Boiler pressure issue

[cams-11]

For the past few weeks, I've noticed a boiler pressure issue.

Before, when I started a scenario with a Western Lines Port Road Black Five, the bolier pressure would rise to blow off level in a few minutes, now it barely gets there, usually going up 1 PSI every minute.

Then when I set off, I could be at 40% for regulator and Reverser, going 10MPH and still losing pressure. Shovel coal for a few minutes and still no different.

Any help?

[jalsina]

How is your water level? C ocks or any other steam release are open?

[cams-11]

Water level is at 99%, c ocks closed. It's only happened in the past few weeks. Never happened before that.

[jalsina]

Considering you probably have not messed with physics, is it possible some sort of loco failure set in the scenario?
I guess no more ideas from my side.

[Chicken Balti]

I trust you are notching back on the reverser as speed increases/load decreases and your brakes are fully released then placed in the running position?

[bencarl]

I'm having the same problem generating steam.
Horseshoe Curve,
PRR K4,
NKPT Berkshire.

Things go fine until I leave the station (Altoona) and head up the mountain toward Gallitzin. No matter what I do with the fire controls I can't generate enough steam to make the 1.9% grade.
Even if I stop and wait with the fire going full blast the steam takes an hour to increase 10psi.
I'm following as best I can the tutorial here:

http://www.engine-driver.com/article/show/9365/tutorial-driving-the-peppercorn

I have the problems in all scenarios: Quick Drive, Career, and Standard.

I'm running Win XP pro SP3 (if that matters). I am very soon to upgrade to 7 pro in the next few weeks when I have the time.

[LeadCatcher]

Make sure your brakes are in running position, make sure your Dampers are open and make sure you are generating more steam than you are using - It means you might have to run slower than posted speed - I run these scenarios with both the PRR K4 and the Berkshire and have no problem with maintaining steam pressure.

For long climbs - it is more important to maintain pressure over speed. Steam Sound Supreme has some excellent scenarios on the Somerset and Dorset route for the 7F. The only way to complete them is to try and maintain 10 - 15 Mph on the climbs even though it is a 70 zone.

What I do is usually go to 60 - 70 % on the resverser starting out with throttle at 20 - 30 % to prevent slippage - increase throttle and decrease reverser as speed picks up - like to maintain speed at 20 - 30 % reverser and throttle as appropiate to keep steam generation above usage - as I hit a climb - increase throttle as speed decreases keeping steam generation in the green - as speed comes down - increase reverser watching steam generation - speed will decrease but you will get over the climb with a near full head of steam. On most steamers the the throttle with be near 100% on the climb with the reverser controlling the stea usage - on some locomotives you will have to play with both throttle and reververser to find the optimal combination to maintain adequate speed plus pressure -

Steamers can be finicky, a pain to learn, but well worthwhile for a challenge over the push button Diesel or electrics :-)

[jalsina]

Originally posted by LeadCatcher:

Make sure your brakes are in running position, make sure your Dampers are open and make sure you are generating more steam than you are using - It means you might have to run slower than posted speed - I run these scenarios with both the PRR K4 and the Berkshire and have no problem with maintaining steam pressure.

For long climbs - it is more important to maintain pressure over speed. Steam Sound Supreme has some excellent scenarios on the Somerset and Dorset route for the 7F. The only way to complete them is to try and maintain 10 - 15 Mph on the climbs even though it is a 70 zone.

What I do is usually go to 60 - 70 % on the resverser starting out with throttle at 20 - 30 % to prevent slippage - increase throttle and decrease reverser as speed picks up - like to maintain speed at 20 - 30 % reverser and throttle as appropiate to keep steam generation above usage - as I hit a climb - increase throttle as speed decreases keeping steam generation in the green - as speed comes down - increase reverser watching steam generation - speed will decrease but you will get over the climb with a near full head of steam. On most steamers the the throttle with be near 100% on the climb with the reverser controlling the stea usage - on some locomotives you will have to play with both throttle and reververser to find the optimal combination to maintain adequate speed plus pressure -

Steamers can be finicky, a pain to learn, but well worthwhile for a challenge over the push button Diesel or electrics :-)

Nice advising! What you do not say is what are you pulling in that slope (cars# / tons#).

Cams-11: I wonder what loco are you using and how many cars / tons) are you pulling (it is in a UK route, right?).
Can you check a consist with two pullers in the very same place of your route and see what happens?

I know, I know! You said this did not happen before and it is happening now. In this case it may be either a failure accidentaly programmed in the scenario or a mess of your physics (as I said before).

[jalsina]

Originally posted by bencarl:

I'm having the same problem generating steam.
Horseshoe Curve,
PRR K4,
NKPT Berkshire.

Things go fine until I leave the station (Altoona) and head up the mountain toward Gallitzin. No matter what I do with the fire controls I can't generate enough steam to make the 1.9% grade.
Even if I stop and wait with the fire going full blast the steam takes an hour to increase 10psi.
I'm following as best I can the tutorial here:

http://www.engine-driver.com/article/show/9365/tutorial-driving-the-peppercorn

I have the problems in all scenarios: Quick Drive, Career, and Standard.

I'm running Win XP pro SP3 (if that matters). I am very soon to upgrade to 7 pro in the next few weeks when I have the time.

I do not think your Windows OS has anything to do with your steam production.

[LeadCatcher]

Originally posted by jalsina:

Originally posted by LeadCatcher:

Make sure your brakes are in running position, make sure your Dampers are open and make sure you are generating more steam than you are using - It means you might have to run slower than posted speed - I run these scenarios with both the PRR K4 and the Berkshire and have no problem with maintaining steam pressure.

For long climbs - it is more important to maintain pressure over speed. Steam Sound Supreme has some excellent scenarios on the Somerset and Dorset route for the 7F. The only way to complete them is to try and maintain 10 - 15 Mph on the climbs even though it is a 70 zone.

What I do is usually go to 60 - 70 % on the resverser starting out with throttle at 20 - 30 % to prevent slippage - increase throttle and decrease reverser as speed picks up - like to maintain speed at 20 - 30 % reverser and throttle as appropiate to keep steam generation above usage - as I hit a climb - increase throttle as speed decreases keeping steam generation in the green - as speed comes down - increase reverser watching steam generation - speed will decrease but you will get over the climb with a near full head of steam. On most steamers the the throttle with be near 100% on the climb with the reverser controlling the stea usage - on some locomotives you will have to play with both throttle and reververser to find the optimal combination to maintain adequate speed plus pressure -

Steamers can be finicky, a pain to learn, but well worthwhile for a challenge over the push button Diesel or electrics :-)

Nice advising! What you do not say is what are you pulling in that slope (cars# / tons#).

Cams-11: I wonder what loco are you using and how many cars / tons) are you pulling (it is in a UK route, right?).
Can you check a consist with two pullers in the very same place of your route and see what happens?

I know, I know! You said this did not happen before and it is happening now. In this case it may be either a failure accidentaly programmed in the scenario or a mess of your physics (as I said before).

Pulling what ever is in the scenarios - :-) regardless - the technique works across all the scenarios I have played - I haven't made custom consists to see what the max is for a loco just finished all the Career scenarios for the Port Road with nary a problem (except for a speeding point lost or two) so take the advice for for what it is worth to you.

[bencarl]

Thanks for the advise. One question regarding dampers...
Open lets air in and closed keeps air out, but the F5 HUD only shows On and Off. Whih one means open?

So why is it that when the train is parked with all settings (as best as I can figure) set for max steam production that I can't build boiler pressure? C_ocks closed, Blower on, Stoker on, Dampers open (I think)?

As far as the OS goes.. DTG says they haven't even tried to test TS2015 on Win XP. I was wondering if there may be a difference in the core program that XP can't deal with. Lots of the newer routes crash constantly on my PC and I can't get support because I run XP.

[bencarl]

Oh,
Should I be doing anything with the 4 different injectors? Live steam injector, Exhaust steam injector, Live water injector, and water exhaust injector. Not sure if I got the names right. They are listed in the keyboard controls layout.

[jalsina]

Originally posted by The Old Dessauer:

The default NKP berkshire physics are broken; you need to get a physics mod to accurately model the tractive effort and horsepower of the real thing. You can find a free mod for it at RailworksAmerica.com. Go to files, then tools and accessories; it is in there. A person that goes by the name of DtrainBNSF1 made it. It works well for the Berkshire. Install it with the Utilites program that is in your Train Simulator files.

The Pennsy K4 actually works a lot like the real thing. You can't open the throttle all the way and blast off. You have to slowly open the throttle and make adjustments to the reverser to build up steam. Also make sure that your damper is open (M key); the dampers are openings in the grates of the firebox that let air in to feed the fire; no air flow, no fire, no steam. And, keep your sanders on. That Locomotive will take 6-8 Pennsy commuter coaches up HSC at track speed, just like the real thing....if you handle it correctly. Practice grasshopper....

Since I am in TS2015 (a long week now) I have tried the K4 for only a while and you are right. However I think there is something wrong in the brakes which seems to be a longer lap run than I believe is necessary. It feels pretty much like a steamer of the size.
As for the Berkshire I thank you for the information as I got the DLC along the Northern (last summer buy) and the only time I tried it did not feel too well..
All those locos appear to have the whistle sound not right.

Originally posted by LeadCatcher:

Pulling what ever is in the scenarios - :-) regardless - the technique works across all the scenarios I have played - I haven't made custom consists to see what the max is for a loco just finished all the Career scenarios for the Port Road with nary a problem (except for a speeding point lost or two) so take the advice for for what it is worth to you.

I only wanted to know if you had a few cars or a longer train, because there is a difference to handle the loco. SO this is the reason I asked for a test with a helper.

[LeadCatcher]

Originally posted by jalsina:

Originally posted by The Old Dessauer:

The default NKP berkshire physics are broken; you need to get a physics mod to accurately model the tractive effort and horsepower of the real thing. You can find a free mod for it at RailworksAmerica.com. Go to files, then tools and accessories; it is in there. A person that goes by the name of DtrainBNSF1 made it. It works well for the Berkshire. Install it with the Utilites program that is in your Train Simulator files.

The Pennsy K4 actually works a lot like the real thing. You can't open the throttle all the way and blast off. You have to slowly open the throttle and make adjustments to the reverser to build up steam. Also make sure that your damper is open (M key); the dampers are openings in the grates of the firebox that let air in to feed the fire; no air flow, no fire, no steam. And, keep your sanders on. That Locomotive will take 6-8 Pennsy commuter coaches up HSC at track speed, just like the real thing....if you handle it correctly. Practice grasshopper....

Since I am in TS2015 (a long week now) I have tried the K4 for only a while and you are right. However I think there is something wrong in the brakes which seems to be a longer lap run than I believe is necessary. It feels pretty much like a steamer of the size.
As for the Berkshire I thank you for the information as I got the DLC along the Northern (last summer buy) and the only time I tried it did not feel too well..
All those locos appear to have the whistle sound not right.

Originally posted by LeadCatcher:

Pulling what ever is in the scenarios - :-) regardless - the technique works across all the scenarios I have played - I haven't made custom consists to see what the max is for a loco just finished all the Career scenarios for the Port Road with nary a problem (except for a speeding point lost or two) so take the advice for for what it is worth to you.

I only wanted to know if you had a few cars or a longer train, because there is a difference to handle the loco. SO this is the reason I asked for a test with a helper.

Originally posted by jalsina:

Originally posted by The Old Dessauer:

The default NKP berkshire physics are broken; you need to get a physics mod to accurately model the tractive effort and horsepower of the real thing. You can find a free mod for it at RailworksAmerica.com. Go to files, then tools and accessories; it is in there. A person that goes by the name of DtrainBNSF1 made it. It works well for the Berkshire. Install it with the Utilites program that is in your Train Simulator files.

The Pennsy K4 actually works a lot like the real thing. You can't open the throttle all the way and blast off. You have to slowly open the throttle and make adjustments to the reverser to build up steam. Also make sure that your damper is open (M key); the dampers are openings in the grates of the firebox that let air in to feed the fire; no air flow, no fire, no steam. And, keep your sanders on. That Locomotive will take 6-8 Pennsy commuter coaches up HSC at track speed, just like the real thing....if you handle it correctly. Practice grasshopper....

Since I am in TS2015 (a long week now) I have tried the K4 for only a while and you are right. However I think there is something wrong in the brakes which seems to be a longer lap run than I believe is necessary. It feels pretty much like a steamer of the size.
As for the Berkshire I thank you for the information as I got the DLC along the Northern (last summer buy) and the only time I tried it did not feel too well..
All those locos appear to have the whistle sound not right.

Originally posted by LeadCatcher:

Pulling what ever is in the scenarios - :-) regardless - the technique works across all the scenarios I have played - I haven't made custom consists to see what the max is for a loco just finished all the Career scenarios for the Port Road with nary a problem (except for a speeding point lost or two) so take the advice for for what it is worth to you.

I only wanted to know if you had a few cars or a longer train, because there is a difference to handle the loco. SO this is the reason I asked for a test with a helper.

I have run both long consist and short consist, everything from the FEF , 4MT black 5, 7F, 9F, Jinty,Big Boy, Challenger, and many others just trying to answer the OP's question about keeping steamers in steam.

Well known that you need to use the keyboard and F5 information when double-heading steam engines because of limitations in the F4 HUD. Different locomotives are affected differently. Also make sure you are running with expert controls and turn off the automatic fireman. Regardless, the technique I described is still the same.

Hope you get things sorted, because Kettles are definitely fun to drive.

[bencarl]

Hey,
I just got done running the Westward Bound career scenario with the K4 on Horseshoe Curve.
I made it up the grade from Altoona to Gallitzin at line speed with plenty of steam to spare, but at the "(S) stop here" point somewhere near South Fork (I think) my steam problems returned. Boiler pressure dropped below 100PSI and would not rebound. I did complete the scenario because from that point it was all down hill and I didn't need to use any steam.

What gives? It's like there is some terminal point that if boiler pressure drops below it cannot recover!

BTW! For the climb to Gallitzin I had the blower, stoker, and dampers off, Regulator at 60-100% (depending on grade) and reverser at 40% and was still blowing off excess steam through the relief valve. (if the fire dropped below 80% I would stoke it back up)

[jalsina]

Last night I played a quick drive scenario right in the same route from Altoona to Gallitzin, with the consist with and 24 hoppers,btw a crazy size for that loco in such slope, but nobody knows the weight of that train, even though the wagons seem to be empty. The K4 died out of steam and ideas before the Curve.
I did try later the Northern and the Berkshire. None could make the job, though the Berk seemed to do better.
Once stopped I made tests, by uncoupling the cars and waiting for the steam to build up (In this department the K4 does better than a more powerful Berkshire), but could not make speeds higher than 2 to 4 mph until it bleed off or in the case of the K4 not even able to start it up.
I believe all these locos are screwed up for slopes beyond 1.5%.

BTW, for those who may ask I only play with expert controls and the automatic fireman unchecked. But I don´t know what the designer did related to this subject, because all 3 locos are oil fueled and the rate control could try to simulate the oil injector. In one of the locos the firedoor stays closed in the other open (it is a matter of design as there is no door at all.

But I am almost sure it must not simulate well. The core physics behaviour is probably a "grand son" with the same genetics of the old MSTS physics core file designed by Kuju, ten years ago. Designing oil fueled steam locos was something banned in MSTS.

I designed a coal fueled mastodont 4-8-0 in those days, about the K4 size and believe me that it would swallow any of those slopes as the real one did in the 40s, 50s and 60s in Spain mountaineous railroad.
I will try again with a consist with 2xK4 tandem.