DTG LGV: Can someone explain KVB to me ?

[KajFlo]

Hi !

Driving towards Marseille TVM goes of and KVB shows me --- ---
Now the speed changes down to 110kmh and later to 60kmh but KVB just shows --- ---
i see no indication of these speed changes.

Can someone help me ?
Isnt KVB supposed to act and warn me of speed changes or show me the next maximum allowed speed ?

[KajFlo]

No one knows ?
Youtube seems to have no tutorial either and the manual is abysmal.

[TMarc]

Some information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contr%C3%B4le_de_vitesse_par_balises
Looks like you have to memorize the speed limits yourself and drive accordingly (not the first time this happens on TS routes).

[Chicken Balti]

Hello KajFlo, as a real driver, you are required to learn the route like the back of your hand before driving over it yourself on your own and then only after exensive route learning over a long period with a second driver or traction inspector onboard and already passed out on that route.
You would take an examination required to pass before driving the route on your own for the first time.
Some train protection systems indicate signal/junction/PSR required speeds to the driver, some don't and on those routes you would know in real life the speeds required for the above reasons.
'Learning the road' as we say. The more you drive over the route, the better you will become at adjusting your speed accordingly as you learn the road.
Best.

[KajFlo]

Well the wikipedia thing says:

"It checks and controls the speed of moving trains"

So thats what i was asking:
How does KVB work ?
How does it "control" the speed ?

It just shows --- ---

Also i dont believe that there is no indication of the speed changes on the real route.
The manual tells about speed signs, i just can see them.
And i tells about KVB but in a very abysmal way i dont understand it...

[Scouser888]

I think that only applies when the TVM signalling is in effect. Once you get close to Marseille, you have to adhere to the lineside speed signs. If you use the HUD, it will notify you of speed changes. You might also have to change the pantograph settings, as outlined on page 20 of the manual.

[KajFlo]

TVM and KVB are two seperate things.
If you operate the train under TVM signaling then the KVB doesn nothing at all.

[Chicken Balti]

I have no idea about some detail within train protection systems in use abroad but my last post applies worldwide to all types of system used, you still have to learn the road and 'pass out' on that route regardless, before driving over them on your own.
Best.

[KajFlo]

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

I have no idea about some detail within train protection systems in use abroad but my last post applies worldwide to all types of system used, you still have to learn the road and 'pass out' on that route regardless, before driving over them on your own.
Best.

Sure but i'm interested in how the system works. I think such monitoring andd safety systems are there for a reason, learning the route is another thing.

[KajFlo]

Look here for example:
https://youtu.be/-J2JZFptG9s

max. Speed changes to 60kmh but i see no speed bord, nothing.
And KVB just displays --- ---

Whats the deal ?

[TMarc]

If you know french, or use an adequate translator: http://marc.godard.pagesperso-orange.fr/kvb/kvb.htm
The french Wikipedia article https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contr%C3%B4le_de_vitesse_par_balises links to a word document which also contains lot of information.

But if you want to know how to use KVB in TS, it should be described in the manual (try the english version if the german is not helpful enough).
Probably you have to enable the KVB system when leaving the high speed track.
There should be some announcement, either by track panels or in the HUD.
I guess it is similar to PZB usage on german tracks.

[Microsan]

If you really want to have a piece of introduction on how he kvb works please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contr%C3B4le_de_vitesse_par_balises

If I have well understood it's a radio or wireless signal used to send information about the train in order to protect it. Even if does not show speed itself, it's also a warning systtem to inform driver is entering too fast in a section of the track.

If I'm not mistaken it's not properly implemented in TS now (or if it is it is not reliable yet)

As other users suggest, the best opttion will be actually to know the line as much as possible.

[KajFlo]

Originally posted by microsan94:

If I'm not mistaken it's not properly implemented in TS now (or if it is it is not reliable yet)

Is there any source to that ? That KVB is buggy or not working at all ?

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by KajFlo:

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

I have no idea about some detail within train protection systems in use abroad but my last post applies worldwide to all types of system used, you still have to learn the road and 'pass out' on that route regardless, before driving over them on your own.
Best.

Sure but i'm interested in how the system works. I think such monitoring andd safety systems are there for a reason, learning the route is another thing.

No, not another thing KajFlo, all part of exensive route learning, speed indications are not always present on the ground sometimes. The driver still has to know what those speed reductions are anyway at certain points.
Think about it logicly, even if a speed reduction 'was' indicated on the ground, there could be a situation where the speed indicator has fallen over through damage or wear and not lit at night anyway. That is why in real life it does not matter, the driver knows the approaching speed before he gets there because he knows the route backwards after intensive training first.
Don't forget too, the driver carries with him lots of paperwork that applies to that route. That paperwork includes all operating notes, including all permanent speed reductions in place.
Any changes to that carried paperwork including new temporey or emergency speed reductions and their location are posted every day/night in the 'Late Notice Case' when booking on.
All drivers and crews are required as part of their job to study the late notice case before working their train. Paper copies of those changes are made available too, so the driver can update his own paperwork. That includes rule book changes.
Best.

[KajFlo]

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

Originally posted by KajFlo:

Sure but i'm interested in how the system works. I think such monitoring andd safety systems are there for a reason, learning the route is another thing.

No, not another thing KajFlo, all part of exensive route learning, speed indications are not always present on the ground sometimes.

Yeah but i asked about the KVB and why there is no speed indications on the signals.
Do you have any proof that they are not there on the real route ?

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by KajFlo:

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

No, not another thing KajFlo, all part of exensive route learning, speed indications are not always present on the ground sometimes.

Yeah but i asked about the KVB and why there is no speed indications on the signals.
Do you have any proof that they are not there on the real route ?

Sorry, never been there, however, as I said, speed indications are not always present on some routes worldwide.
Best.