Insanely high CPU temperatures.

[Fawx]

I'm getting insanely high CPU temperatures (84C) simply on the main menu of the game. If I start playing it goes up to 88C, which is about when my CPU will heavily thermal throttle.
This is hotter than any other game, or stresstest has made my CPU reach.

It's a brand new 7800x3D with a 360mm AIO cooler. It's properly pasted, with quality thermal paste, as I've been building PC's for years. I can't see any reason why it would run this hot. Even doing the Prime95 CPU torture test for over an hour will only reach about 72C. My idle temps are 40-42C. Most games I've played, including Train Sim World 3, and Microsoft Flight Simulator only get my CPU temperature up to around mid 60s.

Full PC specs:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 8-Core Processor (4199.99 MHz)
Memory: 65275 MB (DDR5 6000MHz)
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 11 64-bit (Build 22621.1928)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti/PCIe/SSE2
Graphics Card Memory: 12288 MB

Can someone give me some help? Currently this is completely unplayable with temps like this.

[Felix.AVMP]

The best quick & easy to implement solution which springs to my mind, is to cap the in game framerate, try to apply the following:

Right-clicking on Train Sim in your Steam Library, select "properties" and then "set launch options".
Type into the box: " -FPSLimit = 30" where the "30" is the framerate you want to lock it to (or 60, if you want to).

Other than that, you can try to cap the frequency of your CPU by meddling with CPU power settings, but this can have adverse effect on other games and/or apps.

[Fawx]

Originally posted by Felix.AVMP:

The best quick & easy to implement solution which springs to my mind, is to cap the in game framerate, try to apply the following:

Right-clicking on Train Sim in your Steam Library, select "properties" and then "set launch options".
Type into the box: " -FPSLimit = 30" where the "30" is the framerate you want to lock it to (or 60, if you want to).

Other than that, you can try to cap the frequency of your CPU by meddling with CPU power settings, but this can have adverse effect on other games and/or apps.

The framerate is capped, I locked it to 60. Not really sure how to cap the frequency of the CPU without causing system stability issues.

[Felix.AVMP]

It is difficult to advise anything in paricular, but you should check your BIOS and its settings, there were some BIOS updates recently for the X3D line (it is likely, that you have it already, but it cannot hurt to make sure) and also, you can try to set the BIOS to more conservative settings, when it comes to turbo boost (which may or may not be possible to do).

Other than that, the only thing that comes to my mind, is to use Ryzen Master software and try to toy with the process and power allocation etc.

Also, does this happen always and in every TSC version?
Or does it happen in specific version in particular (it is not a solution per se, but it may hint, where exactly is the problem hidden).

[Fawx]

Originally posted by Felix.AVMP:

It is difficult to advise anything in paricular, but you should check your BIOS and its settings, there were some BIOS updates recently for the X3D line (it is likely, that you have it already, but it cannot hurt to make sure) and also, you can try to set the BIOS to more conservative settings, when it comes to turbo boost (which may or may not be possible to do).

Other than that, the only thing that comes to my mind, is to use Ryzen Master software and try to toy with the process and power allocation etc.

Also, does this happen always and in every TSC version?
Or does it happen in specific version in particular (it is not a solution per se, but it may hint, where exactly is the problem hidden).

It happens in all three versions of TSC. 32 bit, 64 bit and 64 bit DX12. My bios is updated yes, I only built the PC last week, so everything installed is the latest version. Double checked every driver.

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by Fawx:

Originally posted by Felix.AVMP:

It is difficult to advise anything in paricular, but you should check your BIOS and its settings, there were some BIOS updates recently for the X3D line (it is likely, that you have it already, but it cannot hurt to make sure) and also, you can try to set the BIOS to more conservative settings, when it comes to turbo boost (which may or may not be possible to do).

Other than that, the only thing that comes to my mind, is to use Ryzen Master software and try to toy with the process and power allocation etc.

Also, does this happen always and in every TSC version?
Or does it happen in specific version in particular (it is not a solution per se, but it may hint, where exactly is the problem hidden).

It happens in all three versions of TSC. 32 bit, 64 bit and 64 bit DX12. My bios is updated yes, I only built the PC last week, so everything installed is the latest version. Double checked every driver.

As mentioned by Felix, I would have also suggested making sure your Motherboard Bios is fully up to date as a number of Motherboard Bios updates came out one after the other for your new CPU X3D Gen, owing to thermal and performance issues for some.

What make is your 360mm AIO cooler and is it new? Are you able to make use of the AM5/AM4 CPU 'optional' offset mount, as I have done with my Arctic Liquid Freezer II AIO, to better cool the CPU 'hot-spot' which is below the CPU centre point on AM5/AM4 Zen 3/4 CPU's?
I would also consider re-mounting your AIO anyway, just in case bad contact on part of the CPU base plate somewhere. I also assume you know to mount your Radiators highest point above the CPU pump to avoid trapped air in your pump.
Best.

[Fawx]

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

Originally posted by Fawx:

It happens in all three versions of TSC. 32 bit, 64 bit and 64 bit DX12. My bios is updated yes, I only built the PC last week, so everything installed is the latest version. Double checked every driver.

As mentioned by Felix, I would have also suggested making sure your Motherboard Bios is fully up to date as a number of Motherboard Bios updates came out one after the other for your new CPU X3D Gen, owing to thermal and performance issues for some.

What make is your 360mm AIO cooler and is it new? Are you able to make use of the AM5/AM4 CPU 'optional' offset mount, as I have done with my Arctic Liquid Freezer II AIO, to better cool the CPU 'hot-spot' which is below the CPU centre point on AM5/AM4 Zen 3/4 CPU's?
I would also consider re-mounting your AIO anyway, just in case bad contact on part of the CPU base plate somewhere. I also assume you know to mount your Radiators highest point above the CPU pump to avoid trapped air in your pump.
Best.

Bios is up to date. The AIO is brand new, only a week old, it's a Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE LCD XT. The Radiator is mounted properly. It's mounted vertical, with the pipes at the bottom, the highest point of the rad is higher than the AIO pump which is about in the middle. I don't have a specific offset mounting bracket currently.

There are no thermal problems in any other game/software/benchmark/stresstest. The pc performs excellently in thermals for every other use case. Train Sim World 3 for example, the temperature never goes above 58C. There is something specific with the software of Train Sim Classic that is causing the issue.

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by Fawx:

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

As mentioned by Felix, I would have also suggested making sure your Motherboard Bios is fully up to date as a number of Motherboard Bios updates came out one after the other for your new CPU X3D Gen, owing to thermal and performance issues for some.

What make is your 360mm AIO cooler and is it new? Are you able to make use of the AM5/AM4 CPU 'optional' offset mount, as I have done with my Arctic Liquid Freezer II AIO, to better cool the CPU 'hot-spot' which is below the CPU centre point on AM5/AM4 Zen 3/4 CPU's?
I would also consider re-mounting your AIO anyway, just in case bad contact on part of the CPU base plate somewhere. I also assume you know to mount your Radiators highest point above the CPU pump to avoid trapped air in your pump.
Best.

Bios is up to date. The AIO is brand new, only a week old, it's a Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE LCD XT. The Radiator is mounted properly. It's mounted vertical, with the pipes at the bottom, the highest point of the rad is higher than the AIO pump which is about in the middle. I don't have a specific offset mounting bracket currently.

There are no thermal problems in any other game/software/benchmark/stresstest. The pc performs excellently in thermals for every other use case. Train Sim World 3 for example, the temperature never goes above 58C. There is something specific with the software of Train Sim Classic that is causing the issue.

Hello again. It has to be remembered that TSC is a very old game engine, very dated compared to far better optimised and efficient more modern game engines like TSW etc, designed with modern CPU/GPU's in mind and therefore able to take advantage of more efficient coding.

TSC does make CPU's and GPU's work harder in comparison, especially if implementing max graphics settings including very high SSA and above 1080p resolutions or even 4K as I do. Higher CPU/GPU temperatures will occur in those situations, although your high CPU temperatures in TSC do seem above what I would expect.

My own build/CPU/GPU does get hot running TSC maxed out at 4K running a detailed route with pro-traction on a background hot 25C summers day, but never above about 64C on a 5800X CPU/AIO with offset mounting.

I would still be inclined to re-mount your AIO just in case fine for your other more efficient games, but not an old inefficient game engine like TSC. Your CPU hot-spot may not be contacting as well as the rest of the cold-plate. Something not quite right somewhere, re-mounting your AIO would at least be one thing to eliminate if no change afterwards.

I was also wondering, if your AIO is front mounted vertically as you said, are your AIO fans 'pulling cooler air' through your radiator from outside your PC case (as my AIO does) or 'pushing' very warm air from inside your PC through the radiator to the outside? The latter will make a warmer difference to your CPU temperatures if your GPU is working hard expelling hot air inside your PC case whilst processing TSC at high graphic settings, warming your radiator first as the fans spin up to compensate.
Optimal AIO fan orientation can be very important to CPU temperatures, dependent on radiator mounting position, front or top of a case plus negative or positive case air pressure.
Best.

[Felix.AVMP]

Not going to lie, I am baffled by the fact, that TSC spikes CPU temperature (much) higher, than TSW or even Prime95 - because it is usually the other way around (for quite obvious reasons).

Anyway, i think, that you should start monitoring not only temperature, but also a frequency of your CPU and see, it there is a correlation between these two.

i still think, that there is some "trigger happy" function in BIOS, which pushes CPU to ridiculous speeds (and temperatures), when single core load is detected - you can try to emulate this in Prime95 by selecting only one core to run the stress test
(but it still can be rather inconclusive, but you should try it, if the result is positive, you will now, that single core load overheats your CPU, however, negative result does not prove much, because Prime95 is likely using a different CPU instruction mix than TSC).

Another thing... 7800X3D has small RDNA2 IGP - try to toy with it, either by enabling it (which may steal some power from the entire CPU allocation power envelope, which may result in overall clock reduction and thus in temperature reduction) - or by disabling it and thus conversely switching off a part, which basically does nothing and just eats energy.

It is fishing and trial and error elimination of alternatives.

**
On a slightly unrelated note - check voltage (and speed) of your memory, if it is within official JEDEC parameters, just to be on the safe side for now - and if it is not, set it up within official parameters, even manually if you have to (I am not against pushing the memory speed a little bit over the specs, but since IMC is in the CPU package as well, every user adjustable aspect should be considered), because memory controller pushed to higher speeds on higher voltage can also produce rather high temperatures.

Officially, AMD currently supports memory speeds up to DDR5-5200, so running your memory on DDR5-6000 (if you run them this way, that is) might be causing this as well (yeah, it is possible to go a notch or two above the official memory specs fairly safely, IMC usually have some maneuvring room and certification process is rather slow, but still, memory should be running at official speed, at least for the purpose of the diagnostics).

[Fawx]

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

Originally posted by Fawx:

Bios is up to date. The AIO is brand new, only a week old, it's a Corsair iCUE H150i ELITE LCD XT. The Radiator is mounted properly. It's mounted vertical, with the pipes at the bottom, the highest point of the rad is higher than the AIO pump which is about in the middle. I don't have a specific offset mounting bracket currently.

There are no thermal problems in any other game/software/benchmark/stresstest. The pc performs excellently in thermals for every other use case. Train Sim World 3 for example, the temperature never goes above 58C. There is something specific with the software of Train Sim Classic that is causing the issue.

Hello again. It has to be remembered that TSC is a very old game engine, very dated compared to far better optimised and efficient more modern game engines like TSW etc, designed with modern CPU/GPU's in mind and therefore able to take advantage of more efficient coding.

TSC does make CPU's and GPU's work harder in comparison, especially if implementing max graphics settings including very high SSA and above 1080p resolutions or even 4K as I do. Higher CPU/GPU temperatures will occur in those situations, although your high CPU temperatures in TSC do seem above what I would expect.

My own build/CPU/GPU does get hot running TSC maxed out at 4K running a detailed route with pro-traction on a background hot 25C summers day, but never above about 64C on a 5800X CPU/AIO with offset mounting.

I would still be inclined to re-mount your AIO just in case fine for your other more efficient games, but not an old inefficient game engine like TSC. Your CPU hot-spot may not be contacting as well as the rest of the cold-plate. Something not quite right somewhere, re-mounting your AIO would at least be one thing to eliminate if no change afterwards.

I was also wondering, if your AIO is front mounted vertically as you said, are your AIO fans 'pulling cooler air' through your radiator from outside your PC case (as my AIO does) or 'pushing' very warm air from inside your PC through the radiator to the outside? The latter will make a warmer difference to your CPU temperatures if your GPU is working hard expelling hot air inside your PC case whilst processing TSC at high graphic settings, warming your radiator first as the fans spin up to compensate.
Optimal AIO fan orientation can be very important to CPU temperatures, dependent on radiator mounting position, front or top of a case plus negative or positive case air pressure.
Best.

The Rad is mounted at the side of the case (It's basically the front for my case as the front is glass). The rad intakes cool air from the outside, and expels it into the case. The rad has 6 120MM fans, setup in a Push-Pull format. 3 fans blow air into the Rad, and 3 fans suck air through the rad.

While I know it is an older game, and will push CPU harder due to single core. I get 84C on the main menu, with minimum settings and FPS capped to 5. No changes to in game settings make any difference, as it's running that hot before I even get to play.

[Fawx]

Originally posted by Felix.AVMP:

Not going to lie, I am baffled by the fact, that TSC spikes CPU temperature (much) higher, than TSW or even Prime95 - because it is usually the other way around (for quite obvious reasons).

Anyway, i think, that you should start monitoring not only temperature, but also a frequency of your CPU and see, it there is a correlation between these two.

i still think, that there is some "trigger happy" function in BIOS, which pushes CPU to ridiculous speeds (and temperatures), when single core load is detected - you can try to emulate this in Prime95 by selecting only one core to run the stress test
(but it still can be rather inconclusive, but you should try it, if the result is positive, you will now, that single core load overheats your CPU, however, negative result does not prove much, because Prime95 is likely using a different CPU instruction mix than TSC).

Another thing... 7800X3D has small RDNA2 IGP - try to toy with it, either by enabling it (which may steal some power from the entire CPU allocation power envelope, which may result in overall clock reduction and thus in temperature reduction) - or by disabling it and thus conversely switching off a part, which basically does nothing and just eats energy.

It is fishing and trial and error elimination of alternatives.

**
On a slightly unrelated note - check voltage (and speed) of your memory, if it is within official JEDEC parameters, just to be on the safe side for now - and if it is not, set it up within official parameters, even manually if you have to (I am not against pushing the memory speed a little bit over the specs, but since IMC is in the CPU package as well, every user adjustable aspect should be considered), because memory controller pushed to higher speeds on higher voltage can also produce rather high temperatures.

Officially, AMD currently supports memory speeds up to DDR5-5200, so running your memory on DDR5-6000 (if you run them this way, that is) might be causing this as well (yeah, it is possible to go a notch or two above the official memory specs fairly safely, IMC usually have some maneuvring room and certification process is rather slow, but still, memory should be running at official speed, at least for the purpose of the diagnostics).

I tried the Prime 95 single core test. Barely pushed the temperature up to 52C. TSC pushes the clockspeed up to 4.65MHz on the menu, which is still well below the boost max of 5.0MHz for the 7800x3d.

I still haven't turned EXPO on for my memory, so while it is 6000MHz rated, it's only running at 4800MHz currently.

The IGP is currently disabled in the BIOS, but I can give it a go.

[Chicken Balti]

A very detailed review of the OP's 7800X3D below, which includes some useful information on chip speeds and PBO/Curve Optimiser etc. Ryzen Master will be very useful for settings and monitoring if not already installed by the OP.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d-cpu-review

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by Fawx:

Originally posted by Felix.AVMP:

Not going to lie, I am baffled by the fact, that TSC spikes CPU temperature (much) higher, than TSW or even Prime95 - because it is usually the other way around (for quite obvious reasons).

Anyway, i think, that you should start monitoring not only temperature, but also a frequency of your CPU and see, it there is a correlation between these two.

i still think, that there is some "trigger happy" function in BIOS, which pushes CPU to ridiculous speeds (and temperatures), when single core load is detected - you can try to emulate this in Prime95 by selecting only one core to run the stress test
(but it still can be rather inconclusive, but you should try it, if the result is positive, you will now, that single core load overheats your CPU, however, negative result does not prove much, because Prime95 is likely using a different CPU instruction mix than TSC).

Another thing... 7800X3D has small RDNA2 IGP - try to toy with it, either by enabling it (which may steal some power from the entire CPU allocation power envelope, which may result in overall clock reduction and thus in temperature reduction) - or by disabling it and thus conversely switching off a part, which basically does nothing and just eats energy.

It is fishing and trial and error elimination of alternatives.

**
On a slightly unrelated note - check voltage (and speed) of your memory, if it is within official JEDEC parameters, just to be on the safe side for now - and if it is not, set it up within official parameters, even manually if you have to (I am not against pushing the memory speed a little bit over the specs, but since IMC is in the CPU package as well, every user adjustable aspect should be considered), because memory controller pushed to higher speeds on higher voltage can also produce rather high temperatures.

Officially, AMD currently supports memory speeds up to DDR5-5200, so running your memory on DDR5-6000 (if you run them this way, that is) might be causing this as well (yeah, it is possible to go a notch or two above the official memory specs fairly safely, IMC usually have some maneuvring room and certification process is rather slow, but still, memory should be running at official speed, at least for the purpose of the diagnostics).

I tried the Prime 95 single core test. Barely pushed the temperature up to 52C. TSC pushes the clockspeed up to 4.65MHz on the menu, which is still well below the boost max of 5.0MHz for the 7800x3d.

I still haven't turned EXPO on for my memory, so while it is 6000MHz rated, it's only running at 4800MHz currently.

The IGP is currently disabled in the BIOS, but I can give it a go.

Thanks for additional information about your AIO, although I am not convinced as a result of digesting many articles about 'Push/Pull' fan set-ups on AIO radiators, that this additional fan set-up is worth the additional cost. The gained results are either exactly the same as a three fan 360m AIO or slightly better or worse. Personally as a PC builder, I would rather place that extra fans cost towards other parts of a build, but each to their own.

As we have established, something is not quite right with your new build regarding temperatures and Ryzen Master may help you fine tune your 7800X3D. You could even try Ryzen Eco Mode just to see if you can get TSC temperatures lower, which may shed some light on this problem.

I run my 5800x/AIO with PBO and Curve Optimiser-30 which works very nicely to boost to max when required (4.8Ghz) whilst keeping the CPU much cooler at other times with lighter loads.

Well worth the initial Curve Optimiser auto set-up of around 40 minutes wait time.
TSC always runs at 4.8Ghz core speed maxed out graphically with very high SSA and 4K resolution, although as I have already mentioned, CPU/GPU temperatures are higher than other more modern AAA games I play with ultra game settings at 4K or 2K.
Best.

[Fawx]

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

Originally posted by Fawx:

I already have a PBO curve of -20 set on my 7800x3D. Just applied through the bios rather than Ryzen Master.

I feel like if it was a thermal issue with my build, it would be manifesting in something else. My temps in everything else are well within what they should be considering my setup. If it was a paste/cooler/airflow issue it would result in elevated temperatures across the board. Something about TSC, is pushing the CPU past limits. It's clearly doing doing something it shouldn't be.

As for the Push-Pull setup, I already had the extra fans laying around, so didn't cost me anything extra. I wouldn't have done it otherwise lol, it only knocks a couple of degrees off the peak temps. But every little helps, and it was basically free money wise for me.

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by Fawx:

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

I already have a PBO curve of -20 set on my 7800x3D. Just applied through the bios rather than Ryzen Master.

I feel like if it was a thermal issue with my build, it would be manifesting in something else. My temps in everything else are well within what they should be considering my setup. If it was a paste/cooler/airflow issue it would result in elevated temperatures across the board. Something about TSC, is pushing the CPU past limits. It's clearly doing doing something it shouldn't be.

As for the Push-Pull setup, I already had the extra fans laying around, so didn't cost me anything extra. I wouldn't have done it otherwise lol, it only knocks a couple of degrees off the peak temps. But every little helps, and it was basically free money wise for me.

I presume you meant Curve Optimiser-20 not PBO-20. I would certainly try Curve Optimiser via Ryzen Master rather than Bios for best results and also set your additional PBO Bios settings to boost according to your Motherboard limits rather than your own.

My idle TSC main screen CPU temperature is around 35C peaking to around 64C when running a demanding detailed route with Pro-traction, so your very high TSC idle temperature is excessive. It may be TSC related with something corrupted file wise, but to test would require a re-install of your TSC and all the hassle that brings with 3rd party content. Might be an option if all else fails though.
Best.

[Felix.AVMP]

I think, that based on all the info, we can safely conclude, that this is a specific TSC issue.

You should probably contact DTG by official means and tell them about this - and while i don't think that they will be able to help immediately (at least for now), issue like this should be logged somewhere.

Last couple of ideas:
1. go to Nvidia control panel and make specific Railworks.exe, railworks64.exe etc. profiles and try to limit frame rates as much as reasonably possible
2. try different Nvidia drivers, there are various isses in them from time to time as well

But other that that... well, you could probably tweak you CPU via Ryzen Master and tweak your cooling solution, but this is clearly something triggered by TSC itself.