The Tribal Options...

[GrandMajora]

Are not looking good, if I'm being honest. I mean, we get to pick from:


Children of Gaia = Tree hugging, pacifist hippies, who don't seem to understand the very reason for why the Garou exist in the first place.


Bone Gnawers = Disgusting, filth encrusted hobos, who rummage around in people's garbage, and maintain their population by crossbreeding with wild dogs.


Silver Fangs = Incompetent aristocrats, who maintain the purity of their sacred bloodline through multiple generations of incest.


Glass Walkers = Fools who have abandoned the Wyld, and opened themselves up to corruption by the Weaver.


Shadow Lords = The Werewolf Illuminati, who in the event that they were to usurp their position, would objectively be more qualified leaders than the Silver Fangs.


Honestly, with a lineup like that, it seems like Shadow Lords are the best option to go with out of the bunch, because the rest of them are a total disgrace.

[edge_braak]

What else do you want?

Black Furies (available through DLC BTW): Violent misogynist hypocrites who are LITERALLY CANONICALLY being tainted by the Wyld

Fianna: Oirish stereotypes who have corrupted ancient Garou custom with modern Oirish ones.

Red Talons: Near-definitionally worthless and justifiably going extinct. Also rapidly falling to the Wyrm.

Silent Striders: Nobody cares about the Silent Striders.

Stargazers: Left to join the Beast Courts

Uktena: Nobody cares about the Uktena.

Wendigo: Even fewer people care about the Wendigo.

Get of Fenris: Boorish losers who think 'me big me strong' is the be-all end-all of Garou existence

The game already includes two of the best choices (Bone Gnawer - the only tribe not going extinct, and Shadow Lords - specialists in Getting ♥♥♥♥ Done) with an outsider choice of Silver Fang (good at getting Garou working together, at least)

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by edge_braak:

What else do you want?

Black Furies (available through DLC BTW): Violent misogynist hypocrites who are LITERALLY CANONICALLY being tainted by the Wyld

Fianna: Oirish stereotypes who have corrupted ancient Garou custom with modern Oirish ones.

Red Talons: Near-definitionally worthless and justifiably going extinct. Also rapidly falling to the Wyrm.

Get of Fenris: Boorish losers who think 'me big me strong' is the be-all end-all of Garou existence

The game already includes two of the best choices (Bone Gnawer - the only tribe not going extinct, and Shadow Lords - specialists in Getting ♥♥♥♥ Done) with an outsider choice of Silver Fang (good at getting Garou working together, at least)

Red Talons and Get of Fenris would honestly be great choices, especially since one of the character sheet bars has "humans must pay" on it.

Auspices came from Luna, not Gaia.

The Garou were created to be Gaia's warriors. Not her diplomats, not interpreters, not her healers; they were created to fight and kill in her name. So the Red Talons and the Get of Fenris are the two tribes who are the most closely in line with fulfilling the purpose Gaia intended for them.

The responsibility of being a healer, diplomat, philsopher, est. belonged to other changing breeds like the Bears, Crocodiles, Bats, Spiders, est. And many of those breeds were exterminated during the War of Rage.

[edge_braak]

The Red Talons are literally falling to the Wyrm. They're about as close to fulfilling Gaia's purpose as the Black Spiral Dancers.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by edge_braak:

The Red Talons are literally falling to the Wyrm. They're about as close to fulfilling Gaia's purpose as the Black Spiral Dancers.

Correction: Griffin is close to falling to the Wyrm. But since Red Talons worship him like he was the second coming of Jesus, they end up going crazy alongside him in one of the Apocalypse scenarios.

Been watching lore videos by Galliard Group, and they shed some much needed light on the situation. Apparently, Gaia is not the peaceful, loving mother we've all been lead to believe. Her plans for the world are just as detrimental to humanity as Wyrm and Weaver.

Which is to say, Gaia wants to boot Humanity as a civilization all the way back to the neolithic era, and she wants to keep them there forever. Never allowing them the chance to advance or develop beyond the stone age.

Anybody who claims that Humanity's capacity for advancement is part of their nature are deluding themselves. Tools and technology were given to them by The Weaver; Gaia had nothing to do with that.

------------------

It's because of this plan, that Gaia has been 100% completely on board with the Impergium, and it is also why she did not intervene to punish the Garou for their actions during the War of Rage.

Gaia does not want peaceful coexistence with Humans. She wants their cities torn down, their population culled, and their technological achievements reduced to molten slag.

So, once again, Red Talons and Get of Fenris are the tribes closest to fulfilling Gaia's desire for the future. The other tribes who accuse them of being too blood thirsty and barbaric have lost sight of their intended purpose.

[edge_braak]

The Red Talons are - again - going extinct. They're powerless. They have no capability of even coming close to 'fulfilling Gaia's desire'.

The Get of Fenris have fallen away from Gaia entirely.

So if they're the ones 'closest to fulfilling Gaia's desire for the future' then she's as deluded as they are. That vision isn't going to happen. It's literally impossible.

[Wraith]

Originally posted by edge_braak:

What else do you want?

Black Furies (available through DLC BTW): Violent misogynist hypocrites who are LITERALLY CANONICALLY being tainted by the Wyld

Fianna: Oirish stereotypes who have corrupted ancient Garou custom with modern Oirish ones.

Red Talons: Near-definitionally worthless and justifiably going extinct. Also rapidly falling to the Wyrm.

Silent Striders: Nobody cares about the Silent Striders.

Stargazers: Left to join the Beast Courts

Uktena: Nobody cares about the Uktena.

Wendigo: Even fewer people care about the Wendigo.

Get of Fenris: Boorish losers who think 'me big me strong' is the be-all end-all of Garou existence

The game already includes two of the best choices (Bone Gnawer - the only tribe not going extinct, and Shadow Lords - specialists in Getting ♥♥♥♥ Done) with an outsider choice of Silver Fang (good at getting Garou working together, at least)

Note: Most of this isn't even correct anymore. The game's based in W:TA 5e, where things have been rewritten fairly significantly. The Furies are no longer all female.
The Fianna are the Hart Wardens now, and not as much of a celtic stereotype. The Get are the Cult of Fenris, still open neo-nazi white (as in nordic/germanic bloodline aka their kinfolk) supremacists as they always were, but who've broken with the rest of the Garou because nobody else wanted to speed up the Apocalypse to die in glorious battle. The Stargazers are replaced by the Ghost Council, and the Uktena are gone, rolled into the Wendigo as the Galestalkers.

You can catch up on the changes here: https://wta.paradoxwikis.com/Werewolf_The_Apocalypse_Wiki

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Wraith:

The Get are the Cult of Fenris, still open neo-nazi white (as in nordic/germanic bloodline aka their kinfolk) supremacists as they always were,

Gods damn it, The Swords of Heimdal were ONE sub-set of the Get of Fenris, and they were exterminated BY THEIR OWN TRIBE, who denounced their belief in racial supremacy as being corrupted by human ideologies.

If anybody within the tribe attempted to revive the SoH, they were immediately killed on the spot once the Get discovered them.

[Wraith]

Yeah, I think they got brought as an antagonist as a reaction to how badly the guys running White Wolf at the time ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up with VTM 5e. You know, the bit where they made neo-Nazi Brujah and portrayed Chechen gay purges as a vampire plot. The stuff that got Paradox to effectively shut down New White Wolf.

For those not familiar: https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/13/17565898/vampire-the-masquerade-white-wolf-neo-nazi-accusations

[Kuraokami]

Folks need to recall we're dealing with the 5e versions of the tribes. Some of their more Troublesome aspects are removed. For example, the Black Furies are now about seeking just for the oppressed and downtrodden in general. They welcome men and non-binaries into their numbers.

5e did a lot to remove the "tribe as ethnoculture" aspect of the Garou Nation, now its more "what do you think is the best way to fight the Wyrm? Punish defilers, or protect what little sacred land remains? Push humanity to understand and try to reverse the damage they've done, or subvert the Wyrm's efforts to make them unwittingly destroy what's left by using their own systems against them?"

[The Rickest Rick]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Are not looking good, if I'm being honest. I mean, we get to pick from:


Children of Gaia = Tree hugging, pacifist hippies, who don't seem to understand the very reason for why the Garou exist in the first place.


Bone Gnawers = Disgusting, filth encrusted hobos, who rummage around in people's garbage, and maintain their population by crossbreeding with wild dogs.


Silver Fangs = Incompetent aristocrats, who maintain the purity of their sacred bloodline through multiple generations of incest.


Glass Walkers = Fools who have abandoned the Wild, and opened themselves up to corruption by the Weaver.


Shadow Lords = The Werewolf Illuminati, who in the event that they were usurp their position, would objectively be more qualified leaders than the Silver Fangs.


Honestly, with a lineup like that, it seems like Shadow Lords are the best option to go with out of the bunch, because the rest of them are a total disgrace.

As a child of gaia i just came here to say you have not made a single interesting or compelling argument. Good luck ever getting your get of fenris since they are obvious nazis.

[Wraith]

Originally posted by The Rickest Rick:

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Are not looking good, if I'm being honest. I mean, we get to pick from:


Children of Gaia = Tree hugging, pacifist hippies, who don't seem to understand the very reason for why the Garou exist in the first place.


Bone Gnawers = Disgusting, filth encrusted hobos, who rummage around in people's garbage, and maintain their population by crossbreeding with wild dogs.


Silver Fangs = Incompetent aristocrats, who maintain the purity of their sacred bloodline through multiple generations of incest.


Glass Walkers = Fools who have abandoned the Wild, and opened themselves up to corruption by the Weaver.


Shadow Lords = The Werewolf Illuminati, who in the event that they were usurp their position, would objectively be more qualified leaders than the Silver Fangs.


Honestly, with a lineup like that, it seems like Shadow Lords are the best option to go with out of the bunch, because the rest of them are a total disgrace.

As a child of gaia i just came here to say you have not made a single interesting or compelling argument. Good luck ever getting your get of fenris since they are obvious nazis.

Have been since their very first appearance in 'A Sheep In Wolf's Clothing' in the braided novel 'When Will You Rage' back before W:TA was even out.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Kuraokami:

Folks need to recall we're dealing with the 5e versions of the tribes. Some of their more Troublesome aspects are removed. For example, the Black Furies are now about seeking just for the oppressed and downtrodden in general. They welcome men and non-binaries into their numbers.

5e did a lot to remove the "tribe as ethnoculture" aspect of the Garou Nation, now its more "what do you think is the best way to fight the Wyrm? Punish defilers, or protect what little sacred land remains? Push humanity to understand and try to reverse the damage they've done, or subvert the Wyrm's efforts to make them unwittingly destroy what's left by using their own systems against them?"

Yes, I'm aware that W5 is more of a 'retcon' to the setting, and they even state as much in their book's intro. But seeing as the previous editions of the game are somewhere around 30 years old, it's going to take a while to acclimate to that.

But removing the tribe's more problematic elements seems to have done the game more harm than good.

Galliard Group did a first impressions read through of W5, and the way they presented it, the tribes have effectively lost their sense of individuality. They don't stand out as being unique from each other now, but rather they all blend together as being interchangeable.


Instead of the Black Furies being a tribe of radical feminazi's, they are now the tribe of... Werewolf Brujah. As for these new Furies being champions of the downtrodden and oppressed, I am fairly certain that role was previously served by the Uktena, who's tribe was made exclusively of ethnic minorities.

[edge_braak]

It's cool that Galliard Group have that opinion. What's yours?

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Wraith:

Yeah, I think they got brought as an antagonist as a reaction to how badly the guys running White Wolf at the time ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up with VTM 5e. You know, the bit where they made neo-Nazi Brujah and portrayed Chechen gay purges as a vampire plot. The stuff that got Paradox to effectively shut down New White Wolf.

For those not familiar: https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/13/17565898/vampire-the-masquerade-white-wolf-neo-nazi-accusations

Slight bit of a misnomer there. Brujah in 5th edition CAN be neo-Nazi's, but we should provide context for it beyond that.

In 5th edition, the Brujah are afflicted with a clan compulsion that drives them to rebel against the status quo. It doesn't matter what the status quo is, the Brujah just instinctively has beef with it.

SO, if the status quo is an egalitarian society, where everybody is treated equally, you'll find Brujah advocating for segregation and other such racist ideologies. They do it simply because that flies in the face of what is considered the public norm.

If those Brujah do happen to seize power and implement some kind of fascist regime, the next generation of Brujah will feel compelled to resist them and become freedom fighters.

Thus, the cycle continues, because V5 Brujah have been reduced to rebels without a cause. They believe in nothing, they stand for nothing. They don't care what they're fighting for, as long as they get to fight.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by edge_braak:

It's cool that Galliard Group have that opinion. What's yours?

After spending days listening to them explain the lore of the setting's previous editions, and then having them cover the current edition, I find myself agreeing with them on most parts.

I do like how they removed the whole Metis part of the Litany, though, as I always considered that restriction to be utterly stupid from the onset. Like, your very presence causes humans to go temporarily insane if they witness you doing werewolf things in public. Yet, the Litany forces you to either take a human as your mate, or run around in the woods looking for a feral wolf in heat.

Seriously, that was incredibly stupid. Just let the Garou mate with other Garou and save yourselves the headache / embarrassment.