Why are LMGs and MGs not full-auto?

[Feuerfuchs]

I've played a lot of realistic shooter games with similar mechanics but why devs? Why are the MGs firing as slow as rifles? I mean you can fire faster by spamming left click but why didn't you remove the joy of having fast firing MGs? It won't change the pace of the game. The firing speed will be a buff and a nerf because of the ammo capacity. I am really disappointed with the MGs they feel like high capacity semi-auto rifles that you can only shoot while you're prone with a bipod.

PS: If anyone who has a good understanding and knowladge could explain because this is mind-boggling to me. How did the devs forget to make the Machine guns(the terror of the war, the reason for intrenchment) fully-automatic(fast firing)?

[Feuerfuchs]

I have proof for the firing rates of all the MGs in the game:
1 - Lewis gun - https://youtu.be/edbDa9knxwE?t=340
2 - BAR - https://youtu.be/g2jRwp19csA?t=296
3 - MG 08/15 - https://youtu.be/Y3XTPWnV2rw?t=119
4 - MG 15 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBOElnytfzw
5- Chauchat - unfortunately due to real life reasons this MG can't fire more that 3 rounds without jamming or having an extraction failure and you can't see it firing more than 2 bullets

[Yuithgf]

YOU DONT INSULT THE CHAUCHAT YOU LITTLE ♥♥♥♥

[Yuithgf]

For real though, the original chauchat was a correct weapon despite its modern reputation.

Thanks to the magic of the internet i was able to found back some answers to pétain's 1917 survey for french weapons, and even though the chauchat had problems it was noted by almost all companies as a very good weapon defensively and a correct/mediocre offensive weapon.

the problem was the american version that was chambered in incorrect dimensions and jammed for literally no reason and the poor desactivation of the original chauchats in the US that led to it having a lot more problems than it should have (which explains why in the USA it has such a poor reputation).

the part of the survey i was able to find back:
"16th Infantry Regiment:

...The CSRGs have been used to defend conquered trenches and have made a major contribution in breaking counter-attacks; walking fire was not used.

Several guns functioned normally and gave excellent service; a few had stoppages what were nearly all caused by deformations of the magazines at the lips.

19th Infantry Regiment:

...The CSRG has been used in the offensive, where its handling is difficult, and in the defensive where it very effectively played the role of machine guns.

...Obtained results were very satisfactory, particularly in the defensive. Observed problems: when it is raining and the terrain is muddy, the CSRG becomes dirty and fouled and a certain number of these guns are put out of action.

34th and 49th Regiments:

...After having given excellent results during the actions of May 4 and 5, by intense flanking fire, these weapons were less effective because of stoppages, in spite of all the precautions. It is necessary that this weapon should be cleaned and oiled during combat...

Also, since the Assistant Gunners are overloaded, one of the riflemen should help transport the ammunition.

62nd Infantry Regiment:

The CSRG teams are overloaded; the men have difficulty keeping up. The Backpacks and the ammunition should be carried by carts or mules.

The CSRGs magazine is not solid enough and often malfunctions.

64th Infantry Regiment:

Very effective in the defensive, for flanking and direct fire.

In the offensive, walking fire is used in approaching the position.

The weapon has given entire satisfaction; several thousand rounds have been fired between April 19 and 30, 1917.

The following two problems have been observed: the lips of the magazine become deformed, giving feeding stoppages, and the cartridge guide rod breaks at its rear extremity.

65th Infantry Regiment

...The magazine spring often fails... A protection system is needed to keep dirt out of the radiator ventilation holes on the barrel housing.

The current gun cover does not protect the gun sufficiently against rain and dust.

93rd Infantry Regiment

Excellent weapon in the hands of well-trained men. Nevertheless the magazines need to be improved, for the lips are too weak and are the source of stoppages.

98th Infantry Regiment

It has been used by the assault companies during the April 13 attack. A company that progressed through the hamlet of La Biette brought down a lot of the enemy while firing on the walk...

105th Infantry Regiment:

These weapons gave full satisfaction. Only the magazines are defective.

116th Infantry Regiment:

They are only exceptionally to be used as offensive weapons, but present considerable advantages for the stabilization of new lines that have just been conquered.

Too many stoppages during walking fire.

Carrying the CSRG and its Backpack are the source of much suffering by the men...

137th Infantry Regiment:

The CSRGs expand the action of the machinegun sections; they must be pushed forward as much as possible. Their deployment in combination with groups of V-B rifle and hand grenadiers, which provide them with cover, have given excellent results.

From the material viewpoint, necessity of great care and cleanliness and of oiling after 5 or 6 magazines.

9th Infantry Division:

Results: the CSRG has excelled in all circumstances of combat.

Disadvantages: becomes fouled and prone to stoppages in contact with mud and dirt projections.

12th Infantry Division:

Excellent results were obtained. The fire of the CSRGs during the night counter-attack of May 5-6 has contributed to a large degree to the failure of the German assault.

All were convinved after repeatedly seeing whole enemy ranks brought down in front of our trenches by the fire of the CSRGs."

[Yuithgf]

also about your post, its likely a bug. ive seen a person with that bug once in a post, i dont think the devs are aware of it.
the only automatic weapon with a lower rate of fire than IRL is the MP18 as far as i know

[Feuerfuchs]

Originally posted by Yuithgf:

also about your post, its likely a bug. ive seen a person with that bug once in a post, i dont think the devs are aware of it.
the only automatic weapon with a lower rate of fire than IRL is the MP18 as far as i know

Actually, no since in all of the clips I sent the firerate is light years away from the firerate in the game. My question is why? Oh and the Chauchat isn't a bad idea just it was made to work in conditions which were not acceptable. It required to be cleaned often but American and British soldiers were not familiar with the design thus they couldn't keep the gun clean and it got a bad reputation of jamming. The American version was rushed because the US joined the war late and underarmed and they couldn't rely on the french to supply both armies with enough ammo for the ongoing war. This action of the US military is what inspired John Browning to actually come up to a design for the US troops which used either the .308 and a A2 model which used the US standard 30-06 round of the Spirngfield M1903. Any way thanks for the history lesson and the possible cause of the issue.

[Yuithgf]

Originally posted by Lawrance of Arabia:

Actually, no since in all of the clips I sent the firerate is light years away from the firerate in the game. My question is why? Oh and the Chauchat isn't a bad idea just it was made to work in conditions which were not acceptable. It required to be cleaned often but American and British soldiers were not familiar with the design thus they couldn't keep the gun clean and it got a bad reputation of jamming. The American version was rushed because the US joined the war late and underarmed and they couldn't rely on the french to supply both armies with enough ammo for the ongoing war. This action of the US military is what inspired John Browning to actually come up to a design for the US troops which used either the .308 and a A2 model which used the US standard 30-06 round of the Spirngfield M1903. Any way thanks for the history lesson and the possible cause of the issue.

yeah, my bad, MGs in verdun seem a little slower after testing. thought you had the slowdown bug because you talked about ''high capacity semi-auto rifles'' which is a little over the top.

for what you say about the chauchat, id answer first of all it was mainly used by french troops who knew what they were doing with it (did the british even use chauchats at all? im not sure, unlike the usa they had their own MGs).

but an important point i forgot was that the chauchat wasnt great, but the germans rarely had better.
forget late-war SMGs like the MP18, the main ''light'' machinegun used by the germans in ww1 was the MG08/15.

it had twice the rate of fire of the chauchat, but it also weighted twice as much and was half as common.
LMGs in ww1 werent very good, people tend to forget it but the lewis had some jamming problems too. the chauchat wasnt great, but it wasnt supposed to be: it was supposed to be mass-produced quickly and fill a lot of roles.

[Yuithgf]

im doing some testing RN. lewis seems at the right fire rate, but the BAR and hotchkiss seem to have lower rates of fire.
for the MG08/15 im not sure; if i remember well most of these guns have been modified after ww1, so... idk.
will test more MGs now.
madsen: too slow
chauchat 15: seems correct
chauchat 18: correct too
MG08/15 seems corret.

[Yuithgf]

also the MP18 is too low but someone already made a post

[Bran Mak Morn]

Originally posted by Lawrance of Arabia:

4 - MG 15 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBOElnytfzw

that's the WW2 luftwaffe MG15 though. as far as i can tell, there's no video of the bergmann MG 15 n.A. on youtube.

[Yuithgf]

thats not the video i used to compare speed

[Dezztroy]

The French Chauchat worked fine as long as you got one of the good magazines. The Americans screwed up with their .30-06 conversions which is why theirs were much less reliable.

https://youtu.be/HIFv8XUBB2o?t=405

[Yuithgf]

exactly. i think the chauchats in american cartridges were manufactured by the french though, and lack of communication between the french/americans lead to it being chambered in incorrect dimensions (though im not 100% sure).

anyway, the 30-06 chauchat got a reputation so terrible so fast that US soldiers sometimes refused to go into battle with it and threw it away. it has been used mainly to train AEF soldiers which also helped giving the name ''chauchat'' the reputation it has today.

(according to forgotten weapons and if my memory is right) out of the factories, they were tested by firing 3 mags (48 bullets, mags were smaller than french version) on a shooting range, yet half of them got rejected.

[paraitakeni]

https://youtu.be/xnKy_BSOZys?t=306

chauchat shooting @ 5:15

[Yuithgf]

thanks for that. the chauchat seems to have the same ROF in verdun as IRL though, i checked it.

also, i know we already got a sound rework that made each gun sound a little more unique (except for the browning FN gun, whose orgasmic sound will forever be missed) but dammit when i hear that i kinda wished the guns sound in game had a little more impact.

well, maybe im asking for too much, every month i report 10 bugs suggest 20 balancing modification and 30 map/gameplay changes.