Dynamic Braking Troubles with the GTEL

[ShadowSteel18 [The Otaku]]

Recently I've been trying to complete a could of Career Scenarios where you have to use the dynamic brakes quite a bit. They are mainly with the GTEL and I've been able to use the dynamic brakes quite easily on the 0.8% grade down to Laramie but other than that I've had a little bit of trouble. Especially on the 1.5% grade down to Cheyenne. Maybe it's because I'm still new to the Railworks franchise, but it would seem that the dynamic brakes on the GTEL don't want to engage.

[Smokebox]

Maybe you need to add a minimal reduction of the air brakes to supplement the dynamic braking. There's an optimal speed for the dynamics (25mph). Above or below that speed, the dynamics are less effective. They have absolutely no effect at under 3mph.

[jalsina]

They are engaging all right but they won´t at low speeds, knowing the kind of detail that Smokebox puts in his physics designs.
All old diesels and up to the eighties, dynamics did not work at speeds below 10-15 mph.

But looking at the presence of Smokebox lets ask a question also related with brakes:
I can´t release the independent brakes below 23%, not even using the animated control. What is the reason for that?

[OldAlaskaGuy]

Originalmente postado por jalsina:

They are engaging all right but they won´t at low speeds, knowing the kind of detail that Smokebox puts in his physics designs.
All old diesels and up to the eighties, dynamics did not work at speeds below 10-15 mph.

But looking at the presence of Smokebox lets ask a question also related with brakes:
I can´t release the independent brakes below 23%, not even using the animated control. What is the reason for that?

Smokebox has Train Simulator Sep 26 @ 1:16am
Please read the manual carefully, especially the description of the advanced brakes. The independent brake handle includes the spring-loaded Release position for bailing off the engine brakes. That's why it quickly moves back to around 20% when you let go of the handle after holding it in the Release position - it's the return spring doing its job. The manual also explains the various positions of the automatic train brake handle and what purpose they serve. Keep in mind that the position name that appears on the HUDs is not the position of the handle but actually shows what the script is doing with the core code's internal train brake controller to control the train brakes cylinder pressure.

[ShadowSteel18 [The Otaku]]

Originalmente postado por Smokebox:

Maybe you need to add a minimal reduction of the air brakes to supplement the dynamic braking. There's an optimal speed for the dynamics (25mph). Above or below that speed, the dynamics are less effective. They have absolutely no effect at under 3mph.

25MPH!? I need to be going at track speed to stay on time.

[jalsina]

Originalmente postado por rwaday:

Smokebox has Train Simulator Sep 26 @ 1:16am
Please read the manual carefully, especially the description of the advanced brakes. The independent brake handle includes the spring-loaded Release position for bailing off the engine brakes. That's why it quickly moves back to around 20% when you let go of the handle after holding it in the Release position - it's the return spring doing its job. The manual also explains the various positions of the automatic train brake handle and what purpose they serve. Keep in mind that the position name that appears on the HUDs is not the position of the handle but actually shows what the script is doing with the core code's internal train brake controller to control the train brakes cylinder pressure.

Well explained rwaday. Thanks.
My concern was if those independents were left somewhat applied.
And no. I have not read the GTEL manual. I have enough headaches with the Connie and the FEF-3 for the time being.

EDIT: And no I will not fall in the temptation. Tonight I will stay with the soot.

[jalsina]

Originalmente postado por ShadowSteel18 The Otaku:

Originalmente postado por Smokebox:

Maybe you need to add a minimal reduction of the air brakes to supplement the dynamic braking. There's an optimal speed for the dynamics (25mph). Above or below that speed, the dynamics are less effective. They have absolutely no effect at under 3mph.

25MPH!? I need to be going at track speed to stay on time.

If you are beyond these low speeds they should engage. It takes a few seconds to engage as in the diesels. The dynamics sound is really hardly audible due to the noisy turbine.

[ShadowSteel18 [The Otaku]]

Originalmente postado por jalsina:

If you are beyond these low speeds they should engage. It takes a few seconds to engage as in the diesels. The dynamics sound is really hardly audible due to the noisy turbine.

Well for some reason on "Enduring the Manifest" with the dynamic brakes on full I still am able to gain speed and have to appluy the air brakes from time to time. At onepoint by train derailed after I applied the air brakes (I think another train was trying to enter the line right as I was passing Borie).

[jalsina]

I can´t tell with which application force were designed those dynamics and the grade along which you are descending, but when I have been using dynamic brakes in high slopes of 1.5% and beyond I have always required a little bit of air brakes usage. An example descending from Gallitzin tunnel to Altoona requires air brakes. I will depend on the engine of course.

Most of the diesel DLC dynamics are corrected by FanRail or other mod designers. They get real world information. Being from Smokebox I am sure he has done his part of research before going to work on that physics.

[ShadowSteel18 [The Otaku]]

Originalmente postado por jalsina:

I can´t tell with which application force were designed those dynamics and the grade along which you are descending, but when I have been using dynamic brakes in high slopes of 1.5% and beyond I have always required a little bit of air brakes usage. An example descending from Gallitzin tunnel to Altoona requires air brakes. I will depend on the engine of course.

Most of the diesel DLC dynamics are corrected by FanRail or other mod designers. They get real world information. Being from Smokebox I am sure he has done his part of research before going to work on that physics.

But where do you set the brakes. In the manual for the GTEL is says to set the train brakes at 24% which actually applys the brakes. But it also talks about the having the independet brakes active already which is a bit odd.

[Smokebox]

Originalmente postado por ShadowSteel18 The Otaku:

But where do you set the brakes. In the manual for the GTEL is says to set the train brakes at 24% which actually applys the brakes. But it also talks about the having the independet brakes active already which is a bit odd.

24% is the position for minimal reduction (a rapid 6psi reduction in brake pipe pressure which gives you 15psi brake cylinder pressure - it's rapid because the brake branch pipes vent the first 6psi locally instead of the air having to exit through the head end).

When you set the train brakes, with the automatic trainbrake handle, it also sets the engine brakes (independent brakes) , which is why you see the brake cylinder needle on the gauge in the cab rise. Remember that the gauge shows the pressure in the locomotive's brake cylinders, whereas the F5 HUD shows the average pressure in the brake cylinders in the cars in the consist. The way that the independent brakes are set when you apply the train brakes is by the action of the J-valve that reads the changes in head end brake pipe pressure and translates them into changes in engine brake cylinder pressure. The purpose of this is to that the automatic brake handle applies the brakes on the cars and the locomotive. You do not need to use the independent handle to apply the engine brakes. You can, but it's not necessary, although you would normally use the independent handle exclusively when running light engine.

The independent brake handle is for applying and releasing the engine brakes independently of the brakes in the cars. Note that in order to lower the pressure independently below the pressure obtained from using the automatic train brake handle, you have to put the independent in Release (the spring-loaded bail-off position) instead of Running (the position that the handle returns to when you stop pushing it into the Release position).

[jalsina]

You apply the dynamics (3rd icon) at 100%. Then when the speed builds near your maximum road speed you apply air brakes for a few seconds. You see your speed decreasing and you release air brakes as needed leaving your dynamics untouched to see your speed again going up, until the tracks grade changes to something that will require decreasing the dynamics at which point you will be more comfortable as you will only need adjusting the dynamics. It is all about the degree of steepness and how heavy is your consist and the quantity of engines helping.
The GTEL may have been another story, I don't know. Those were the days of early dynamic brakes with DC and being burned in resistors with switching methods made with contactors (relays) or even manual variable resistors. Nowadays most the switching uses electronic thyristors and triacs circuitry.

EDIT posted at same time as Smokebox

[psychomike127]

i just ran this 1. had mine set at 75% to 80, then back down around 50% when i came into .8 grade from 1.8. i had no problems sorry , i would suggest that you restart and try again. and watch signals you ran a red that why you almost got hit.

[ShadowSteel18 [The Otaku]]

Originalmente postado por psychomike127:

i just ran this 1. had mine set at 75% to 80, then back down around 50% when i came into .8 grade from 1.8. i had no problems sorry , i would suggest that you restart and try again. and watch signals you ran a red that why you almost got hit.

The thing was that I was paying attention to the singals and there was no red blocks. In fact the SD40-2 was at a stand-still. I think what happened was that there was a glitch where I went past the singal and for some reason the points in front of the SD40-2 switched. I don't exactly know what happened, though I had immediately applied the brakes right before the derailment and the train lurched forward.

[paweuek]

Originalmente postado por jalsina:

You apply the dynamics (3rd icon) at 100%. Then when the speed builds near your maximum road speed you apply air brakes for a few seconds. You see your speed decreasing and you release air brakes as needed leaving your dynamics untouched to see your speed again going up

And after few attempts you end up without brakes at all and trains run away:p

[ShadowSteel18 [The Otaku]]

Originalmente postado por paweuek:

Originalmente postado por jalsina:

You apply the dynamics (3rd icon) at 100%. Then when the speed builds near your maximum road speed you apply air brakes for a few seconds. You see your speed decreasing and you release air brakes as needed leaving your dynamics untouched to see your speed again going up

And after few attempts you end up without brakes at all and trains run away:p

That's true. I've only used the dynamic brakes successfully once an that was on an 0.8% grade downhill.