Train Simulator Classic 2024

Train Simulator Classic 2024

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Phil BEAN Mar 12, 2021 @ 9:06am
Why are virtually all the German routes so bugged ?
I'm mainly talking the speed limits.

I just decided to try one ignoring the HUD speed and instead relying on signals and trackside signage... and they're still wrong.
Am I missing something? Surely someone at Dovetail has seen this ?? It makes a third of the routes/scenarios completely unplayable.
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Felix.AVMP Mar 12, 2021 @ 9:24am 
This all stems from a very painful fact, that RSC/DTG route creators simply don't understand how German style signaling works.
There are two approaches how to learn German signaling - you can either memorize every single rule (and re-memorize them with every update - and this is a valid approach, make no mistake, but it is time consuming), or you can simply “get hang of it” and just follow it by applying logic, which simply requires certain level of abstraction not everyone is simply put capable of.
The bottom line is therefore pretty simple – if you want to create something based on German signal book, you have to be either diligent – or intelligent, preferably both.
But if you are neither, well, then this is simply a disaster in waiting…

david.artrex Mar 12, 2021 @ 10:35am 
Could you give an example?
electronx Mar 12, 2021 @ 11:02am 
There are a few random bugs, but I didn't find Köln-Koblenz bogus, for example.

The most annoying to me are signals practically missing boards, as well as signal priorities being seemingly random (permissive speed limit over restrictive lights = permission wins). Koblenz-Trier has custom signaling and it's even more like this. Also how Pzb magnets are placed quite randomly, so you don't always have to acknowledge, although it usually doesn't hurt. For a while I kept messing up combined signals (by not acknowledging), coming in a range of varieties.

Over time I just found that German rules are a bit sophisticated, but as a real driver you'd probably know them as part of route knowledge. There have been real life incidents due to inconsistencies, such as a Köln-Koblenz train derailing on a switch, having accelerated after clearing a switch - as you always do, right?

The most prominent issue I'm encountering is the multilayer speed limits: track speed, signal speed, signal expiry force override speed, and one of them wins with the others lingering, thus changing cameras can trigger a speeding penalty momentarily. It's not unique to German routes, you can make it happen in the US (NEC, NJCL), possibly even the UK.
Mountainman Mar 13, 2021 @ 4:57am 
For most german routes it is possible to drive correctly for the most part, if you know a thing or two about german signalling. PZB doesn't always work correctly on some of the worse routes. Other routes are quite good (mostly made by third party developers) and some of them are excellent (Konstanz-Villingen-Hausach).

Which routes are you talking about? Would help to know, to narrow down if it is indeed a route problem or a driver problem. ;-)
Phil BEAN Mar 15, 2021 @ 10:44am 
OK as an example, just did scenario [648] A Winters Return pt2 on the Norddeutsche-Bahn: Kiel - Lubeck Line
Everything OK till I hit the station before Eutin, which you don't stop at. 120kph line. First signal before the station was definitely steady green and I'm pretty sure the 2nd was too. No speed signs or anything on the HUD.
Limit dropped to 60. Speeding.

Then stopped at Eutin.
Departed. Line speed 60. Increased to 70 then suddenly dropped to 40 for about 400m. No signals, no signs, no warning on the HUD. Speeding.

Maybe its about learning the route.. but it just makes you want to avoid the German routes altogether.
Mountainman Mar 15, 2021 @ 1:50pm 
I think Norddeutsche Bahn is actually a bad example. There are also some signal faults in this route. However there is a freeware update which makes a pretty solid route out of what DTG gave us: https://railomanie.eu/filebase/index.php?entry/169-kiel-luebeck-deluxe/
You will need a lot of freeware scenery to make it work though.

As I said earlier, third party routes are much better. Konstanz-Villingen(-Hausach), Münster-Bremen, Freiburg-Basel for example are excellent routes.
Last edited by Mountainman; Mar 15, 2021 @ 1:52pm
Phil BEAN Mar 15, 2021 @ 3:48pm 
I'll check it out.
Can't remember the original route I was driving when I made the first post but it was an ICE3 on a DTG route and it was even worse than the 648 today.
Boris Mar 16, 2021 @ 2:24am 
Because it's dovefail games... they know nothing on how things work, they only care about one thing... MONEY!!! - However as far as I know all DTG german routes have the same thing, poor trackwork, poor signals, and in the most recent routes - extremely pathetic wires! (even Dresden's signals are completely broken and don't work like real life according to posts I've seen). (not forgetting the overuse of assets from 2001 and that the game looks like a PS1 game...
cuavas Mar 16, 2021 @ 4:32am 
Originally posted by Boris:
Because it's dovefail games... they know nothing on how things work, they only care about one thing... MONEY!!! - However as far as I know all DTG german routes have the same thing, poor trackwork, poor signals, and in the most recent routes - extremely pathetic wires! (even Dresden's signals are completely broken and don't work like real life according to posts I've seen). (not forgetting the overuse of assets from 2001 and that the game looks like a PS1 game...
Hi BouncingMad. How long before you start harassing Danny and get banned again?
Boris Mar 16, 2021 @ 4:55am 
Originally posted by cuavas:
Originally posted by Boris:
Because it's dovefail games... they know nothing on how things work, they only care about one thing... MONEY!!! - However as far as I know all DTG german routes have the same thing, poor trackwork, poor signals, and in the most recent routes - extremely pathetic wires! (even Dresden's signals are completely broken and don't work like real life according to posts I've seen). (not forgetting the overuse of assets from 2001 and that the game looks like a PS1 game...
Hi BouncingMad. How long before you start harassing Danny and get banned again?
I haven't been banned? Also, I'm judging DTG as a whole - not just him.
Phil BEAN Mar 16, 2021 @ 6:43am 
It is baffling that they still release these German routes with the speeds/signals all ballsed up. Surely a simple play test of the scenario before release would show the faults. Its baffling.
electronx Mar 16, 2021 @ 9:17am 
It's not just German.
Playing the NJCL / NJT GP40PH-2B and... well, it's a nice loco for quick drives. Full power can't meet the timetable. Must ignore restrictive signals. Only by disabling (not enabling) all safety systems.
The NJCL itself has a few signaling issues, mostly a few Approach signals in the middle of nowhere, but there is an actual signal showing Approach all the time, I think South Amboy.

It's the standard of quality. Not bad, but some mistakes everywhere. There is a won't fix policy. They did a few, and messed up other things in the process.
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Date Posted: Mar 12, 2021 @ 9:06am
Posts: 12