Union Pacific 119

[terry.merrison]

Just installed this and on expert controls , the green dial for the brakes is blank , and I can't get the brakes to work .
I've unistalled and reinstalled but it's still the same . Any ideas please ?

[Smokebox]

Thank you for purchasing the UP 119!

The most important recommendation I always give to anyone who has bought a Pro Series loco is that, after installing it, you should always read the accompanying manual before trying to run the loco. This one's manual is called UP119 Steam Locomotive Add-on Manual.pdf and is located in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\RailWorks\Manuals\EN.

The section titled "Brakes", starting on page 19, explains that the 119 doesn't have any brakes (air brakes weren't fitted to locomotives in 1869). Instead, you use the reverser, in reverse, and throttle to slow the train, along with the handbrakes on the cars in the consist. You can use the whistle to signal to the brakemen on the cars to apply or release handbrakes - two long blasts (click on the whistle lever hot spot, or press spacebar for about a second or more) to release them, one short toot (a different hot spot on the whistle lever or a quick tap of the spacebar) to apply the handbrakes.

[Smokebox]

There's one more thing I should warn you about regarding using the F4 HUD to fill the boiler with water. The two handles labelled "Feedwater Valve" - they protrude from a gap in the cab floor in front of the fireman and engineer - have to be up in order for feed water to reach the boiler. Clicking on the handles will toggle the handles up or down (or you can use the keyboard shortcuts Shift L and Shift K). Once they're up, just leave them there and then you can use the F4 HUD's water icon to turn the water on/off as needed. I need to update pages 23-24 of the manual to make this clear.

[vlads]

Originally posted by Smokebox:

You can use the whistle to signal to the brakemen on the cars to apply or release handbrakes - two long blasts (click on the whistle lever hot spot, or press spacebar for about a second or more) to release them, one short toot (a different hot spot on the whistle lever or a quick tap of the spacebar) to apply the handbrakes.

Sorry for the offtopic. I memorized, that in my country even after the ending of the steam era (I don't remember exactly if it strictly applies now), when some locomotives were unable to drive in MU (A-A cab units coupled and facing both in forward direction) or the train radio may fail/is busy, there was a substitutuion called "whistle commands" (in addition even to manual/gesture commands, that are very common even now when pushing the trains). Something like - proceed, slow down, increase throttle, and decrease throttle for 2nd or the helper locomotives in the tail of the train (the two blasts of horn in modern times serve the same role as in steam era in passenger and sometimes freight trains - to release the brakes if they are supposed to be applied). Now it happen, probably, only in classification yards because every train worker has the walkie-talkie and can communicate with the driver.

[Smokebox]

Originally posted by vlads:

Sorry for the offtopic. I memorized, that in my country even after the ending of the steam era (I don't remember exactly if it strictly applies now), when some locomotives were unable to drive in MU (A-A cab units coupled and facing both in forward direction) or the train radio may fail/is busy, there was a substitutuion called "whistle commands" (in addition even to manual/gesture commands, that are very common even now when pushing the trains). Something like - proceed, slow down, increase throttle, and decrease throttle for 2nd or the helper locomotives in the tail of the train (the two blasts of horn in modern times serve the same role as in steam era in passenger and sometimes freight trains - to release the brakes if they are supposed to be applied). Now it happen, probably, only in classification yards because every train worker has the walkie-talkie and can communicate with the driver.

I remember hearing about how Steve Lee in UP 844 would put his arm out of the cab window and signal to the engineer in the helper engine when to use his dynamic brakes (the m.u. controller in the cab of 844 doesn't have any control over the brakes of the diesel helper engine).

[terry.merrison]

thanks a bunch , big help

[robmerlo]

Also watch out if you try to take water at the 14 mile west tower as the brakes will not hold the train on the hill i kept losing control there then ran through to the 19 mile water tower on the rails to Laramie scenario a hard run

[Smokebox]

Originally posted by robmerlo:

Also watch out if you try to take water at the 14 mile west tower as the brakes will not hold the train on the hill i kept losing control there then ran through to the 19 mile water tower on the rails to Laramie scenario a hard run

I've finally found a way to solve that problem (handbrakes not holding the cars on a steep grade) without increasing the strength of the handbrakes (which would be unrealistic). However, it will take some time to get the corresponding patches (to the locomotives and rolling stock) released on Steam.

[hygoose]

Will the UP 119, like the wonderful Jupiter, also run using the HUD?

[Smokebox]

Originally posted by hygoose:

Will the UP 119, like the wonderful Jupiter, also run using the HUD?

Yes, you can use the F4 HUD. It will even run in either Expert or Simple Controls mode. You can also use it with or without the automatic fireman.

One problem with the HUD is that it doesn't have any button for the dampers (funny that - it has one for windscreen wipers, which I've never seen on a steam locomotive, but none for dampers which I think all steam locos have). To get the best steam rate, you have to open the dampers using the mouse or the keyboard.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, if you use the F4 HUD with the automatic fireman disabled, make sure first of all to use the mouse or keyboard shortcuts to put the two feedwater valves in the cab into the "up" position (Shift L and Shift K will toggle the two valves up and down). Once they're up, you can just stick to using the water icon on the HUD to control the water.

[robmerlo]

Another little trick i have learnt is when pulling away on a heavy grade or when the train is sliding backward do not put the loco into full foward gear as the second loco will cease to function but leave the reverser at about 45 0/0 then both locos seem to power

[Smokebox]

Originally posted by robmerlo:

Another little trick i have learnt is when pulling away on a heavy grade or when the train is sliding backward do not put the loco into full foward gear as the second loco will cease to function but leave the reverser at about 45 0/0 then both locos seem to power

The core code that handles AI in double-header hash-ups often does peculiar things :D

[vlads]

I always was curious that junior steam drivers hated steams (it's not about your above, and even not about these little steamers - it's just my observations, watching the reviews on the DLC pages) only because they can't easily push the throttle in 100% and accelerate as they usually do in diesel and electric locomotives. The steamers are different. They are completely different. Just because they have much bigger difference between continious traction effort (and power output) and simultaneous power (that they can give in short moment of time at certain speed while accelerating). Even more - the effective speed for steam switchers, freight and passenger steamers is different because of different diameter of driving wheels, the stroke length and volume of the cylinders. And we are not speaking about the chimney firing area, the superheater area, the steam boiler area and many ather values... I hope that TS is taking in account a very significant part of these values. I enjoy the steam traction because it relies more on your feelings - at least the feeling of loudness of exhaust but more often on feeling of inertia of train and the engines themseves, than on the HUD values.
I was very surprised when I saw in the video describing the UP 119, she hasn't any brakes (neither vacuum nor Westinghouse ones), so the driver always used steam compression brakes (and the manual ones as it was discussed above). As I remember in modern era steamers you can make this trick. In order to use it, the driver had to shut down the chimhey output (or the steam cone itself, switching the exhaust to the outside) for not to let the smoke enter the cylinders. So here is the question: does it apply to the real life Jupiter/119 or they have separate steam output: one for the steam cone, and one to the air directly from the cylinders?

[Smokebox]

Originally posted by vlads:

I always was curious that junior steam drivers hated steams (it's not about your above, and even not about these little steamers - it's just my observations, watching the reviews on the DLC pages) only because they can't easily push the throttle in 100% and accelerate as they usually do in diesel and electric locomotives. The steamers are different. They are completely different. Just because they have much bigger difference between continious traction effort (and power output) and simultaneous power (that they can give in short moment of time at certain speed while accelerating). Even more - the effective speed for steam switchers, freight and passenger steamers is different because of different diameter of driving wheels, the stroke length and volume of the cylinders. And we are not speaking about the chimney firing area, the superheater area, the steam boiler area and many ather values... I hope that TS is taking in account a very significant part of these values. I enjoy the steam traction because it relies more on your feelings - at least the feeling of loudness of exhaust but more often on feeling of inertia of train and the engines themseves, than on the HUD values.
I was very surprised when I saw in the video describing the UP 119, she hasn't any brakes (neither vacuum nor Westinghouse ones), so the driver always used steam compression brakes (and the manual ones as it was discussed above). As I remember in modern era steamers you can make this trick. In order to use it, the driver had to shut down the chimhey output (or the steam cone itself, switching the exhaust to the outside) for not to let the smoke enter the cylinders. So here is the question: does it apply to the real life Jupiter/119 or they have separate steam output: one for the steam cone, and one to the air directly from the cylinders?

The real-life replicas do have straight (independent) air brakes, to meet the FRA requirements, but the originals (built in 1868) didn't. As for the steam output, the only way to divert some of the exhaust steam away from the exhaust ports was (and is) to open the cylinder drain ♥♥♥♥♥. That's actually something I do just before coming to a stop so that after actually stopping using the reverser+throttle, if there's still steam in the chest even after closing the throttle, it won't cause the locomotive to start going in the opposite direction - the remaining live steam will mostly go out through the drain ♥♥♥♥♥ to atmosphere.

You'll also notice that the cylinders didn't have sniffer valves, so it was a problem that when the throttle was closed, it could draw in smoke from the chimney (and of course with a longer cutoff, it would be worse). In the mid-19th century, they were still experimenting and discovering a lot. Anyway, smoke contamination of the cylinders isn't simulated (steam condensing into water in the cylinders is simulated though, in mine and several other Pro series locos).

Regarding the values that are taken into account in the physics of the steam locomotives, there are a lot of them and they all have to be set, tuned and balanced correctly in order to obtain a behaviour and performance that is genuinely realistic (with respect to the real-life loco that is being modelled). The purpose of several of those values is not obvious either, and I've seen differing interpretations for some of them. There are also a number of things that are hard-coded in the core of TS, making it very difficult for developers to work around them to create more accurate models of steam behaviour. Consequently, not all steam locos in TS are equally accurate. I do believe that mine are some of the most accurate (and many steam locomotive engineers have told me that they are).

[robmerlo]

As in real life all steam locomotives had a life of their own even locomotives of the same class and builder could be completely different in their behaviour . I had the great privilage of serving for some 5 years on steam locos before the inevitable diesel take over . Loved them loved to listen to them beause they did talk to the driver and an ecellent driver always listened and felt what the engine was telling him in other words you did drive them by the seat of your pants most of my experience was on the victorian railways J class 2-8-0 consolidated oil burner's which were designed and built to be converted from 5ft 3 gauge to stanard gauge still miss them

[Smokebox]

Originally posted by robmerlo:

As in real life all steam locomotives had a life of their own even locomotives of the same class and builder could be completely different in their behaviour . I had the great privilage of serving for some 5 years on steam locos before the inevitable diesel take over . Loved them loved to listen to them beause they did talk to the driver and an ecellent driver always listened and felt what the engine was telling him in other words you did drive them by the seat of your pants most of my experience was on the victorian railways J class 2-8-0 consolidated oil burner's which were designed and built to be converted from 5ft 3 gauge to stanard gauge still miss them

That's what I love about steam locomotives. I use the HUDs only when running tests. When I drive them for fun, I turn off all the HUDs (except for sometimes taking a quick look at the F3 for speed limits) and listen to the sounds and feel the engine, as much as you can in a simulator. Of course, it can never be the same as the real thing. I take my virtual hat off to you robmerlo.