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Yes, but I can't imagine Gaia is very pleased about it.
Odin returned in 1977.
That's not during the events of Apocalypse.
I think you're focusing on the wrong issue here. The point is that Odin, a 4th generation Gangrel who's clan is iconic for their survival skills and savage ferocity was defeated three times by the Get of Fenris.
Your entire premise is "defeat a strong thing = success". But defeating Odin not only achieves literally nothing in the grand scheme of things, he also isn't dead and there is no guarantee that this slight inconvenience of a Garou who can't even reach him right now will ever actually manage. He was "defeated" 3 times, but apparently the Cult of Fenris goes by the motto 4th time's the charm!
Your entire fanboy argument for Cult of Fenris boils down to you thinking they are the cool strong wolves who don't bother with any intelligent or social behaviour so they must deliver results, you consistently ignore all their flaws and canonical issues and tout achievements that aren't real achievements.
I will tell you what is actually going on here. The Cult of Fenris are a bunch of musclebrained morons barely more sustainable than Red Talons. They had n*zis in their ranks and while you can pretend that they were "cleansed", the truth is that a puritan might-makes-right ideology will always lead to fascism. There entire concept is that they consider themselves the only pure Garou and it's no surprise that nobody likes them or wants to work with them when they can't stop ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ up, betraying smarter Garou and having no long term plan. Many alternate end scenarios have shown the Cult becoming exactly like the Black Spiral Dancers. That is not something you want as your beacon of hope.
No, the Cult of Fenris is NOT the best shot Gaia's forces have or EVER had. They were always set up to fail. Adapt or die. And damn do I hope the Cult dies.
When your whole tribal identity is "We just fight and might is right" when that attitude is a significant reason why the Garou nation has declined and the Apocalypse is so much closer.
The world has moved on, humanity has changed the game and those serving the Wyrm play a little smarter (most of the time) than "♥♥♥♥ it we ball lets rush them and murder everyone on sight" and now Fenris is playing right into the enemies plans, such a single minded ideology (regardless if it is tainted by nazis or else in a pack/sept) is not good enough anymore.
Does that mean every other tribe are the greatest thing ever? No but Fenris went too far off the deep end and turned against everyone.....the lone wolf always dies.
The Get of Fenris aren't the ones in charge of the Garou Nation... the Silver Fangs are.
And the SIlver Fangs are so blindly arrogant, that they genuinely believe the position of rulership is theirs by divine right. When their own totem commanded them to relinquish their power after being allowed to rule for 7 years, they refused to do so.
And when their totem warned that they would be punished with madness for refusing to follow orders, the tribe welcomed it, so long as they got to remain in charge.
The Garou Nation is being lead by a tribe of despotic aristocrats, who voluntarily chose to go insane, rather than pass the reigns over to somebody else once their term had expired.
That is, in fact, the point.
You're the one acting as if the Get of Fenris are the perfect Garou when in fact they're as flawed as everyone else, and the whole Swords of Heimdall incident wasn't in any way meant to be interpreted as some freaky aberration but the natural result of a tribe whose entire thought process is as complex as 'me strong, me best'.
No, it wasn't. The Get don't believe they're strong because they're descended from Nordic stock, they believe they're strong because they kick the ass of anything they pick a fight with. And if you demonstrate the same capacity for ass kicking as they do, they will treat you with respect, regardless of pedigree.
Once again, there is a Star Gazer fighting in the Amazon Rainforest, whom the tribe actually has good opinions on, because he's out there putting those martial arts skills of his to use. Instead of sitting on his mountain contemplating life.
If the Get of Fenris were nationalists, it was to the Garou Nation. They were a tribe of wolf supremacists, not racial supremacists. When they found out that one of their camps had bought into the ravings of a human pseudo-scientist, they were furious.
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I already stated that I don't believe the Get of Fenris are perfect. I said that I consider them to be "the best of a bad situation."
No mercy no compromise just does not work when the situation has changed.
The Apocalypse has only gotten worse and NONE of the tribes have the whole correct answer.
The tragedy of the Garou is that they are up against the wall fighting foes who have adapted to the changing world, have twisted humanity into their weapons of war (both weaver and wyrm) and none of the tribes have a clear vision that everyone can agree on.
Fenris got sick of the games and refused to compromise or adapt and decided that they will either win the war alone or die trying.......and the entire Garou nation is weaker for it.
I honestly think the Glass Walkers have the best idea of how to win - Humanity needs to be involved more on the Garou side as well, money/connections and resources are needed to match the overwhelming power of the corrupted corporations and governments and to help preserve the last bastions of the wild for the Caerns and even the Lupus.
But then you might be playing far too close to the Weaver and risking everything on a knifes edge.
I agree the situation has changed, but it was precisely because of the other tribes carrying on in the way that they did that allowed the situation to reach that point in the first place.
If the Garou had struck earlier and ended the problem in its infancy, it never would have progressed to the state it's in now.
With that perspective in mind, the tribe's frustration is perfectly understandable.
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Plus, remember when I said the other tribes had been compromised? Well, yeah, turns out that both the Silver Fangs and the Star Gazers had / have camps among their tribes that fell to the corruption of the Wyrm.
In fact, the Star Gazers went one step further and actually made THE WYRM one of their patron totems. Not a Wyrm spirit, not a Fomori agent; no, they swore fealty to the full on Wyrm itself! Something which not even the Black Spiral Dancers are crazy enough to do!
And their explanation for why they did this, is that the Star Gazers believe The Wyrm can still be healed from its madness and restored to its original purpose.
You can repeat this forever but you're still completely wrong.
The lore of werewolf the apocalypse makes it very obvious that it is COMPLETELY impossible for the Garou to have ever prevented this situation from occurring, because the Garou are not the right tools for the job. The Impergium accomplished exactly one thing: It drove humanity into the arms of the Weaver, who gave humanity the secrets of forging silver, and resulted in the Garou being massacred.
If the Garou had struck earlier - pick a point, any point - all it does is accelerate the process of humanity turning to the Weaver and proceeding down the path to the modern WoD.
Yes, I know. And you're still wrong. They're no better or worse than any other Tribe. They're stuck fighting a losing battle with methods that won't work instead of thinking of ways to adapt.
Here's how werewolf Dark Ages discusses the Impergium:
"The Garou descended upon the human settlements at night, slaying humans at their whim. While this savagery served to keep the human population steady, it also ensured that the humans hated and feared the werewolves. This fear eventually drove them to find dread allies. The Wyrm readily accepted humans who sought power. The first undead and dark sorcerers rose to power, and these godlike entities could slay even Gaia's Chosen. They offered humans protection from the monsters..." "...The Impergium changed humans. They no longer wished to live in harmony with nature. They wanted vengeance against it..." "... Werewolves had driven humans to the enemies of Gaia."
The setting AS WRITTEN makes it very clear that the Garou's methods were part of the problem and could never be the solution.
I believe you seem to have misunderstood the point in history at which I am suggesting the impergium be carried out. I'm not talking about a period in which human civilization was already up and running. I'm talking about exterminating humanity before their numbers increased to that point.
Knowing how to do something, and actually having the means to do so are two completely different scenarios.
It doesn't matter if Weaver gave the secrets of forging silver to neolithic humans. Without the tools for mining ore, and the forge used to smelt it, that knowledge is rendered useless for them.
Back then, the most advanced armor humans had at their disposal was made out of cloth and hide, while their most advanced weapons were sharpened rocks tied to sticks. Weaver would have had to spontaneously manifest that technology out of thin air before the humans could actually use it.
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Also, I want to repeat that the Silver Fangs, the tribe appointed to the role of Garou Nation royalty, had a camp that was secretly enthralled by the Wyrm and were deliberately sabotaging the war efforts.
When the Red Talons finally got the bright idea to actually use Sense the Wyrm on the camp and found out they had been double agents the entire time, they flipped their ♥♥♥♥ and slaughtered them. Then the Silver Fangs swept the whole incident under the rug and denied it ever happened.
Except the Garou aren't the only creations of Gaia who endorse the Impergium.
The Ratkin were specifically created for the purpose of culling humanity's numbers and keeping their population under control. Which they accomplished by spreading pestilence and disease.
Being hunted down to near extinction during the War of Rage crippled their activities for a while, but they seem to have made a full recovery by this point. Now if only humans didn't use that recovery window to develop modern medicine...
The Ratkin didn't endorse the Impergium. They think the Impergium was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid.
The Ratkin do things their way. The subtle way. The Garou didn't like that and decided to do the Impergium because the Garou want to do everything their way and anyone who dares do anything different is wrong.
In fact, the Ratkin lore says they were SUCCEEDING in controlling human population up until the Garou decided they knew best and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ everything up.
I'd hesitate to call a changing breed who are so excessively violent that even the Red Talons are telling them to chill out 'subtle' when it comes to their methods of waging war.