This or TSW 3?

[Heru Ra Ha]

Hey guys,

I recently got interested in train simulators via TSW 3 (which I do not own) I remember this game and that it has alot of DLCs, i was quite confused to see that DTG seem to work on this one and TSW as well.

Is the classic train simulator still supported ( does it get patches and will have further development from the devs) or are the 3rd party content providers keeping the game alive?

Does it make sense for new players aka me to still get this one over tsw3 or should I just get comfy with tsw3 as TS might have reached the end of cycle? I do not want to offend anyone but please understand that it is somewhat confusing to understand the situation here so I think it is best to just ask about it

Kind Regards,
Heru

[Nicko]

I had that discussion with a friend the other day. I believe TS is far from reaching its end of life. In fact I believe it will be around when TSW will have been abandoned. The reason is simple: there are hundreds of still selling DLCs for TS and still publishing more but much, much, much... much less for TSW. That makes TS a gold mine for DTG. Would you abandone a gold mine? No. Neither would DTG. On the other hand there have been recent "issues" with TSW management by DTG and I know people returning to TS after TSW2 instead of moving to TSW3. The TSW series was an attempt by DTG to modernize rail gaming and take over TS, not having to support two similar games but the way things evolved it seems to have failed in that.

[JJTimothy]

Any reason not to get both? I have both and prefer TS- it might be just that I am much more familiar with TS but, although I enjoy TSW and it is undeniably better technically, I find it a bit lifeless somehow.

TS is very old and isn't getting much in the way of updates these days but it's markedly different from TSW, it has far more and a far greater variety of DLC (of varying quality it must be admitted) and there's still plenty of content being released for it including from third parties. The game itself can be obtained quite cheaply if you grab an older edition from a key reseller- it would install through Steam of course and you'd get the latest version of the core program so needn't worry about the backwards compatibility of newer DLC. Pity you've just missed the Humble Bundle offer.

[sbmarauderman03]

TSC just had an update today...

Heru, it really depends on what you want/desire from a train simulator as TSC and TSW each have their own calling. I suggest you visit YouTube and watch some of the 1000s of videos of gameplay from each to help you determine which one you feel suits your needs. TSC and it's DLCs can be had for relatively low cost if you do some research and can be patient. In fact, you can get just the base game and still get 100s of hours of gameplay just from the freeware available on Steam workshop and many other 3rd party sites.

[mojo_musica]

Both have advantages and disadvantages. TSC is old and looks it, but the range of DLC, both paid-for and free, is truly enormous. You can get a complete route and all rolling stock, or just one single loco, and it spans all the eras, from Victorian/Edwardian steam to the latest current trains.
TSW3 looks great, it runs on an old game engine, Unreal Engine, but is a different graphical experience, ,which some people value above game play. The range of routes is limited, you can't really buy individual locos or rolling stock, all the routes are from DTG. If you like steam, they have only recently released the first steam routes and it wasn't a massive success.
There is also a big problem with the business plan DTG have for the TSW games. They have abandoned two versions (TSW and TSW2) and caused a huge uproar by trying to force players to buy a new version at full price, for what seems to be a free update in TSC. A trawl through the Steam forums of both TSW2 and TSW3 will reveal how polarising this move was, and it doesn't seem to have got any better.
I have TSC and TSW2, with a large amount of DLC for TSC and a few DLC for TSW2, I play both games a fair amount, but TSC the most, for the variety in routes and trains. The size of the back catalogue of DLC for TSC is daunting, but it's like a model train layout, you only have to buy what you want, and the good news is it can be very cheap and even free, for some of the best add-ons.
I think the Steam sale on at the moment has the game and 4 DLC routes bundled for about £14, which is half the price of one DLC route in TSW3, and Humble bundle had an offer of £350-worth of DLC for £12, which would be enough to keep any train sim fan happy for a long time for very little money.
They are both enjoyable, but it is all down to personal preference, great graphics, higher prices and fewer routes, or vast amounts of content at reasonable cost with an old game engine.

[patrick.wadsworth]

I think it also depends on how much you want up to date graphics. If you are as interested in driving the trains then TSC is great as there are loads of DLCs and if you wait they can be bought for very little money. It does not have the fluffy clouds, amazing sunsets, reflections off metal surfaces like TSWn has but do these add to the 'driving' element of the game? I have TSC and TSW2 and spend most of my time in TSC as I have hundreds of DLCs so can travel the world and drive trains :)

[Heru Ra Ha]

So first off, thank you everyone for your time and your answers.

Originally posted by Nicko:

I had that discussion with a friend the other day. I believe TS is far from reaching its end of life. In fact I believe it will be around when TSW will have been abandoned. The reason is simple: there are hundreds of still selling DLCs for TS and still publishing more but much, much, much... much less for TSW. That makes TS a gold mine for DTG. Would you abandone a gold mine? No. Neither would DTG. On the other hand there have been recent "issues" with TSW management by DTG and I know people returning to TS after TSW2 instead of moving to TSW3. The TSW series was an attempt by DTG to modernize rail gaming and take over TS, not having to support two similar games but the way things evolved it seems to have failed in that.

I already wrote that I am new to the games so sorry that I do not know the history the "games" have. To me it seemed like you usually make a new game when you no longer want to support the old one due to limitations of the engine mostly. So I see that DTG are the dev/publisher of both and got confused as to whether they keep supporting TSC or not since like it would make sense to no longer do so in order to get most users to the new platform which would be TSW.

Well for a newcomer to those games it is difficult to understand, ofc they made alot of money given the content for tsc but you don't know whether they keep supporting, updating and fixing some bugs before you ask.

Thanks for your opinion and view on things.

Originally posted by JJTimothy:

Any reason not to get both? I have both and prefer TS- it might be just that I am much more familiar with TS but, although I enjoy TSW and it is undeniably better technically, I find it a bit lifeless somehow.

TS is very old and isn't getting much in the way of updates these days but it's markedly different from TSW, it has far more and a far greater variety of DLC (of varying quality it must be admitted) and there's still plenty of content being released for it including from third parties. The game itself can be obtained quite cheaply if you grab an older edition from a key reseller- it would install through Steam of course and you'd get the latest version of the core program so needn't worry about the backwards compatibility of newer DLC. Pity you've just missed the Humble Bundle offer.

Probably due to the fact that I am interested in trains but not to the amount that i will randomly go and buy games, I hope to figure out which one is right for me and have fun with it. I understand that tsc has been around for a long time so when you have been with the game for a long time too you are not put off by the price for the amount of dlc. So me as a newbee to it, i also did not want to buy into a "dead" game. Because I was unable to grasp the situation regarding DTG who are responsible for tsc and tsw.

For me it seems like one dev making 2 games which are direct competitors, like EA doing FIFA and ProEvo at the same time, i hope that makes sense.

It is just my luck ;) but I will probably rather just get the tsc and start and figure out what I want to get and be patient for good deals. If I do enjoy tsc, i might try out tsw later I just get the vibe that tsc seems to have a better feeling to it when you do not care as much about graphics which is fine with me.

Thank you for your input and advice.

Originally posted by sbmarauderman03:

TSC just had an update today...

Heru, it really depends on what you want/desire from a train simulator as TSC and TSW each have their own calling. I suggest you visit YouTube and watch some of the 1000s of videos of gameplay from each to help you determine which one you feel suits your needs. TSC and it's DLCs can be had for relatively low cost if you do some research and can be patient. In fact, you can get just the base game and still get 100s of hours of gameplay just from the freeware available on Steam workshop and many other 3rd party sites.

Uhm I don't know that there is a way to see updates for the games besides you actually owning it so no need to facepalm, I just didn't know better and rather ask people about it.

As written above, I just didn't want to make the "mistake" of buying into a dead game, dead in the sense of no more support because due to making 2 games that compete with each other over the same playerbase.

I did watch gameplay videos and probably gonna watch some more but when the routes are long and I am super cozy in front of the pc, i tend to nod off much like when I am on a train. The vids I have seen so far will mostly talk about the features, locos, routes of the video itself and not drawing comparisons between both platforms. I will check whether there are people doing that, good idea.

Also thanks for pointing out that steam workshop exists for tsc, I wasn't aware of that.

Thank you for your input and advice.

Originally posted by mojo_musica:

Both have advantages and disadvantages. TSC is old and looks it, but the range of DLC, both paid-for and free, is truly enormous. You can get a complete route and all rolling stock, or just one single loco, and it spans all the eras, from Victorian/Edwardian steam to the latest current trains.
TSW3 looks great, it runs on an old game engine, Unreal Engine, but is a different graphical experience, ,which some people value above game play. The range of routes is limited, you can't really buy individual locos or rolling stock, all the routes are from DTG. If you like steam, they have only recently released the first steam routes and it wasn't a massive success.
There is also a big problem with the business plan DTG have for the TSW games. They have abandoned two versions (TSW and TSW2) and caused a huge uproar by trying to force players to buy a new version at full price, for what seems to be a free update in TSC. A trawl through the Steam forums of both TSW2 and TSW3 will reveal how polarising this move was, and it doesn't seem to have got any better.
I have TSC and TSW2, with a large amount of DLC for TSC and a few DLC for TSW2, I play both games a fair amount, but TSC the most, for the variety in routes and trains. The size of the back catalogue of DLC for TSC is daunting, but it's like a model train layout, you only have to buy what you want, and the good news is it can be very cheap and even free, for some of the best add-ons.
I think the Steam sale on at the moment has the game and 4 DLC routes bundled for about £14, which is half the price of one DLC route in TSW3, and Humble bundle had an offer of £350-worth of DLC for £12, which would be enough to keep any train sim fan happy for a long time for very little money.
They are both enjoyable, but it is all down to personal preference, great graphics, higher prices and fewer routes, or vast amounts of content at reasonable cost with an old game engine.

Thanks for the input and your view on things, you too like the other people above made me rather go for TSC instead of tsw (which I might purchase on a later date), I really appreciate that you guys take the time to answer me these questions.

Does DTG not allow 3rd party devs to produce content for tsw? Because you point out that everything is made by DTG which seems like an odd move given that when you allow 3rd party contributions you will have more content and have less pressure on yourself due to the fact that more content is produced.

Thanks again!

Originally posted by patrick.wadsworth:

I think it also depends on how much you want up to date graphics. If you are as interested in driving the trains then TSC is great as there are loads of DLCs and if you wait they can be bought for very little money. It does not have the fluffy clouds, amazing sunsets, reflections off metal surfaces like TSWn has but do these add to the 'driving' element of the game? I have TSC and TSW2 and spend most of my time in TSC as I have hundreds of DLCs so can travel the world and drive trains :)

Yeah like I already stated above, I kinda tend more towards tsc since you guys confirmed that a) the game is still alive and getting worked on by the devs and b) it has the superior gameplay c) there is steam workshop and since I am not a graphics ♥♥♥♥♥, I will go with tsc and just give it a go

So yeah thank you everyone, for your time and giving your own view on my questions, I do appreciate it. Right now I lean heavily towards tsc, will watch a few more videos on it and afterwards most likely purchase.

Have a good one and take care

[nyrmetros]

TSW3 hardly seems worth it IMO. I have TSC and TSW and TSW2.... I just don't see the point. I just want Quick Drive anyway.

[sbmarauderman03]

Steam workshop isn't the only place to get freeware for TSC; the link below is a great source for a lot of 3rd party sites:

https://www.railserve.com/Computers/Rail_Simulator/

Also, if you click on the 'All' tab above, there's a post about the update that came out yesterday about the update; you don't have to own the game to get this info as it's available on Steam. I brought this up b/c several people posted in this thread that the game no longer gets updates, which is not true.

TSC does have a fair amount of issues/bugs/etc, especially with older routes and DLCs that have not and will not be fixed; some are considered game-breaking while others not so much. It's important to do a bit of research on the routes/DLCs you may be interested in before you buy to possibly avoid 'buyers remorse'...again, this is dependent on what type of gameplay you want/desire from this simulator.

At any rate, good luck and hope you enjoy TSC if you decide to 'hop aboard'...(I know, BOOOO...lol)

[JJTimothy]

Originally posted by Heru Ra Ha:

Originally posted by JJTimothy:

Any reason not to get both? I have both and prefer TS- it might be just that I am much more familiar with TS but, although I enjoy TSW and it is undeniably better technically, I find it a bit lifeless somehow.

TS is very old and isn't getting much in the way of updates these days but it's markedly different from TSW, it has far more and a far greater variety of DLC (of varying quality it must be admitted) and there's still plenty of content being released for it including from third parties. The game itself can be obtained quite cheaply if you grab an older edition from a key reseller- it would install through Steam of course and you'd get the latest version of the core program so needn't worry about the backwards compatibility of newer DLC. Pity you've just missed the Humble Bundle offer.

Probably due to the fact that I am interested in trains but not to the amount that i will randomly go and buy games, I hope to figure out which one is right for me and have fun with it...

If there's anything you're particularly interested in, be it broadly like US trains or specifically such as a loco' or the line you live or lived near, you will be far more likely to find something relating to it in TS with its vast back catalogue of DLC.

Originally posted by Heru Ra Ha:

I understand that tsc has been around for a long time so when you have been with the game for a long time too you are not put off by the price for the amount of dlc.

I've had TS for just over seven years now amassing well over thirty routes and a variety of rolling stock which has cost me getting on for £200. I don't know what you think but, looking at it that way, it seems like a lot to me but I've also logged over 2,000 hours and when I think of it as 10p an hour I have few qualms.

The amount and variety of DLC shouldn't put you off at all. Choice is a good thing and no-one but the most rabid train buff would buy all of it any more than you'd go to WH Smiths and buy a copy of every book they sell. To me it makes sense to think of TS as a platform with each route a game that you can run on that platform and rolling stock DLC being something you can use to enhance one (or usually many more) of those games.

The DLC sold in Steam is certainly not all that is available for TS BTW- count third party developers including freeware and it's probably not even half.

Originally posted by Heru Ra Ha:

...i also did not want to buy into a "dead" game. Because I was unable to grasp the situation regarding DTG who are responsible for tsc and tsw.

For me it seems like one dev making 2 games which are direct competitors, like EA doing FIFA and ProEvo at the same time, i hope that makes sense.

TS is at kind of a developmental dead end with a custom game engine that Dovetail daren't tinker with too much for fear that they'll break compatibility with older DLC that users have been collecting and enjoying for years. It's far from dead though since Dovetail still develop content themselves and even if they stopped they would continue to profit from it enough to be worth supporting for some time. Support is bound to end one day I suppose but even then TS wouldn't just stop working.

Although TSW is graphically superior, TS can still look good. Have a look on YouTube for footage of both for comparison.

The biggest bugbear with TS is that it doesn't support current hardware very well hence the development of TSW using Unreal as the engine.

Originally posted by Heru Ra Ha:

...I will probably rather just get the tsc and start and figure out what I want to get and be patient for good deals. If I do enjoy tsc, i might try out tsw later I just get the vibe that tsc seems to have a better feeling to it when you do not care as much about graphics which is fine with me.

Sounds eminently sensible. There's a sale on at the moment but finding a Steam key for an older edition of TS is likely to still be the cheapest option and you may well find one with a bundle of routes that appeals to you more than the current offering.

[Heru Ra Ha]

Originally posted by nyrmetros:

TSW3 hardly seems worth it IMO. I have TSC and TSW and TSW2.... I just don't see the point. I just want Quick Drive anyway.

Well in the end I got it, too. The more I thought about getting both, I was like well it increases the chances of having a good deal and probably out of curiosity I would pick it up sooner or later anyway. So while I got the key for tsc, i just saw that good price on tsw3 and i just got both for less than 30€ (tsw3 deluxe so it seems okay).

Yeah I don't even know what quick drive but assume you basicly hop into a random loco on a random route.

Originally posted by sbmarauderman03:

Steam workshop isn't the only place to get freeware for TSC; the link below is a great source for a lot of 3rd party sites:

https://www.railserve.com/Computers/Rail_Simulator/

Also, if you click on the 'All' tab above, there's a post about the update that came out yesterday about the update; you don't have to own the game to get this info as it's available on Steam. I brought this up b/c several people posted in this thread that the game no longer gets updates, which is not true.

TSC does have a fair amount of issues/bugs/etc, especially with older routes and DLCs that have not and will not be fixed; some are considered game-breaking while others not so much. It's important to do a bit of research on the routes/DLCs you may be interested in before you buy to possibly avoid 'buyers remorse'...again, this is dependent on what type of gameplay you want/desire from this simulator.

At any rate, good luck and hope you enjoy TSC if you decide to 'hop aboard'...(I know, BOOOO...lol)

Thanks for the info. The site is like huge and it is so many links and I thought the dlcs + workshop was already so full for tsc lol.

I heard about some stability issues in some videos, they seem to be less frequent on tsw3 but both platforms have their pros and cons. It can't hurt to give both games a go, along the way I hopefully find out what I prefer. For now I will hop into the tutorials and get around how to actually drive a train :) In the end I want to have fun, learn something new and relax at the same time

Yeah I tried to check on some dlcs when I was checking on ts collection on a seller site. Is there something in particular how you research the quality of the dlcs? I mean I can look at user reviews on steam but how do you handle 3rd party content via youtube / google or certain forums?

Thanks again !

Originally posted by JJTimothy:

If there's anything you're particularly interested in, be it broadly like US trains or specifically such as a loco' or the line you live or lived near, you will be far more likely to find something relating to it in TS with its vast back catalogue of DLC.

The way you said it in you described the content available for tsc is something I do really value because I think there is something great about locos from diffrent eras and tsc offers me to explore them so that is good since i am curios.

Originally posted by JJTimothy:

I've had TS for just over seven years now amassing well over thirty routes and a variety of rolling stock which has cost me getting on for £200. I don't know what you think but, looking at it that way, it seems like a lot to me but I've also logged over 2,000 hours and when I think of it as 10p an hour I have few qualms.

Seems to me like you got good value for your money. I mean even if it is less than 2000hrs say 1000, it all depends whether you enjoy that time. 1000hrs of having a good time for 200 seems good too. Most hobbies do cost money, kinda odd how in gaming it is common to determine value by time/cost when with other hobbies people, at least in my experience rarely ever do that.

Originally posted by JJTimothy:

The amount and variety of DLC shouldn't put you off at all. Choice is a good thing and no-one but the most rabid train buff would buy all of it any more than you'd go to WH Smiths and buy a copy of every book they sell. To me it makes sense to think of TS as a platform with each route a game that you can run on that platform and rolling stock DLC being something you can use to enhance one (or usually many more) of those games.

The DLC sold in Steam is certainly not all that is available for TS BTW- count third party developers including freeware and it's probably not even half.

You are right about that. It is just difficult when you are new to all this content and try to figure out what you like and what you want. Like I imagine when you have been with the game for 7 years you probably have a good estimate of the content available for the game your knowledge grows the longer you stick around. For me right now I am just baffled by all that is available.

Originally posted by JJTimothy:

TS is at kind of a developmental dead end with a custom game engine that Dovetail daren't tinker with too much for fear that they'll break compatibility with older DLC that users have been collecting and enjoying for years. It's far from dead though since Dovetail still develop content themselves and even if they stopped they would continue to profit from it enough to be worth supporting for some time. Support is bound to end one day I suppose but even then TS wouldn't just stop working.

Amazing when you think about it, really cool that they kept the compability of older dlcs for so long. I hope they manage to transfer that into TSW as well so that one can grow too.

Originally posted by JJTimothy:

Although TSW is graphically superior, TS can still look good. Have a look on YouTube for footage of both for comparison.

The biggest bugbear with TS is that it doesn't support current hardware very well hence the development of TSW using Unreal as the engine.

That certainly is a negative but not everyone has a very good rig in order to enjoy the graphics offered by tsw3 in one video somebody mentioned motion blur can render some parts of a loco look bad, whether that is true I don't know but both have cons/pros.

Originally posted by JJTimothy:

Sounds eminently sensible. There's a sale on at the moment but finding a Steam key for an older edition of TS is likely to still be the cheapest option and you may well find one with a bundle of routes that appeals to you more than the current offering.

[/quote]

Had some red wine and found good offer at a key seller for tsw3 so I picked up both.

Thank you again!

[R3DW0LF_331]

i can't tell ya i haven't played TSW3 (not yet atleast)

[sbmarauderman03]

Originally posted by Heru Ra Ha:

Yeah I tried to check on some dlcs when I was checking on ts collection on a seller site. Is there something in particular how you research the quality of the dlcs? I mean I can look at user reviews on steam but how do you handle 3rd party content via youtube / google or certain forums?

Thanks again !

There are lots of threads on this forum that point out issues with DLCs, so just doing a simple search using the name of the DLC can produce results and sometimes performing a search on Google can as well. People are not shy to voice their displeasure.