Driving GWR Pannier (tank engine) Uphill

[McDuders]

This maybe a dumb question since I should probably know this, but every time I try to drive Pannier uphill in one of the career modes, the speed goes down no matter what I do. I try to retain steam by turning the reverser and throttle down, and I try to push the throttle and reverser up to get speed instead of steam. I try all sorts of combinations of things, but when I get to what's not even that steep of a gradient to begin with, my speed always goes down.

How do I speed up on hills with this thing? If you want to try the career mode out, it's Good Run to Goodrington in Riviera in the Fifties.

[AllyourKitty]

Panniers don't like hills very much, if you are climbing make sure you have the dampers open and keep the fire well stoked.

[Chicken Balti]

Hello Matt, as a driver on real Panniers over the years, they are well capable of tackling hills, the 57xx in Riviera 50's is not far short of a Class 5 power wise. If you are driving in 'realistic' mode, keep an eye on your Vacuum Gauge in the cab (or Hud) when driving, at slower speeds below 20mph the Vacuum pump fitted to all ex-GWR engines is not able to maintain full vacuum to keep the brakes off fully and they can drag slowing your train down.
If you notice vacuum falling, move your combination brake to the full release position to engage the combined steam ejector to create full vacuum again. Then return to the running position but keep an eye on that vacuum gauge all the time and repeat when needed.
Regarding your other driving controls, reduce your reverser set positions towards midgear as much as possible and adjust your regulator to maintain speed as best you can, no need for full regulator, just enough to maintain a healthy steam chest pressure below boiler pressure (use F5 to read both values when driving).
Best.

[trev123]

I have completed this scenario. When in the climb the reverser should be at about 35% and also the regulator. Your speed in the climb shouldn't drop around about 20mph. Keep the boiler pressure in the green and don't go below about 185 psi using the reverser. This is using the F4 hud.. Keep the fire level between 45 and 50%, I also found that putting the blower on at 20mph helps. Read page 52 in the TS2016 manual on how to drive a steam loco.

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by trev123:

I have completed this scenario. When in the climb the reverser should be at about 35% and also the regulator. Your speed in the climb shouldn't drop around about 20mph. Keep the boiler pressure in the green and don't go below about 185 psi using the reverser. This is using the F4 hud.. Keep the fire level between 45 and 50%, I also found that putting the blower on at 20mph helps. Read page 52 in the TS2016 manual on how to drive a steam loco.

Hello trev123, don't place too much faith in the TS2016 how to drive a steam engine manual. It contains errors, for example 'blower use'. As a steam engine instructor/driver/fireman I can assure you the blower should never ever be turned off, it is the only control keeping the fire in the firebox at all times and not in the cab. TS2016 has blower use incorrectly described and simulated.
Regards.

[Chicken Balti]

For further informed detailed reading on how to operate Steam Engines, follow the link below to the 'Black Book' or 'Bible'. This publication re-issued in 1957 is still used by me and other instructors to train footplate crews. They all have their own copy for study and all exams from cleaner through to fireman then driver, are based on the detailed information contained within this publication as used in steam days.
Best.
https://archive.org/details/HandbookForRailwaySteamLocomotiveEnginemen

[CockneyRebel]

@ Chicken Balti.

Thanks for the link my friend.

[kevin1957]

would it also be advisable to engage sander for added traction?

[trev123]

No only if you have wheel slip. That shows up in the F4 hud when you have wheel slip.

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by kevin1957:

would it also be advisable to engage sander for added traction?

Hello Kevin and trev123, in reality, a driver expecting wheel slip due to bad rail conditions and a heavy train, would operate the sanders before slipping. One of the most misunderstood topics is sanders and when to use them. In reality once again, a driver would never ever use sanders when the engine is under power and actualy slipping, that could cause major damage to wheels/axles and motion if only one side of the engines driving wheels found grip again (common sense if you think about it). The driver would close the regulator 'first' and only then apply sand 'once the wheels had stopped slipping'. Only then would he apply power again.
It may also be of interest to note when an engine has most grip, does anyone know the correct answer?
Regards

[GeneralGeldenhuys]

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

It may also be of interest to note when an engine has most grip, does anyone know the correct answer?

The engine will have the most grip on the tracks before slipping. Am I right? If not, then I blame my physic books!

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by GeneralGeldenhuys:

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

It may also be of interest to note when an engine has most grip, does anyone know the correct answer?

The engine will have the most grip on the tracks before slipping. Am I right? If not, then I blame my physic books!

Yes General, correct answer, although the full answer is 'just before slipping'. Again, logical when you think about it
Regards.

[McDuders]

I didn't realize at first that it was ok for the train to drop to 20. I just kind of assumed that I needed to meet around the speed limit for most of it. Well, I managed to beat the career with a gold star and only 9 points off. Thanks, guys!

[jimoates014]

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

Originally posted by GeneralGeldenhuys:

The engine will have the most grip on the tracks before slipping. Am I right? If not, then I blame my physic books!

Yes General, correct answer, although the full answer is 'just before slipping'. Again, logical when you think about it
Regards.

If my failing memory serves, CB, when the EMD class 59 was introduced to this country, it was reported that it achieved its feats of haulage by the loco's electronics limiting the power such that it was only just slipping, thus gaining maximum traction, something obviously not possible with steam traction.

[Chicken Balti]

Originally posted by jimoates014:

Originally posted by Chicken Balti:

Yes General, correct answer, although the full answer is 'just before slipping'. Again, logical when you think about it
Regards.

If my failing memory serves, CB, when the EMD class 59 was introduced to this country, it was reported that it achieved its feats of haulage by the loco's electronics limiting the power such that it was only just slipping, thus gaining maximum traction, something obviously not possible with steam traction.

Hello jimoates014, not quite correct but almost, the electronics constantly sense when the wheels are miliseconds into a slip and then regulates pulse power to the wheelsets to maintain full traction again and so prevent a full slip (this all happens automaticly many times a second).
The maximum grip just before a slip is a rule for every type of wheel regardless of what mode of transport the wheel is fitted too.
Regards.

[musical_pete]

The dampers on the pannier seem to be closed by default, make sure to find the handle on the cab floor and open them or you'll not get the fire hot enough.