Just Trains Newcastle to York - waste of money?

[riggers]

I bought this a few months ago, intending to make a scenario from Kings Cross to Edinburgh. I already had the ECML London to Peterborough (a difficult route to model, excellently done,) Creative Rail's Peterborough to York (needed quite a bit of detailing and adding missing bridges, but feasible and not far from completed now,) so I splashed out twenty quid on this. What a laugh. Frankly - it's abysmal. The track varies from real world coordinates by up to 200 meters in places, (how can you manage that, with GE overlay??) not one neutral section in the entire line. Even starting out at York, the track layout is years out of date: the site of the former carriage sidings and works to the West of the station has been occupied by a housing development for over twenty years... the sidings are still there! Yet the York wheel is roughly in the place where it was 2011 - 2013. Going North, things don't get better - the same sloppy, rushed creation. Is there a chance that DTG will bring out a REALISTIC portrayal of this - let's face it - hardly 'challenging' route?

[Phase3]

I'm getting confused the JT version newcastle to york - modern was set in 2009 not sure when the DTG version of ECML was set, possibly earlier. Which version or is it both you have an issue with? Both were introduced quite early in TS development and may not be as good as some of today's routes.

[sonta2u01]

the ECML York to Newcastle that i have was to reflect the line of the fifties

[LeapingRodent]

Perhaps one of these will be more to your liking:

https://www.dpsimulation.org.uk/ecmlne.html


This one updates the ECML North East (DTG version) to a more modern standard, circa. 2013 I believe, but maybe this isn't as "current" as you would like.

Another option:

https://www.dpsimulation.org.uk/northeastengland.html

This is a present day setting, however atm it goes only between York & Darlington on the Main Line and includes the WVR as well, but I think I read somewhere that they may add the section between Darlington & Newcastle at a later stage.

just keep in mind, that being freeware, they do have other requirements.

[鐵道榮]

if you have more money , you can buy it . otherwise i think you can collect full ECML+ partial SECML

[JohnnyR]

Originally posted by sonta2u01:

the ECML York to Newcastle that i have was to reflect the line of the fifties

Apologies for drifting, but where did you obtain that, please? I wasn't aware of a 1950s era version and would certainly be interested in it.

[Darloman]

Originally posted by E Vilfart:

Originally posted by sonta2u01:

the ECML York to Newcastle that i have was to reflect the line of the fifties

Apologies for drifting, but where did you obtain that, please? I wasn't aware of a 1950s era version and would certainly be interested in it.

I'd also be interested in a good 1950s era version of York-Newcastle.

I'm aware of this 1962-based reworking of the original 1970s-based route in the Workshop. It isn't particularly accurate though; more of an impression.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=768085453

[0235]

The route is nearly 10 years old (released in 2010) and google maps support for train sim was added in the 2015 version. They built this route entirely from looking at maps and trying to translate this into the game. Yes plugins existed where you can export pinned locations from google earth into train simulator, but these would still only give a basic layout of where certain features were.

also, from route building experience, it is sometimes easier to deviate from what is really there, for the ease of building a route.

If you have 4 parallel tracks for 10 miles, in real life these tracks will drift about a little bit, the gaps between them may change and wander, but to try and build this in train simulator is very difficult.

TLDR: This route was released 4-5 years before GE overlay was added to train sim.

[riggers]

Phase3, Leaping Rodent and others - thanks for the replies and - I'm not sure when it was actually released, but if it's set in 2009, it's way out. Of course I realise that we live in a constantly changing world - it would be difficult to pinpoint everything exactly as it would have been in one particular year - but those carriage sidings give the game away immediately - and that's not due to models/ other content being unavailable - it's either sloppy research (all you have to do is check out Google and wind back the time to the early 2000's and look what replaced them even then,) or they're perfectly aware of the inaccuracy and thought no one would notice. My guess is they've edited the 'old' route, by adding electrification - albeit in many places with the wrong overhead gear - not to mention the lack of neutral sections. My main object in posting was to warn others considering buying it not to waste their money, that's all.

I hadn't seen the DP Simulation version, but from what I can see, it seems better - and it's essentially freeware. I have nothing but admiration for those who develop content and put it out as such, simply because they love the hobby and want to share their creations. But I don't object to paying either - I consider the £25 or so I paid for the WCML Shap, WCML North and the London to Peterborough ECML well worth it, along with every add on from Armstrong Powerhouse.

As for GE overlay - I've used Google Earth for 15 years, when referencing real life routes. I could never get GE to work until recently, so used RW Decal - much better, but Gogle Earth 6.1 has been withdrawn now, so won't work. Before RW Decal, and after, I simply noted the coordinates along the route and placed markers. It takes time, yes, but at least it means you don't get track 200 metres out of real life alignment.

If I get time, I'll post a video on Youtube, showing all the glaring mistakes and omissions. In the meantime, for anyone who's considering buying it - think twice!

[sonta2u01]

Originally posted by E Vilfart:

Originally posted by sonta2u01:

the ECML York to Newcastle that i have was to reflect the line of the fifties

Apologies for drifting, but where did you obtain that, please? I wasn't aware of a 1950s era version and would certainly be interested in it.

it was on the with the main game 2016 the earliest engines were deltic's class 55 and an odd 47
i think it was the track layout that was fifties

[Speedy]

Perhaps do your research before slamming the work of others. This route was one of the first additions to the sim. Google earth overlay was not a thing back when this route was made so it was all done with reference to maps etc etc. Perhaps try and create a more accurate version yourself without using google overlay then let us judge your work

[Adam Beckett]

I just bought it myself, the other day. Even on discount, it is too expansive, imho.

But, again, I think e v e r y t h i n g is way to expensive for this old simulator.

Especially, from outdated websites (HTML 1.0?), asking for 15/20/30 quid for 10 year old content for the ONE person per year that might click on the (http!) "Visa" checkout and having to wait a week or a year before someone sends you an email with a Google Drive link or zip password.

Hilarious.

Just Trains is rather on my 'good' side. They still seem to care. Look at their latest routes!

[Darloman]

Originally posted by sonta2u01:

Originally posted by E Vilfart:

Apologies for drifting, but where did you obtain that, please? I wasn't aware of a 1950s era version and would certainly be interested in it.

it was on the with the main game 2016 the earliest engines were deltic's class 55 and an odd 47
i think it was the track layout that was fifties

That sounds like the original 1970s-based route which was one of the very first routes released back when Train Simulator was called Railworks. As an early route that's still available, it is now very cheap to buy. The Class 55 Deltic released with it was part of what became the European Assets Pack, which was included as part of the early UK routes.

P.S. I believe JT had a hand in it, and that they used it as the base for their "modern" version. I agree that JT have come a long way since then as developers of good routes and locos.

[DPSimulation]

Originally posted by Darloman:

That sounds like the original 1970s-based route which was one of the very first routes released back when Train Simulator was called Railworks.

It goes even further back than that, it's one of the original routes released with Rail Simulator in 2007, obviously the route development even predates that.

Fun fact: The Newcastle to York route was actually voted for by the community in 2005 for inclusion with the release of Rail Simulator. The choices were Liverpool to Crewe, Carlisle to Newcastle and Newcastle to York. The latter was chosen, not a lot of people know that.

[DPSimulation]

Originally posted by LeapingRodent:

Another option:

https://www.dpsimulation.org.uk/northeastengland.html

This is a present day setting, however atm it goes only between York & Darlington on the Main Line and includes the WVR as well, but I think I read somewhere that they may add the section between Darlington & Newcastle at a later stage.

Newcastle is certainly part of the future plan, both via the ECML and Sunderland giving loads of scenario opportunities.

[DPSimulation]

Originally posted by riggers:

My guess is they've edited the 'old' route, by adding electrification - albeit in many places with the wrong overhead gear - not to mention the lack of neutral sections. My main object in posting was to warn others considering buying it not to waste their money, that's all.

You'd be quite right as I created it with JT over a decade ago. It was deemed perfectly adequate at the time, there wasn't such a thing as custom catenary other than what was provided with Rail Simulator and although there are custom models included, the practice itself was in it's infancy. Luckily things have moved on, this brings me to.......

Originally posted by riggers:

I hadn't seen the DP Simulation version, but from what I can see, it seems better - and it's essentially freeware. I have nothing but admiration for those who develop content and put it out as such, simply because they love the hobby and want to share their creations.

Thankyou, comments such as these make the years of hard work worth it.