Bossman Games Stanier 8F

[Chili Peanut]

Hi everyone,
I'm having real trouble with the 8F on the Shap & Eden Valley route. The loco will not maintain steam pressure at all. Granted, there are steep gradients on the route and train weight too (which I have kept respectable). I also am aware that BMG allocate a random "age factor" to the locos and some don't steam well as others but this is really bad, i'm driving one of the clean liveried 8f's with only 15 wagons with the regulator at 15% blowers on and dampers open and still losing steam. I have tried the same with MeshTools' LNWR G2 and had results which were fine.

What's going on?

[Chicken Balti]

The route was a long hard slog in steam days without a banker, so never too easy without one.
Be ready to sacrifice speed for a little more steam being generated and jiggle that reverser to find a good balance with your regulator setting.
You might be down to 10mph, but better that than stopping.
Best.

[trev123]

Have you got enough coal on the fire? BMG locos tell you in their manuals how much coal should be on the fire. It is called fire mass as viewed in the F5 HUD. Another thing when going up a gradient in a Steam loco isn't like driving a car up a hill. Keep the boiler pressure up to around where the valve blows and just let the engine slow down while still maintaining the pressure. The loco will slow down to a point where it won't slow down anymore but will maintain that speed even if it is just 5 mph. Don't try and force it to go faster as as you have found out you run out of steam. Just wait until the gradient lessons and the loco picks up speed by itself. Yes, I have the BMG 8F and most of their other locos.

[Chili Peanut]

Hi both,
Yes without trying to sound unappreciative I have tried the “fine balance” between regulator, reverser, Fire and Water. I overstoke the fire by around 20lbs and try to keep it there. Only topping water up when I really have to. Like I say regulator open about 20%.

I tried the exact run with the same wagons on the LNWR G2 and although I was averaging 11mph I made the summit. I got nowhere near with the 8f.

As an aside are there any steam locos in train sim that can be double headed?

[trev123]

Is this a scenario for this route or a quick drive one that you made up?

[Chicken Balti]

As a real world steam driver and as we say on the footplate, sometimes a fair bit of 'jiggling around' is required with the regulator and reverser, to find that sweet spot between speed and power at the rail whilst still generating boiler steam.

[JohnnyR]

Originally posted by Chili Peanut:

As an aside are there any steam locos in train sim that can be double headed?

Almost all can, although results are not always perfect - especially if the locomotives concerned are designed to run at different boiler pressures. From memory, I'm sure there are scenarios provided with the route you mention that involve double-heading. I haven't ever tried it with Bossman Games locomotives, though.

John

[Chicken Balti]

In addition, don't overfill your boiler, which will leave less physical space for generated steam. Always have your fire built up 'before' reaching tougher gradients and your boiler water level at two thirds of a glass. Always remember, cold coal added to the firebox will always lower the firebox temperature at first, until fully ignited and releasing energy to raise temperatures and steam generation rate.
Only open the fire hole door to fire with the regulator open, then shut quickly when working hard to reduce cold 'secondary air' lowering the firebox temperature and boiler tubes temperatures. Don't allow 'to much primary air' through the dampers, which will also reduce firebox temperatures, but they should be open if working hard. Injecting water into the boiler when working hard will lower the boiler water temperature and steam generation rate. Allow the water level to fall to one third of a glass if working hard, then turn on the injector.

[Chili Peanut]

Originally posted by trev123:

Is this a scenario for this route or a quick drive one that you made up?

This is a free roam scenario. Engine starting with 100% coal and water.

In response to others, I have tried the “jiggling” to maintain steam pressure.

If no one else has had issues I will persist. It’s just no other steam loco seems to struggle as much as the 8F, which should be a heavy freight loco.

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by Chili Peanut:

Originally posted by trev123:

Is this a scenario for this route or a quick drive one that you made up?

This is a free roam scenario. Engine starting with 100% coal and water.

In response to others, I have tried the “jiggling” to maintain steam pressure.

If no one else has had issues I will persist. It’s just no other steam loco seems to struggle as much as the 8F, which should be a heavy freight loco.

You may be unlucky and being allocated a very worn 8F in Quick Drive each time. I do note you said the regulator is only open around 15% (first valve). The engine would need to be in what's called 'Second Valve' to release enough power at the rail to tackle tough gradients. Check your F5 Hud for true regulator detail. Try just over 50% to get that regulator second valve open, then adjust the reverser to that steam generation sweet spot that also maintains your speed, even if slow.
If you are in second valve, remember to quickly fully open the regulator then close it to return to shut or first valve positions.

[Chili Peanut]

Hi Chicken Balti,
Just had a test run on The Port Road with the 8F and I think the reverser was where I was going wrong.

I’ve found the steam pressure will drop if I have the regulator open but the reverser “holding the loco back”. Once I open the reverser a bit more and the loco continues to accelerate, steam pressure builds again.

Why is this in reality? I never realised loco’s operated like that. I always assumed steam pressure was one thing and the reverser acted as the “gears”

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by Chili Peanut:

Hi Chicken Balti,
Just had a test run on The Port Road with the 8F and I think the reverser was where I was going wrong.

I’ve found the steam pressure will drop if I have the regulator open but the reverser “holding the loco back”. Once I open the reverser a bit more and the loco continues to accelerate, steam pressure builds again.

Why is this in reality? I never realised loco’s operated like that. I always assumed steam pressure was one thing and the reverser acted as the “gears”

Hello, 'Back Pressure' within the cylinders will act a little like a small brake application once the engine starts to gain speed, if you have not 'notched up' as we say.
In other words, start moving the reverser further towards 'mid-gear' as speed builds, but take into account the gradients ahead, which may then result in having to 'notch down' again to maintain speed or at least slow down the speed reduction occurring from climbing the gradient being traversed. All of which impacts the steam generation rate too.
If you want to know 'a lot more', the link below will give you a PDF of what's known as the Engineman's 'Bible' or 'Black Book' of Steam Locomotive operation, used by all engine crews when training and studied before taking exams. Adapted for use all over the world in steam days.
Best.
http://www.public-library.uk/dailyebook/Handbook%20for%20Railway%20Steam%20Locomotive%20Enginemen.pdf

[Chili Peanut]

That’s brilliant, thank you for all your help, couldn’t have asked for a better answer!

[Chicken Balti]

Enjoy and remember, just like real life on the footplate, knowing your route ahead like the back of your hand, is more than half the battle won.
Best.