The Kyle Line route just released! Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh.

[Growler]

For fans of rail routes in the beautiful Scottish Highlands, there's some great news today with the release of a new route for TS2015. "The Kyle Line - Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh" has just been been released for the game. A route created by the 3rd party developer "Just Trains".

For those unfamiliar with this UK route, it's a spectacular line running through the heart of the Scottish Highlands. Starting in Inverness, the "capital" of the Highlands, and gradually winding its way to the Scottish west coast ending up at Kyle of Lochalsh (located directly opposite the Isle of Skye). The route is 83 miles in length with 17 stations along the journey. The add-on comes with a total of 16 scenarios (14 Standard Scenarios, and two Free-roams).

If you're a huge Growler fan like myself, you'll love the route regardless of where it goes, since 9 of the scenarios are designed for the included Class 37 loco; which comes with a super mix of 8 different reskins. The other Standard Scenarios are designed for the Class 156, 158 and EWS Class 66 v2, requiring these additional RSC/DTG loco DLC add-ons. For those interested you can find plenty more details about the route on the Just Trains website.

[Flodul Marsh]

Class 37 reskins won't work, the locs are invisible (I only hear the engine sounds). Files verified via Steam, RW_Tools finds no problem and default Class 37 works well...

[musical_pete]

It's an ok route, a reasonable representation but sadly features my biggest TS bugbear - very poor track geometry & complete lack of superelevation - UNLIKE the real route (and in reality, correctly applied superelevation is precisely what stops trains rolling over on tight curves, re a previously mentioned problem). Exactly the same problem as the official West Highland Line DLC and I'm not saying it renders both routes unenjoyable, as the gradients alone are a nice challenge (perfectly transitioned in WHL, not so good in the Kyle line) and the scenery is great, but the ability to produce realistic riding PW in TS was implimented in TS2012 (back in 2011...) and some routes make brilliant use of it whereas others fall painfully short. I don't mind so much with freeware routes, and older official routes made before TS2012 but when I pay for a route these days, it kind of grates.....

I'd probably give it about a 6 out of 10.

[Growler]

For those that have purchased the route already, you'll probably be aware by now (Just Trains have sent out an email to those registered) that JT have just released a first patch/service pack for the route. But in case you missed it or had been put off getting the route because of some of the minor bugs reported, a direct copy of the JT post is given below. The service pack addresses a fair few of the small noted so far by users. Great that a first patch has come out so quickly after the routes initial launch. I should say it only applies to those who bought the route prior to today. From today onwards the patch is included in any purchase download.

And also perhaps of interest to some; is that JT have just announced a 48hr flash sale of their nice Bishop Auckland to Darlington route. Normally £20, but just £5 for the next two days; available directly from their website.


Kyle Line route, service pack details:

"Please install this update if you purchased and downloaded this product before the 03/06/2015.To obtain the update for this product, please reinstall the software after downloading the updated installer from your Just Trains account, which you can access by going to by logging into your online account. Once logged in please click on Your Orders.Please refer to this FAQ for additional guidance on re-downloading your product:

This update includes the following changes:

Door opening issue at Conon Bridge and Beauly stations on the ‘Class 158 – 2H81 08:55 Inverness-Kyle’ scenario changed so no door opening required to complete successfully.

Added Super Elevation in a number of locations where relevant.

Added Points Indicator signals to the passing loops.

Easing of gradient changes route-wide.

A number of smaller changes, including adjustment of trackside vegetation, fence lines etc.

Removed erroneous signal at Inverness Welsh's Bridge.

Fixed water blending issues route-wide (water was at differing heights in some locations).

Added headlight to the Kyle Route reskin Class 37 locomotives."

[FOUR The Dark Side]

Good news. Still have to find the time to try out if the reskins for 156 do work. Scenarios are long like a lifetime, guess a little side effect of the Scottish routes :) Doesn't make them bad though.

[musical_pete]

Well, having installed the update the only difference I see is the addition of points indicator lights. I've driven at least 20 miles from either end of the route in two different scenarios and haven't experienced a single inch of super elevated track. The gradient transitions are very slightly improved but nothing to write home about. I think the problem is that to add super elevation to an existing route means completely relaying the track - particularly when the original has no easements - altering the geometry apparently ruins existing scenarios. So, the moral of the story? Get it right before you release it..... then again, there's more to life than a little computer game. It's just that, like I said, if I pay my money, I expect a good product. If you are blind to railway track geometry and enjoy slamming into curves like a 60mph Blackpool tram, go ahead and enjoy.

[Growler]

In fairness the real-life route is a genuine roller coaster with some mental sharp gradient changes. Probably why they've frequently stuck with the good old Growlers, and not these dodgy modern DMUs! ;) just as well the 37s can take lots of abuse! The chief desinger of the route swears he put in some gentle super-elevation in the route right at the outset; and has posted research pictures he used for the game's route design. Of course we're so used to the faster modern routes in the game, that have tracks with long sweeping curves with considerable cant. Perhaps TS isn't quite refined enough to demonstrate gentle canting of the track very well. I just don't know. Time to hit the World Editor and have a little experiment perhaps.

I haven't tried the patched version yet, but look forward to giving it a whirl later tonight. But whatever, I guess in fairness to the authors it's one mighty long difficult route to produce. And at £15, it might be considered fair price when compared to the default £25 for many of the Steam sold routes that generally have very few scenarios. I have hopes that JT will refine the route further. If they don't, then I'm tempted to have a go tweaking it myself! lol

[musical_pete]

Yep £15 isn't so bad, it's worth the money for the driving experience but there isn't an ounce of SE/cant to be found so far. You can only run in/out cant through a horizontal spiral transition (easement in US parlance, and in TS - in reality there are several types, the more traditional being the cubic parabola with linear cant gradient which doesn't take suspension elasticity and vehicle oscillation into account, but generally works well for low to mid range speeds) which aren't present in perhaps 90% of the virtual JT route and where they are present there is still zero cant. Subtle cant would be nice, if it were there. The norm for most routes in real life is to use cant deficiency - an applied cant of generally two thirds that of equilibrium cant (the cant calculated to perfectly balance centripetal lateral acceleration and convert it to vertical acceleration) which caters for slower trains (generally freight) which will operate at cant excess (too much cant) and high speed trains (passenger) that will operate at a higher speed than the applied cant would prescribe if it were to be considered equalibrium - i.e. the high speed train will experience a slight outward lateral push but a safe amount, and the slow speed train will experience slightly too much inward push but a safe amount. It's a balancing act, quite literally - taking into account stability should a train come to a stop on the curve. High speed passenger trains tend to feature tilting bodies which bring cant deficiency up to equalibrium for passenger comfort, whereas the contents of freight trains don't tend to grumble at an imbalance.

I'm not saying don't buy the route - it is much more than I will probably ever manage to build with the software. Just don't expect a realistic ride in terms of vehicle dynamics, if you're an autistic pedant like me. The real route will have up to 150mm cant in places, just like the real West Highland line unlike the fabled DLC. I'm unfortunately just of an ilk that I prefer good track geometry over good scenery. I am, of course, just me. I've also had some beer.... the beauty of a virtual railway! :P

[Budge4]

Another route update released today, need to re download route.

[Growler]

Budge4 eredeti hozzászólása:

Another route update released today, need to re download route.

Cheers Budge. Yep, it's a bit of a pain uninstalling and reinstalling again. But good on JT for creating the patches so quickly. Look forward to giving the new version of the route a spin. :)

[john]

My class 158 , crashes the game irrespective of what ever station or when ever the doors are opened. Oh why didn't the author remove any neccessity to open the doors anywhere?

[Growler]

john eredeti hozzászólása:

My class 158 , crashes the game irrespective of what ever station or when ever the doors are opened. Oh why didn't the author remove any neccessity to open the doors anywhere?

Why did they use the 158 at all! Strange choice given its existing known problems. But makes for a few spectacular crashes! ;)

[john]

I'd like to get past Muir if I could - worked once never worked since

[chelpy]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the feedback hopefully (somebody at least?!) is enjoying the route..

I developed the route itself and will now try to answer some of the more prominent questions/points raised above.


1: Points referring to rushed scenery,some sections near to Inverness certainly could've had more time spent on them,however the point still remains that well over 1000 hours were spent by me alone adding scenery to the route,using my own knowledge of the area(s),my own photo's (of which I have many),videos and cab videos/other sources).

2:Poor use of textures,I agree broadly with this point,although I think our problem at JT is more related to a lack of new textures,and that we are still relying on age old Kuju textures,this will be something I look to try and get JT to introduce. (It has been talked about in brief).

3: The RETB. This is a hard one to explain,I spoke to Thomson Interactive regarding the use of anything included in their WHLE route (Class 37,etc),sadly they refused to allow that,it's their T&C's and nothing can be done about that. Also regarding our use of RETB,Thomson revealed to me that it took him a very long time to develop the RETB as seen in WHLE and as such, JT simply couldn't have afforded the time/manpower (of which we are not exactly overflowing) to implement anything of the sort,in fact we wouldn't have even had a starting point. My own personal opinion is that the WHLE system is very limited,in that only the Thomson 37 works on it,and it's very complex to set up in your own scenario,which would've caused the JT support team to have received an endless stream of emails asking how to set it up..

4:The extent of vegetation and drop in FPS. Simple really,either a high detailed,realistic route,or a low detailed false one.I have no FPS issues on a mid-high power system.

5:We are making a clone of this scenario available using the 158. The track has also been causing problems and the update we released this week should go some way to addressing that.

6:Barriers not closing,this is why you must learn the route :) Route knowledge is everything on the Kyle line, you need to adjust your speed in some places to allow the barriers to close, particularly around Dingwall where it is neccasery to slow to around 6-7mph. It adds more variety IMHO.


7:The speed limits are set up to appear for the Loco hauled trains,but not for DMU's,that's why it's advised you drive the learning the road scenario first,to learn the speed limits,the idea of the Kyle Line is to learn the route well before you go tearing along,some like it,some don't. The alternative was to set it up so that it was like WHLE,whereby if driving a loco you would normally see the higher speed limit. The "MU" limit is known as a "Secondary" limit and as such,it's also been set up in the route that way,it's something that takes time to learn.(2-3 runs). It's pretty predictable though to be honest.

8: Comments referring to the unrealistic placement of foliage. I have to disagree with these comments. I took a HUGE amount of time to ensure the foliage was realistic,those who haven't been along the Kyle line in real life,really must do to understand just how overgrown it is in some areas,it must be remembered that at most around 8 trains a day pass (thats counting outward and return journeys) and they are all units (outside of the summer period) meaning that the vegetation gets very close to the line,I actually got struck by a tree when poking my camera out of the window behind LNER K4 61994 a few years ago,in a number of places trees strike the train.... I'm not entirely sure what you expect me to do other than place it alongside the track in all honesty.


9: The 156 scenario will have a 158 clone version soon which will be offered to those who can't/don't want to run it with a 156. I was simply trying to reperesent the early-mid 90's with that scenario.

[chelpy]

10: I'm not entirely sure what you mean by arrogant? I drive without the HUD...why is that arrogant. Feel free to have a chat by adding me as a friend,to be honest I'm quite offended by that comment. In reference to the speed limit comment,see above once again. I've had 10 months to learn the route,I'm very passionate about it,if that then gets perceived as arrogance...maybe I shouldn't bother with Scotland anymore?


11: To be honest,I'm beginning to wonder why I bothered,"Growler"? You basically slate my passion,without knowing the background. I don't neccaserily dislike the HUD,I just don't drive with it on,BUT I tested the route many times with it on,of course I do know the route very well. I haven't forgotten about my target audience,I was under very close surveilence of Alex at JT for the entire project,who is/was my manager (and is not a slouch when it comes to quality). My beta team was not that "close" to me,maybe in the livestream I chose the wrong words on that one,although I do feel like I'm been called out here when you couldv'e asked me questions related to that in the LS,I would've gladly answered. My beta team consisted of 10 people,my main tester,Chris Goddard is an aquaintance of mine who has tested JT routes for many years,we are not "friends" as such and when he sees something wrong,he tells me,the other testers also pointed out a number of bugs. With regards to having more testers,for NtoE we had 20 testers (roughly),but sadly the route was leaked to a pirate website weeks before release,hence we chopped out a number of testers who had recently begun testing with JT,we now don't really open up testing to anyone other than those who A.Aren't afraid to say what they see and B. People we trust/know. If you think I sit around having little tea parties with my beta team then you'd be way off target,if they SEE (SEE is the key-word) a bug they TELL me about it,not faff about going "should I or shouldn't" (that'd be pretty pointless really!) and I make that clear,I tell them to be harsh. I can't quite recall but certainly they raised in excess of 200 bugs,and we have a purpose built system for doing this,which is very reliable.

12: We've received a number of fix requests,those that are realistic and need sorting I fix (usually straight away,which means breaking off from my current project) and send back,there will be a break now if anyone sends reports as otherwise we'd be issuing a new update every week..

[chelpy]

13: Regarding drops in FPS. It is stated that the route is highly detailed and as such requires a high powered system in some areas.

14: I may consider doing some sort of route details or maybe scanning the network rail route appendix for the route and uploading it to UKTS to assist with DMU speed limits. As for desks in a mess...you should see mine,I have a draw with around 20-30 reference materials for the Kyle Line,suppose I should store them away again now though!

15: Inverness station lighting,we received complaints with NtoE about the "Always on" lights,so the lights at Inverness only come on at night. NOTE,if using 3D weather the lights on/sunset time varies massively,this is more an RW bug really. The 37 cab light sadly can't be added really (I'm sure in theory it probably could having said that) as it's a default loco,and not JT's own. The salmon farms and boats,I'll remember those,if there's a next time..!


16:The 156 issue doesn't affect me and when the scenario was put through testing nobody else experienced the problem,it was too late when I noticed the posts on UKTS regarding the class 156 crashing, HOWEVER a clone of the scenario will be available soon using the class 158 standalone from steam instead.


17: I worked on the track post release,I realised people weren't happy with it,hopefully they are now following my update,I apologise for this. I did also add Superelevation to SOME curves,however with the way TS15 works sadly it's not really possible to add it in huge heaps,it doesn't like the radius of the curves in Kyle Line (and presumably WHLE,hence it wasn't included with that). I also noticed comments regarding the gradients been too sharp,I spent a good while fixing this post release and I hope these are now much better,I can assure you however that the gradients are accurate to within a few metres,I spent 3 weeks just ensuring that was the case at the beginning of production.

18: I'm sorry you don't like the gradient transitions,the real route has some ridiculous ones (I've seen them many times with my own eyes).



In summary,I'm sorry if some of my replies are blunt or aren't acceptable,but please understand what it's like to be on the other side of the monitor when I read a whole load of quite blunt comments,it's not for the faint hearted! I'm just an average Yorkshire bloke in an average Yorkshire house with an average Yorkshire...you get the drift,I'm passionate about my simulator work and will strive to improve,I want better assets at JT,I think I could do a better job using DTG assets,but they have the resources to make huge amounts of assets. At the end of the day I was a bit upset with comments referring to me as arrogant,that honestly did upset me a little,I'm not a softly softly sort of bloke but I take time to read every single comment that is posted,and I take a mental note. Kyle line was my first commercial project that I 100% completed myself (route and scenarios),I did Newcastle-Berwick and the scenarios for that as my first and would like to think there is a gradual improvement,and for my next project,yet more improvement. Perfection is very hard,I was once on the side you guys are,making comments on forums (I actually got put on moderation a few times on UKTS for overstepping the mark!) but it's only when it's your work that gets shot down that you realise what an emotional effect it has,you feel useless in all honesty when reading some of them (some of the JT support emails I've read are really shocking),many dev's actually don't read them at all,but I'm not afraid of the critics,I used to be one,it'd be a bit high and mighty of me to then ignore them when I become a full time dev myself! I don't want to sound like I'm asking for forgiveness,I'm not,I know the route has rough edges,I can see them with my own eyes,trust me,I spent a long,long time getting it looking like it does today. I was tasked with doing this route in a decent turnaround for JT,I get paid a very average amount (put it this way I don't have much money to spare at the end of the month) but work around 50 hours a week,45-48 weeks of the year,I couldn't really have gone to JT and said,"Right,give me 3 years and £XXXX and maybe then you'll get the route,maybe you won't",it doesn't work like that sadly,NtoE was like that and it caused MASSIVE issues at JT.