60 FPS lock in multiplayer is a joke

[Notorious]

Seriously.

[Targonis]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cokefish (shrillby):

I'll tell you right now, anybody who does not have a 144 Hz+ Gaming Panel and an RTX graphics card does not realize how huge an advantage it is when gaming. That doesn't mean we should all send ourselves back to the stone age. We need to progress as a society and keep moving our standards and our expectations forward.

When dealing with things that actually move in a realistic way, the benefits of higher frame rates go down significantly, because you will be limited to seeing things with human limitations in mind. Yes, you might be able to SEE or perceive things quicker, but how will that allow you to go beyond what a human could actually do? So, you see the accident, and are aware of the details as you are about to die while still being unable to react quickly enough to prevent it from happening is how I look at it.

[WhispersOfTheWind]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Targonis:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cokefish (shrillby):

I'll tell you right now, anybody who does not have a 144 Hz+ Gaming Panel and an RTX graphics card does not realize how huge an advantage it is when gaming. That doesn't mean we should all send ourselves back to the stone age. We need to progress as a society and keep moving our standards and our expectations forward.

When dealing with things that actually move in a realistic way, the benefits of higher frame rates go down significantly, because you will be limited to seeing things with human limitations in mind. Yes, you might be able to SEE or perceive things quicker, but how will that allow you to go beyond what a human could actually do? So, you see the accident, and are aware of the details as you are about to die while still being unable to react quickly enough to prevent it from happening is how I look at it.

It's not about reacting faster but rather about fluidity of movement like the (game) "feel" that high frame gameplay brings about if that makes sense to you. There is no point in advocating lower frames unless you are fine with it in which case I think that's simply archaic, like. If you are fine with it, good. But don't expect everyone to hold onto that. Having higher frames does not make you better like to react faster but it does improve the experience and comfort at which the game is played and perceived.

People who have an advantage (of again miliseconds like tenth or huderth of a second) in Forza Horizon 5 aren't racing better because they have high frames, they race like they would basically with lower frames but it's the game itself that makes them be faster due to some reason which apparently has to do with the game engine and the way it calculates phsyics, or whatever.

Point is we shouldn't all lower our standards for fair play, rather, the issue needs be fixed. Throwing us in the same boat nullifies our investment into high end gear and this way makes the purchase obsolete, which is just ridiculous.

I didn't forfeit an arm and a leg and a kidney for this ♥♥♥♥♥.

[ST Ry]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Targonis:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ST Ry:

Lol @ 60fps is acceptable.

This is PC, the whole point is to be able to use whatever hardware you have and to cater to an open platform. Just because your POS rig won't even run 60fps doesn't mean others should care.

Anyone thinking restricting PC settings that have been commonplace for years is an idiot. Seriously go back to console.

Try going 4k, where even a RTX 4090 can make it a challenge in some games to hold 60fps. Shouldn't be a problem in racing games, but there's a difference between the cards that NEED FSR/DLSS to make games playable and those that can handle it without.

Ah ok?

[Cokefish]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Targonis:

...the benefits of higher frame rates go down significantly, because you will be limited to seeing things with human limitations in mind.

Human limitations are not set in stone. With higher refresh rate displays, you are increasing those human limits in your favor. They have even been installing high refresh displays in smartphones, devices most do not use for gaming. But everyone agrees that these displays are pleasing visually.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Targonis:

Yes, you might be able to SEE or perceive things quicker, but how will that allow you to go beyond what a human could actually do?

An extremely misguided statement. To perceive things quicker is to act on them quicker.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Targonis:

So, you see the accident, and are aware of the details as you are about to die while still being unable to react quickly enough to prevent it from happening is how I look at it.

An accident is not a single point of time. It is a culmination of billions of events. At 60 Hz, events can only render a single frame in about 0.017 seconds. That's enough time for a crucial event to be missed. Mitigating that loss of information is trivial for a high refresh rate monitor. Buy one today.

[ST Ry]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cokefish (shrillby):

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Targonis:

...the benefits of higher frame rates go down significantly, because you will be limited to seeing things with human limitations in mind.

Human limitations are not set in stone. With higher refresh rate displays, you are increasing those human limits in your favor. They have even been installing high refresh displays in smartphones, devices most do not use for gaming. But everyone agrees that these displays are pleasing visually.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Targonis:

Yes, you might be able to SEE or perceive things quicker, but how will that allow you to go beyond what a human could actually do?

An extremely misguided statement. To perceive things quicker is to act on them quicker.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Targonis:

So, you see the accident, and are aware of the details as you are about to die while still being unable to react quickly enough to prevent it from happening is how I look at it.

An accident is not a single point of time. It is a culmination of billions of events. At 60 Hz, events can only render a single frame in about 0.017 seconds. That's enough time for a crucial event to be missed. Mitigating that loss of information is trivial for a high refresh rate monitor. Buy one today.

Mate you're arguing with the ignorant here it's a complete waste of your time.

If someone is too dense to be able to look up the effects of higher refresh what are they even doing on PC? I've provided one such statement below so they can read it and just gtfo.

"The content may look steady on the display, but what the viewer can't see is how fast the content is changing — up to 360 times a second(on a 360hz panel). The higher the refresh rate, the smoother the visual quality."

If you can't understand this concept head back to a 30fps console.

[General Brasch 🎖]

The 60 FPS limit is not only made because of consoles, but the main reason is more FPS - faster car. Because of the spaghetti code of the game engine, players who have more FPS drive a lap faster than players who have less FPS. The difference in lap time between 240 FPS VS 30 FPS can be 1.5 - 2 seconds. There is no exact reason why this happens, but the developers most likely failed to fix this bug and decided to take a shortcut, in the form of limiting FPS to 60. I don't care, 60 is more than enough for a comfortable gaming experience.

[sebo]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boris ☭:

The 60 FPS limit is not only made because of consoles, but the main reason is more FPS - faster car. Because of the spaghetti code of the game engine, players who have more FPS drive a lap faster than players who have less FPS. The difference in lap time between 240 FPS VS 30 FPS can be 1.5 - 2 seconds. There is no exact reason why this happens, but the developers most likely failed to fix this bug and decided to take a shortcut, in the form of limiting FPS to 60. I don't care, 60 is more than enough for a comfortable gaming experience.

I think we've already established the reason for the cap [their crappy game engine]
but it doesn't change the fact that there is no reason for it because there are plenty of other factors at play that may give someone an advantage in the game including having a better internet connection, better hardware (computer, wheel, etc).. so to cap everyone fps to be the same and claim "fairness in multiplayer" is just a cover up the reason why the cap is really there [their broken crappy engine].

[ST Ry]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boris ☭:

The 60 FPS limit is not only made because of consoles, but the main reason is more FPS - faster car. Because of the spaghetti code of the game engine, players who have more FPS drive a lap faster than players who have less FPS. The difference in lap time between 240 FPS VS 30 FPS can be 1.5 - 2 seconds. There is no exact reason why this happens, but the developers most likely failed to fix this bug and decided to take a shortcut, in the form of limiting FPS to 60. I don't care, 60 is more than enough for a comfortable gaming experience.

I think you're making stuff up.

How could you possibly know the lap times will be different on an unreleased game? Remember they allow unlimited fps in single player so you're saying my lap times will be 2 seconds quicker in single player die to fps?

Blatant lies.

[General Brasch 🎖]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ST Ry:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boris ☭:

The 60 FPS limit is not only made because of consoles, but the main reason is more FPS - faster car. Because of the spaghetti code of the game engine, players who have more FPS drive a lap faster than players who have less FPS. The difference in lap time between 240 FPS VS 30 FPS can be 1.5 - 2 seconds. There is no exact reason why this happens, but the developers most likely failed to fix this bug and decided to take a shortcut, in the form of limiting FPS to 60. I don't care, 60 is more than enough for a comfortable gaming experience.

I think you're making stuff up.

How could you possibly know the lap times will be different on an unreleased game? Remember they allow unlimited fps in single player so you're saying my lap times will be 2 seconds quicker in single player die to fps?

Blatant lies.

The reason is simple - the game engine core. There is no reason for developers to create a completely new game engine. They modify the existing engine, adding new features to it or improving the old ones. But the core remains the same and sometimes it is extremely hard to rework or it takes too much time and resources. Since Forza's engine is good, it does all the necessary functions, why redesign it from scratch? Therefore, I am sure with 105% probability that the core engine has not been changed, only refined (such as improving the physics simulation and increasing its refresh rate). Let's assume that Forza Motorsport 7 uses v4 of the game engine, and Forza Horizon 5 v 4.5 .I even know that the developers tested innovations in the game engine in Forza Horizon 5. There are new features such as Ray Tracing. And new to Forza cars had a different suspension behavior. So, the developers tested new engine features to introduce them in the upcoming Forza. And that's a smart decision. According to this, Forza motorsport will use not V4.5 but V 5.0 version.
Some things have been fixed and improved, but not all, and the bug with FPS tied to vehicle speed has likely not been fixed. And maybe it can't be fixed so easily without breaking something or without having to rebuild the whole core of the game engine. And the only solution to make everyone play on equal terms is to limit FPS. There is no other reason to limit FPS. If FPS would not give an advantage, why limit it?

[ST Ry]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boris ☭:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ST Ry:

I think you're making stuff up.

How could you possibly know the lap times will be different on an unreleased game? Remember they allow unlimited fps in single player so you're saying my lap times will be 2 seconds quicker in single player die to fps?

Blatant lies.

The reason is simple - the game engine core. There is no reason for developers to create a completely new game engine. They modify the existing engine, adding new features to it or improving the old ones. But the core remains the same and sometimes it is extremely hard to rework or it takes too much time and resources. Since Forza's engine is good, it does all the necessary functions, why redesign it from scratch? Therefore, I am sure with 105% probability that the core engine has not been changed, only refined (such as improving the physics simulation and increasing its refresh rate). Let's assume that Forza Motorsport 7 uses v4 of the game engine, and Forza Horizon 5 v 4.5 .I even know that the developers tested innovations in the game engine in Forza Horizon 5. There are new features such as Ray Tracing. And new to Forza cars had a different suspension behavior. So, the developers tested new engine features to introduce them in the upcoming Forza. And that's a smart decision. According to this, Forza motorsport will use not V4.5 but V 5.0 version.
Some things have been fixed and improved, but not all, and the bug with FPS tied to vehicle speed has likely not been fixed. And maybe it can't be fixed so easily without breaking something or without having to rebuild the whole core of the game engine. And the only solution to make everyone play on equal terms is to limit FPS. There is no other reason to limit FPS. If FPS would not give an advantage, why limit it?

What you're saying is entirely speculation, no official information has been given. You use the words likely and maybe a lot which suggests you're just making up whatever you want. You don't know the facts but act like you do lol.

Also surely Microsoft has the resources to overcome a technical limitation that other games with a fraction of the budget can.

Single player has an unlocked frame rate and I'd put money on it that there will not be a 2 second difference between multiplayer laps and a single player lap like you've tried to say. Also the game is unreleased so everything you're saying is nonsense, how can you know the details of an unreleased game?

Please stop straight up lying and just rolling with your head cannon.

[General Brasch 🎖]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ST Ry:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boris ☭:

The reason is simple - the game engine core. There is no reason for developers to create a completely new game engine. They modify the existing engine, adding new features to it or improving the old ones. But the core remains the same and sometimes it is extremely hard to rework or it takes too much time and resources. Since Forza's engine is good, it does all the necessary functions, why redesign it from scratch? Therefore, I am sure with 105% probability that the core engine has not been changed, only refined (such as improving the physics simulation and increasing its refresh rate). Let's assume that Forza Motorsport 7 uses v4 of the game engine, and Forza Horizon 5 v 4.5 .I even know that the developers tested innovations in the game engine in Forza Horizon 5. There are new features such as Ray Tracing. And new to Forza cars had a different suspension behavior. So, the developers tested new engine features to introduce them in the upcoming Forza. And that's a smart decision. According to this, Forza motorsport will use not V4.5 but V 5.0 version.
Some things have been fixed and improved, but not all, and the bug with FPS tied to vehicle speed has likely not been fixed. And maybe it can't be fixed so easily without breaking something or without having to rebuild the whole core of the game engine. And the only solution to make everyone play on equal terms is to limit FPS. There is no other reason to limit FPS. If FPS would not give an advantage, why limit it?

What you're saying is entirely speculation, no official information has been given. You use the words likely and maybe a lot which suggests you're just making up whatever you want. You don't know the facts but act like you do lol.

Also surely Microsoft has the resources to overcome a technical limitation that other games with a fraction of the budget can.

Single player has an unlocked frame rate and I'd put money on it that there will not be a 2 second difference between multiplayer laps and a single player lap like you've tried to say. Also the game is unreleased so everything you're saying is nonsense, how can you know the details of an unreleased game?

Please stop straight up lying and just rolling with your head cannon.

Ok, if you want to prove me 100% wrong, then run the tests yourself after the game is released. Take one car, drive 20 (50 for more accurate results) laps around the track with limited FPS at 60, record the average lap time, then do the exact same test on the same car, but with FPS over 120 frames (lower the graphics settings). After that you will be able to say with 100% probability whether I am right or wrong. Personally, I will check it myself.

[ST Ry]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boris ☭:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ST Ry:

What you're saying is entirely speculation, no official information has been given. You use the words likely and maybe a lot which suggests you're just making up whatever you want. You don't know the facts but act like you do lol.

Also surely Microsoft has the resources to overcome a technical limitation that other games with a fraction of the budget can.

Single player has an unlocked frame rate and I'd put money on it that there will not be a 2 second difference between multiplayer laps and a single player lap like you've tried to say. Also the game is unreleased so everything you're saying is nonsense, how can you know the details of an unreleased game?

Please stop straight up lying and just rolling with your head cannon.

Ok, if you want to prove me 100% wrong, then run the tests yourself after the game is released. Take one car, drive 20 (50 for more accurate results) laps around the track with limited FPS at 60, record the average lap time, then do the exact same test on the same car, but with FPS over 120 frames (lower the graphics settings). After that you will be able to say with 100% probability whether I am right or wrong. Personally, I will check it myself.

What good advice, waiting until the game is actually out before stating it's technical limitations...

You're starting to make some sense now

[Rudi]

i do nt buy it .i test it with gamepass first.i have a 144hz widescreen and i dont want to go back to 60hz.i think they want support the xbox xs with 60hz.if not they can limited to 120hz for the xbox x .its a big differece if you run a game with 60 or 144hz.

[GMC79]

Not really any excuse to have 60fps lock in MP, FH5 doesn't have any and that is cross play so why did they do it? a server thing or what?

[ST Ry]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von GMC79:

Not really any excuse to have 60fps lock in MP, FH5 doesn't have any and that is cross play so why did they do it? a server thing or what?

It's BS whatever the reason. Anyone who's advocating that it's a good idea either has a POS rig or is a simp lol