Where did I claim I did. Disproving a statement "the game doesn't work" with simply "the game works for me," I understand it is infuriating because if every other copy of FM23 doesn't work the FACT that the game DOES work for me STILL invalidates the statement. You're jumping up and down because you said "All apples are red" to someone holding a green apple.

Proving or disproving anything based on a sample size of one isn't proof, that's an assumption.
It DOES NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE, yet you imply we cannot be having issues just because YOU don't, making assumptions as per usual based on just your experience and go on to attack or label those of us that DO have issues...

Yet you spout s**te like "Give it a rest" or suggest we all "Go away" to people with every right to complain.

No I tell you to go play the games you tell others to go play instead of FM23...then you get mad that you either can't play FM23 or that you don't like the game. Once again, if the game is so terrible, why not just go play AMS2?

Who the F**K do you think you are telling ANYONE what they should or shouldn't be doing?
You don't like what we're saying? Tough...

Go take a look through the threads again and count up those people with issues and those without..

No go through the threads and see the posters who get shouted down whenever they say anything positive about FM23.

By people with legitimate problems with this POS game...

Go take a read of player reviews...

I have a couple hundred hours in the game, I can make my own opinion of it.

Yet no one else is allowed an opinion based on their experiences???
You acknowledge its just your opinion yet persistently claim thats all the PROOF we should need?
See shill definition again...

Go check the player numbers...

I don't play multiplayer. Whether there are a million players or just myself. It makes no difference to me. I still play Mouse Trap on the Atari. How many people do you think still play that game?

It's not just multiplayer though is it those numbers include people playing single player to or didn't you know that?
We just have to accept the blurred gfx that are EVERYWHERE, missing track surfaces are EVERYWHERE, ♥♥♥♥ AI are EVERYWHERE, etc etc etc....

That's what backs up all of us with issues...

If the game is so terrible, why not just go play AMS2?

Yeah, yeah answered that and again stop telling people what they should be doing...

EDIT:
Better yet I'll save you the trouble, set reviews to most recent....
Of the most recent 40 reviews 15 are positive but with caveats such as....

"The AI penalty system is garbage, specially when there are dirty players in the lobby, making it even worse, however, the feature multiplayer is fun when the lobby is in high rank.

There are much to improve, but it is still the best racing game out there playable in controller."

"if you want to know what its like to finally let the road rage take over this is the game for you. its practically an idiotic driver simulator."
 
"Sorry but even though I have some real life track and motor sports experience, I do not and will not play the Multiplayer. That is an entire different animal and I am staying far away from it. Single player I recommend. Multiplayer I do not recommend."

"The game is good. If you want a pain in the ass, everytime you want to launch it. Because it doesn't. But the gameplay is cool."

"it looks worse than fh5 but it's something"

"Of course, a lot of the issues arise from hiring a bunch of temp workers and cycling through them ever year or so. I don't really know what Microsoft's actual strategy is, but I don't think it is working. Then again, maybe a lot of these studios are getting exposed for their horrible leadership. This should have been a lay up, especially with how Gran Turismo launched. Current day Gran Turismo is fantastic though. If Sony decided to port Gran Turismo to PC, I think it would honestly be a wrap for this game.

Turn 10 has a lot of work to do."

"Game isn't perfect and has it's issues, but the dev's are working through problems and adding to the game regularly. The physics engine is a major improvement over the previous games and trumps the negatives for me."

"I drive"

So even of the 15 positives almost half have caveats or are completely meaningless.
Yet according to your sample size of yourself it's fine?

Expand that to last 60 reviews it gets another 8 positive reviews yet STILL many have yet more caveats.

"Not a Good Sim when it comes to wheel wise, But as an Arcade game with a controller Very good"

"If you are not concerned with online play it is a good racing game."

"I do agree with a lot of the negative reviews, however I've still had a lot of fun with this game. I just wish they'd update this game more."

"Still a bit undercooked but enough content for casual racing. Wheel support and Visuals are getting better."

When even HALF the positive reviews list or hint at major flaws I question the validity of them being positive.

So from 60 reviews a mere 23 are generally positive and only 13 are fully positive, when almost half list many of the flaws and issues people are experiencing and complaining about yet, according to you, we should all just "Give it a rest" and go away.??

Well yeah, why spend so much time and energy on something you hate? Alternatives are out there...though of course none with the focus on street cars like FM. AMS2 (I believe) has a partly six.

Again back at you, why are you trying to silence those of us with issues? Being a SHILL and TROLLING?
Why am I and other here complaining?
Because I expect that games I pay for to f******g work as described. As do others with perfectly legitimate complaints..
Once again you are getting it ass backwards yourself, I loved FM7 FH3, 4 and 5 because they WORKED.
This doesn't work for more people than it does work for hence the now 69% leaving negative reviews.
So I'll throw one of your comments back at you If you're so happy then why are you here objecting to people raising legitimate concerns and problems?
Why not just go and play it instead of wasting your time here trying to prove a point based on only YOUR experience and trying to shout down people with LEGITIMATE complaints?
You got nothing better to do troll?
And before you go there.....

"What is trolling? Trolling is when someone posts or comments online to 'bait' people, which means deliberately provoking an argument or emotional reaction. In some cases they say things they don't even believe, just to cause drama."

We provide evidence and proof?
You try provocation and getting all defensive and ignoring any proof handed to you, ergo, stop being a troll and a shill...
You tell us to go play something else and just accept this POS?
You tell us to give it a rest?

Who's the troll and shill?

[T10_Gul]

Guys I'm locking this thread because it's just people fighting. It's okay to be frustrated when you're experiencing bugs in the game, in fact it's understandable. We're here for the long run and will be constantly improving on this game so stick around and let's all be friends, only foes on the track

Check out our latest update to see the bug fixes we just released.