Man they really gutted every collab

[Zero Hour 17]

Damage output feels so much weaker. I wish the changelog said by how much the damage was lowered but it feels like a good 25%.

[Tiny Timmy Tokyo]

I don't even play with items

[Omnipotencia]

Origineel geplaatst door Dranikos:

Origineel geplaatst door Zero Hour 17:

It's literally in the changelog that all collabs were nerfed. And I'm winning just fine, it just feels way way way worse and less enjoyable to play.

Absolute Wall
Eldritch Horror
Ring of Fitness

These 3 collabs were all increased in damage. So not All collabs were nerfed. (all outside these 3 were, that's true though). The standouts like Broken Dreams, Dragonfire, Flattening Board and MiComet were, yes. Because they were bad for the longterm health of the game. For later stages to be a meaningful challenge with the way things were (where it was possible and easy to make a +20 Dragonfire doing thousands of damage per hit, and spamming out dozens of hits per second), enemies would have needed billions of HP. To preserve the longterm health of the game, standouts for damage were brought down to a more reasonable level. Meaning actual build strategy matters a bit more now.

Dragonfire for example, didn't actually lose damage directly. (It's still 3 to 7 base damage a hit, 4 shots every 0.05s. That's 80 shots a second for the record). Instead the projectile lost the infinite piercing it had and a nerf to multishot weapons brought it down. Specifically Anvils. Previously, when you upgraded a weapon with an Anvil for +2 damage (+3 with the Blacksmith Glasses), it added that flatly to EVERY HIT of the weapon (so Dragonfire here would become 5-7 per hit, 4 shots per 0.05s, still 80 shots per second) NOW Anvils divide their damage bonus by the number of hits (so Dragonfire will gain +0.5 per hit per anvil upgrade. 3.5-7.5 for +1, and at +20 it would be 13-17 per hit. Down from 43-47 before the update).

This Anvil change makes it so that anvils have an equal effect on ALL weapons (a single hit weapon gets +2 damage. A multihit gets +2 / number of hits). Evening up the playing field and balancing the game out beyond "get Dragonfire, anvil Dragonfire, win game".

Origineel geplaatst door Omnipotencia:

and this patch is just meh glasses was nerfed so you cant level to much cause the added coat but you wouldnt want to put both those items in your build anyways so its like eh dunno if yagoo scale harder since i havnt tried proper runs but from my irys run it feels like it,

i would love to know the idea behind all the nerfs and changes to make more sense of it all

as said in another post though could just be to early and need to figure things out, hopefully that's the case

Glasses weren't nerfed, they were BUFFED actually because they were a weak item to take.

Glasses just barely break even on a Stage Mode run for most characters (that is, you spend 5 levels getting them, and that works out to like 7 total levels of extra EXP, so you get 2 additional levels that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise).

Glasses gained the "Every level after picking up this item gives +0.3% damage" effect to make them actually worth grabbing. The EXP bonus of 10-30% is the same as it was in 0.5

oh my bad i thought glasses was 40% before an was nerfed to 30%, i have discovered that candy is the new item to have on everyone though seems to be why base weapon damage was reduced overall

[Dlanor]

Origineel geplaatst door RobDeLaMorte:

Probably all of this discussion could be avoided if we had some kinda "Golden Egg" thing like Vampire Survivors has. Just make it an optional toggle like Hardcore mode and that it doesn't show runs with it active on leaderboards. With infinite scaling people could still prat around and have their favourite weapons OP again, rather than feeling like they're being shoehorned to certain builds.

Edit: And obviously you'd need to drastically lower gold income with it active too. -3-

Golden egg is one of the worst game design decisions ever made. Holocure doesn't have it on purpose, if they wanted it they wouldn't have capped G Rank.


If you're not good enough to beat stage 1 with a maxed shop, then just use cheat engine to give your characters unlimited HP. They don't need to ruin the game balance.

[RobDeLaMorte]

Origineel geplaatst door Totopo:

Origineel geplaatst door RobDeLaMorte:

Probably all of this discussion could be avoided if we had some kinda "Golden Egg" thing like Vampire Survivors has. Just make it an optional toggle like Hardcore mode and that it doesn't show runs with it active on leaderboards. With infinite scaling people could still prat around and have their favourite weapons OP again, rather than feeling like they're being shoehorned to certain builds.

Edit: And obviously you'd need to drastically lower gold income with it active too. -3-

Golden egg is one of the worst game design decisions ever made. Holocure doesn't have it on purpose, if they wanted it they wouldn't have capped G Rank.


If you're not good enough to beat stage 1 with a maxed shop, then just use cheat engine to give your characters unlimited HP. They don't need to ruin the game balance.

Worst? It literally gives more grind to do for the people who want to do it.

Do you do anything in this forum but defend Kay Yu's every breath, Totopo?

[LGear]

Origineel geplaatst door RobDeLaMorte:

Origineel geplaatst door Totopo:

Golden egg is one of the worst game design decisions ever made. Holocure doesn't have it on purpose, if they wanted it they wouldn't have capped G Rank.


If you're not good enough to beat stage 1 with a maxed shop, then just use cheat engine to give your characters unlimited HP. They don't need to ruin the game balance.

Worst? It literally gives more grind to do for the people who want to do it.

Do you do anything in this forum but defend Kay Yu's every breath, Totopo?

Grind is only good if it has a point to it (hell not even Kaela grinds pointlessly, it's always in service to a particular goal). Why would people want pointless grind?

Also, "shoehorned to certain builds" is funny considering that's what the previous iteration of the game felt like. With this update, every choice suddenly feels viable again, and I can do hard maps even with an unoptimized loadout as long as I'm not making stupid decisions.

[Simplejet]

Origineel geplaatst door Big Kusa Time:

They added super collabs and some other stuff to compensate. Final result is mostly the same.

To all the people who are saying that super collabs are a justification to the collabs being nerfed, I have one question, Why? There are hardly any super collabs in the game right now and you are forced to only pick one. How does nerfing most of the collabs in the game justify having 1 super collab in your build. Half of the super collabs hardly do anything different from just having the weapon and item separately in your build. The fact that 17 collabs got nerfed just because 4 of those collabs have a "super" variant doesn't add up for ♥♥♥♥. On another note shouldn't the collab weapons have just remained at where they were before this patch in order to make up for the only and I mean ONLY super collab that you can take. This on top of players should be incentivized to want to go super since the collab felt enjoyable beforehand. I am not saying collabs should be buffed into facemelting insta nukes, I thought they were just fine in patch 0.5, I am just saying they shouldn't have been touched just because 4 "super" collabs exist. In my opinion the collabs shouldn't have been nerfed nor buffed and super collabs should have just been added. If I had to play fair the collabs like dragon fire, elite cooking, ice sake, and idol concert should have been the ONLY ones that were nerfed, not most of the roster.

[Simplejet]

Origineel geplaatst door RobDeLaMorte:

Origineel geplaatst door Totopo:

Golden egg is one of the worst game design decisions ever made. Holocure doesn't have it on purpose, if they wanted it they wouldn't have capped G Rank.


If you're not good enough to beat stage 1 with a maxed shop, then just use cheat engine to give your characters unlimited HP. They don't need to ruin the game balance.

Worst? It literally gives more grind to do for the people who want to do it.

Do you do anything in this forum but defend Kay Yu's every breath, Totopo?

That's what I'm feeling reading Totopo's posts. Also has this man ever suffered genshin's artifact system, that's the worst game design decision in my opinion.

[Dlanor]

Origineel geplaatst door Simplejet:

That's what I'm feeling reading Totopo's posts. Also has this man ever suffered genshin's artifact system, that's the worst game design decision in my opinion.

Genshin's artifact grind has a cap on how strong you can get, so the game stays relatively balanced.

Golden Egg is one of the worst game design decisions ever made because it completely removes balance. A player that has won 1000 runs does not need the game to be even easier on the 1001st. All of the best replayable roguelikes are the ones where the game unlocks harder gameplay over time, not easier gameplay over time. I'm talking about stuff like Slay The Spire or The Binding of Isaac. Holocure is close to that camp too, because even with shop upgrades the later stages get far more complex and difficult. I'm not sure why Debbie Downers are pretending Golden Egg has anything to do with Kay Yu, either, because it doesn't.

You guys can keep using ad hominems but they aren't a replacement for an argument. Any time someone says "wow this guy is defending the game" instead of even trying to prove me wrong, it just makes it obvious you know I'm right deep down.

[RudiAn]

as far as i goes, i think this version is emphasize leveling up.

glasses with additional attack damage per level up
beetle with additional skill attack damage per level up
super collab with the requirement being level 50

so yeah, in my opinion, rush level up is the main meta in this version

[Dranikos]

Origineel geplaatst door Omnipotencia:

oh my bad i thought glasses was 40% before an was nerfed to 30%, i have discovered that candy is the new item to have on everyone though seems to be why base weapon damage was reduced overall

you were probably comparing level 5 Glasses vs the Super Glasses item (which was, and still is, a 40% bonus)

[Toxi The Vagrant]

Hi, could someone direct me to where I can find the changelog that's been mentioned a few times?

More on topic, I haven't felt too dramatic a change in player power overall, though I do think that some enemies, particularly in stage 4, are particularly more tanky than they should be for early on (the sushis with their 60 HP as soon as minute 1 comes to mind...) It's not something I particularly mind too much, because I'm guessing it's balanced around us already having Gatchikoi going in, but I'm not necessarily sure the "recommended upgrades" under it's stage listing is fully accurate.

[AnonTwo]

Origineel geplaatst door RobDeLaMorte:

Origineel geplaatst door Totopo:

Golden egg is one of the worst game design decisions ever made. Holocure doesn't have it on purpose, if they wanted it they wouldn't have capped G Rank.


If you're not good enough to beat stage 1 with a maxed shop, then just use cheat engine to give your characters unlimited HP. They don't need to ruin the game balance.

Worst? It literally gives more grind to do for the people who want to do it.

Do you do anything in this forum but defend Kay Yu's every breath, Totopo?

I mean I got bored of Vampire Survivors after the golden egg release. At some point it removes identity from the characters once the stat balances are gone, and makes it really unfun to play characters you haven't applied golden eggs to because the stat difference becomes too significant.

Sure you can turn off the eggs, make rewards regarding not using the eggs, but then the content just clashes with itself and it doesn't feel like there's a reason to play when eggs are turned on,

Also not sure what the dev has to do with this. Golden Egg or variants aren't even in most games, it's just in Vampire Survivors.

Why? There are hardly any super collabs in the game right now and you are forced to only pick one. How does nerfing most of the collabs in the game justify having 1 super collab in your build.

Because you're not getting just the super collab. You're getting a super collab, 3 collabs, and one normal weapon.

Vs previous patch where you were getting 4 collabs and 1 weapon.

The balance isn't super collab by itself vs collab by itself. It's the final builds.

The new final builds and their routes are more complex and have more depth than the 4 collab 1 weapon builds of the previous patch.

[Simplejet]

Why? There are hardly any super collabs in the game right now and you are forced to only pick one. How does nerfing most of the collabs in the game justify having 1 super collab in your build.

Origineel geplaatst door AnonTwo:

Because you're not getting just the super collab. You're getting a super collab, 3 collabs, and one normal weapon.

Vs previous patch where you were getting 4 collabs and 1 weapon.

The balance isn't super collab by itself vs collab by itself. It's the final builds.

That is true, however when you are forced to decide on only one super collab shouldn't the base collabs be at least left at where they were in order to not feel to degrading before the super collab? The super collab should be a fun addition when, in my opinion, they barely do anything too ridiculous compared to the base collab and item. I know you can beat a stage with nothing but regular collabs and you don't need super collabs, however, some people keep saying that these are the endgame instead of the base collabs from before, but when you are forced to take one slightly enhanced collab shouldn't the rest of the collabs feel a bit closer to the endgame instead? I like the concept behind super collabs however I just can't consider them the big focus when you can only take one, there aren't enough right now, and they don't do enough to justify being the only one in your build. What I am saying is that I feel, in my opinion, super collabs shouldn't be restricted to one super. I know that game design can be about limited choices, however, shouldn't there be at least a little bit of freedom in a vampire survivors style game. I want to point out that when brotato went into it's 1.0 patch there were a lot of welcoming buffs and a few nerfs to the point where I could say that patch was the mirrored opposite to this patch. I don't mind too much if the collabs that had super variants had been the only ones to be nerfed, if I had to be fair, but when the devs nerf 80% of the collabs that were in the game, with most of them not having a super to compensate, as well as buffing some and adding some new base collabs on top of the previous list, it feels a little bit like being told to wade through mud to get a hose instead of playing in the rain and finding a big puddle to splash in. I could do it easily and have some fun by the end, but I wouldn't have as much fun as before.

Origineel geplaatst door Toxi The Vagrant:

Hi, could someone direct me to where I can find the changelog that's been mentioned a few times?

Here is the changelog for ya. https://holocure.fandom.com/wiki/Changelog

[RobotCat]

Origineel geplaatst door Omnipotencia:

Origineel geplaatst door Harkmagic:

I don't get where someone could call this update hard at all. First one I played was Ollie on stage 4 and just grabbed whatever to see how things played and ended up basically invincible before the 10 minute mark. I did end up dying, but that was because I wanted to test how invincible she was and grabbed Injection Type Asacoco and completely ignored the fact that it does damage. It still took another 2 minutes for it to kill me. The other ID girls are also crazy good. The fully upgraded old characters were so powerful stage 4 felt like Stage 1 Normal.

its easy just disappointing when favourite characters get butchered, irys can barely do solo weapon runs mumei might also be in the barely zone to but other characters forget about it the solo stamp nerf crushes alot of characters solo weapon runs i know cause i did most characters solo weapon runs and there were many times i was hoping for the solo stamp to drop to get enough damage to clear the rest now no chance, there are other items in the game sure but now every run is just gonna be tank heal build, its easier safer it works and hasnt been nerfed, until it is, its like yeh the new characters are op if not even more op than old characters, why nerf old characters? its the case of i did play other characters but now the overnerfs crush them am just gonna go back to the op gura tank build and beat everything with gura meanwhile mumei fans get hit and most likely whoever is op this patch that is at the top of people saying op all the time will get hit like mumei.

vampire survivors never nerfed anything cause these games are yeh am strong satisfaction, heres options to make things harder if you want them, this game nerfs stuff makes the characters go from fun to unfun,

ive felt it from the first big patch sadly when they changed the health things and you were unable to survive yagoo making endless 30min

2nd big patch kinda fixed things allowed the solo weapon runs

and this patch is just meh glasses was nerfed so you cant level to much cause the added coat but you wouldnt want to put both those items in your build anyways so its like eh dunno if yagoo scale harder since i havnt tried proper runs but from my irys run it feels like it,

i would love to know the idea behind all the nerfs and changes to make more sense of it all

as said in another post though could just be to early and need to figure things out, hopefully that's the case

Try some of the new items/foods/stamps before you judge. Irys is absolutely broken with the new Paint Stamp. WIth it equipped I can kill any boss in 2 seconds as long there are enough fans around. Cleared Stage 3 Hard first try solo weapon with it on Irys (the final bosses took a bit longer since they don' spawn with a lot of fans so had to wait for fans to trickle in but once there were enough fans they died in seconds).

[Ichai]

Origineel geplaatst door Zero Hour 17:

Origineel geplaatst door The Face:

That weaker feeling was a reliance on broken combos which he can only fix on major releases. Also super collabs go brrr.

Also I chuckle at how much the Irys method got hit. now people will play Irys because they want to, and not to farm a million coins before each patch release

I want broken collabs. I'm not looking for challenge, I want to no thoughts, head empty grind to wind down after work.

I get where you're coming on this, but in 0.5 I was at the point where I'd for real start dozing off after the 10 minute mark. The music and repetitive actions would send me straight to sleep once main weapon and first collab were done.