Scenario editor frustrations.... Can you virtually throw it out your window?!?

[Treinrobert]

How much patience do people have who make good and fun scenarios? I think there would be many more fun scenarios if the editor were not so badly put together.

Especially crashes (out of memory, I have enough memory) and errors in the timetable that you don't get resolved. Without AI it is not a problem but as soon as you start adding AI the irritations start. Especially when you want to make interesting movements. Sometimes you have everything right, save the scenario and the next day you open the editor, after which there is an error in the timetable. Unable to resolve again

ok, the ''out of memory'' crash can be ''solved'' (or work around it) by saving the scenario every time you did something. (it doesn't matter if I start in 32 or 64 bit, never had that problem before the update to TS2020) But those errors with AI in the timetable are really the worst..... I wish you could turn off the automatic calculation in the timetable or something like that. It will probably be too complex for Dovetail Games to solve it or build something better. :(

Sorry, I just wanted to get rid of my frustrations.

[AllyourKitty]

I mostly make my own scenarios these days but I agree it is frustrating when the editor crashes an you lose what you've done.

I'm not sure if everybody does this but I make a scenario template for each route where I put some wagons and loco's in the various sidings and sheds to make the route look lived in and then copy the template and start making my scenario.

This cuts down on time and means that there isn't too much lost if TS decides to crash to desktop.

I've had a lot of crashes and scenarios failing to load with Jetgriffs Manchester to Sheffield via Chinley route which has been frustrating, a shame as I have been enjoying the route a great deal.

[Rudolf Jan]

Making a good scenario takes at least a full day of work, mainly for testing. I do not always succeed in making the scenario I want to make. Yes, crashes can be frutrating. That's life ...

[JohnnyR]

I've just posted some ways to safeguard against crashes during editing in another thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/24010/discussions/3/2659871632529052306/

To be honest, I very rarely experinece crashes following that method but have all the safeguards in place just in case.

[Treinrobert]

Thanks for the reactions!
Well, it crashes out of memory even with little changes in the scenario after a few minutes of editing. Unless I save the scenario every time I make a change in the scenario. But I think I found something. Found a community of another game with similiair problems.

Tried these steps:
Part 1: Disable Paging file

1. In the Windows Search, type Advanced and open ”View advanced system settings”
2. Select the Advanced tab from the dialog box.
3. Under the Performance section, open Settings
4. Select Advanced
5. Open Virtual Memory
6. Uncheck the ”Automatically manage paging file size for all drives” box
7. Click on the ”No paging file” and then on the Set button
8. Confirm changes and restart your PC
So, after this and you restarted your PC there will be no use of virtual memory.

Part 2: Allocate Virtual Memory

1. Go back to the virtual memory window (step 1 to 5 @ part 1)
2. Uncheck the ”Automatically manage paging file size for all drives” box
3. Click on the Custom size and insert your current available physical RAM in MB values
4. Confirm changes and restart your PC

I did all this and had my fingers crossed. Opened the scenario editor and start to make a scenario. Well, it worked for me. Had no ''out of memory'' crash anymore and was able to edit for +/- 30 min. Then another error, my wife saying diner is ready :P

[Phase3]

TreinRobert
That is interesting.
That was one of the solutions Microsoft published when running into OOM's with FSX. It was felt that the Paging File (Virtual Memory) had somehow got corrupted and by by reassigning it as you have done would fix the problem.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/892610/you-receive-the-your-computer-has-run-out-of-available-memory-error-me
How much Physical RAM do you have installed? You also need to read Mark Russinovich's comments on paging files (He is a microsoft sysinternals guru) https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/markrussinovich/2008/11/17/pushing-the-limits-of-windows-virtual-memory/ Remember you only need large paging files if you report crash/memory/kernel dumps to Microsoft on a regular basis. The peak commit charge in task manager will let you know the size of the PF needed.

[Treinrobert]

Ah the OOM's in FSX..... Been there, Done That! :P But that was a thing with 32bit as I remember. Only occurred here when adding a lot of heavy addons.

Back to TS.
I've got 16GB of physical RAM. When having the memory crash I monitored only a few GB of RAM where used. Not even close all of it. The first thing I thought was that is had to do with my not so good video card (overclocked GTX660). But never had that problem with older versions of TS like TS2019, even with the same routes as I'm editing now. And it only occurs in the editor, never when playing TS. And it happens just after placing one consist except when I saved the scenario right after placing the consist. And so on, after every change, saving the scenario did it at first.
But now I tried this and the errors are gone (for now....) and don't have to save the scenario every time I change something. Maybe TS2020 can't go around with old paging files? I'm not enough into that. When I Google the problem you will see a lot of other people have the same problem, only with TS2020.

[riggers]

I have experienced the same problem - out of memory error, since I upgraded my laptop to Windows 10. I had been running TS2020 for a few weeks with no problems - but as soon as I changed to Windows 10, I got the desktop, white box error message. I get it primarily, after editing scenarios and/or routes, then attempting to drive the scenario. I now work on the alterations, then restart the laptop and run TS2020 as the first program. It works, but it's a real pain. It could be TS 2020 - it could also be windows 10. It would be interesting to hear if anyone is running TS 2020 with an old operating system such as 8/ 7/Vista/XP without problems?

[Adam Beckett]

Strange.

I am loading massively big routes and complex scenarios in the editor. Never had an 'out-of-memory' issue.
[Running TS20xx on Win8.1 and latest Win10 = both 64bit OS. 16GB SysRAM]

But, I DO have the exact same issues as OP when it comes to Timetables and the in-game route-calculator ... uhm ... software.

Depending on the routes, I guess, you have to manually 'help' the thing, by adding explicit waypoints, so the route-logic will kick in again and determine the 'best' - or even 'only' route connection for your scenario AI.

Start simple. Clone scenario. Work on the clone by adding another layer. Clone that scenario ...

... et cetera. Ad infinitum.



If making scenarios get's you 'off', try making routes? I lost 10 dog years, trying to click myself through this Teletubbies editor with no UX workflow or dynamic or automated scripting tools. Everything you do, you do 'mano-a-mano', like it's 1999.

Even for an old guy like me, this is way to much. ;)

[Treinrobert]

Originally posted by riggers:

I have experienced the same problem - out of memory error, since I upgraded my laptop to Windows 10. I had been running TS2020 for a few weeks with no problems - but as soon as I changed to Windows 10, I got the desktop, white box error message. I get it primarily, after editing scenarios and/or routes, then attempting to drive the scenario. I now work on the alterations, then restart the laptop and run TS2020 as the first program. It works, but it's a real pain. It could be TS 2020 - it could also be windows 10. It would be interesting to hear if anyone is running TS 2020 with an old operating system such as 8/ 7/Vista/XP without problems?

After my steps (read my previous answer in this post) I had no errors anymore. Have you tried those steps above?

[Treinrobert]

Originally posted by Adam Beckett:

Strange.

I am loading massively big routes and complex scenarios in the editor. Never had an 'out-of-memory' issue.
[Running TS20xx on Win8.1 and latest Win10 = both 64bit OS. 16GB SysRAM]

But, I DO have the exact same issues as OP when it comes to Timetables and the in-game route-calculator ... uhm ... software.

Depending on the routes, I guess, you have to manually 'help' the thing, by adding explicit waypoints, so the route-logic will kick in again and determine the 'best' - or even 'only' route connection for your scenario AI.

Start simple. Clone scenario. Work on the clone by adding another layer. Clone that scenario ...

... et cetera. Ad infinitum.



If making scenarios get's you 'off', try making routes? I lost 10 dog years, trying to click myself through this Teletubbies editor with no UX workflow or dynamic or automated scripting tools. Everything you do, you do 'mano-a-mano', like it's 1999.

Even for an old guy like me, this is way to much. ;)

Well, after the steps I did with the virtual memory paging file I had no errors anymore. So that frustration is gone for now. If this was the solution you probably don't have a corrupt paging file. So keep it that way....

Today I have been in the editor for some hours without any problems at all. And beginning to understand more about the complex software engine. Next step, drive the scenario and see if its any good.....

[Phase3]

Let's get this straight an OOM in TS20XX has NOTHING to do with the amount of RAM installed, or used. It is due to an illegal call to an address in the memory or an address that is not available, already occupied, or restricted, or outside the working set. It can also be caused by a DEP violation and a "corrupt" paging file.
DTG would be better giving us back the "Access Violation" Error, because that is what it is!
If I used the editor regularly:
I would move TS20XX install from C:\Program Files (x86) to another location or drive.
I would turn off UAC whilst editing
Disable DEP whilst editing
Rebuild my Paging File on a regular basis

[JohnnyR]

Originally posted by Phase3:

Let's get this straight an OOM in TS20XX has NOTHING to do with the amount of RAM installed, or used.

I hear where you are coming from but I think it would be more accurate to say "it might have nothing to do with" as it is certain that in some cases that it is telling you the truth. The problem is that it is a bit of a default message and can't be relied upon.

[Phase3]

EVilfart
Sorry, but we have to agree to disagree, but I do assure you that this is a software issue and not a hardware issue.

[JohnnyR]

Fair enough . . . but I feel as certain as you do.

Life would be so boring if we were all the same!