PZB Signaling

[Tomisnic]

So I've been playing TS2015 for about two weeks (mostly on two German routes) and now I've decided to increase the realism by beginning to use PZB signaling.

I have a couple of somewhat related questions. I was driving a freight train TS classified as Untere so as soon as I activate the PZB system, the 55 lamp lights up. But as soon as I start moving however, the 70 lamp start flashing intermittently. I have no idea what this means but I stick to the line speed (40 km) and everything is fine. Somewhere in the manual I saw an explanation for the 85 and 70 lamps flashing together but no explanation for a single lamp.

After 15 km or so I come upon the first yellow distant signal. I spot it, lower my speed to 105 km, acknowledge the signal as soon as I pass it, the 1000 Hz lamp lights up and I proceed to slow down to 55 km. I then see that the signal ahead is green, wait for the 1000 Hz lamp to go off, press the release button and expect to be allowed to speed up to 125 km again. But the PZB systems begins flashing the 55 lamp (no other lamp is lit)...I have no idea what this means and since the signal just ahead is green, I decide to speed and see what happens. As soon as I go above 55 km, the emergency breaks engage.

[skinnyraf]

I don't know what is the reason for the 70 lamp flashing with the U type train. However the 55 lamp flashing means that release didn't work - maybe keep the button pressed a little longer instead of just briefly touching it?

[fyoLt6HJmeBGy2kmVekR]

I find the system confusing at times too, but it's my favorite of driving experiences in the game, assuming the automation is working correctly.

Here are the two resources I refer to when studying the German systems:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punktf%C3%B6rmige_Zugbeeinflussung
http://www.sh1.org/eisenbahn/rindusi.htm

Hope that helps or at least confirms proper real life info. Not sure if the game is behaving to real world standards though.

[Tomisnic]

Thank you...I'll take a look.

[Tomisnic]

Very good reading @ScottyT Thank you.

I've come upon a situation a couple of times and I don't know how to deal with it because I had the emergency break deploy on me both times. Basically, it involves coming up to a guarding signal under PZB surveillance. The guarding signal is green so I release from 1000 hz surveillance but the guarding signal also has a distant signal attached to it which happens to be on double yellows. I don't know how to handle this situation...are there two magnets there? Both a 2000 hz for the guarding signal and a 1000 hz for the distant signal?

Here is one example: http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/714155086686788016/09B188C4E21788CF57EAC221F337A3A9FE5DE4FA/

[fyoLt6HJmeBGy2kmVekR]

There is only one magnet at the signal.

In this situation, the top signal is a restricted speed Hp2 signal, not a green clear, so do not release PZB. You also should not pass it going faster than 40km/h.

The bottom portion is double yellow. This distant signal is what must be acknowledged. Pressing AND releasing the page down key within 4 seconds of passing. You should hear a warning buzzer when you go over this magnet reminding you it is not at clear. Expect the next signal to be at red, ready to stop. Make sure you do not exceed the 40km/h limit on your way to the next signal.

That should work it out for you, if I have learned correctly myself. What scenario is this?

[Felix.AVMP]

This ^

Please, just for the sake of all of us, do not use the term "double yellow" in conjunction with german signals.

There is no double yellow in german signalling (well, technically speaking, there is, in ex-DR Hl system, but it has different meaning - ironically, the very signal in this case would be the "double yellow" -with probable additional white- in Hl system, but we are not talking about Hl system, we are talking about Hp/Vr system here).
Two yellows on Hp/Vr signal equal single yellow on Ks or Hl signal - it always means "expect stop" (it was done so for historical reasons in order to avoid possible confusion of distant and main signal in situation in foggy conditions).

Btw. the white light in this case means, that the signal should be expected sooner than usually - which in turn means, that you really should start braking now...

And also, ignore anything that was written about grerman signalling in TS manuals - and read sh1.org instead.

[skinnyraf]

The bigger issue that I have with PZB on recent routes is that I cannot properly discern Ks1 expect proceed at restricted speed (flashing green). There's just so much foliage (e.g. around Munich in M-GP route), flicker, flare and whatelse, that I notice it is flashing some 3-4 seconds before passing it. And then I have to: move the throttle to 0, aknowledge the signal, start braking hard, but without triggering emergency brakes, in order to get below 85 km/h from 160 km/h. Doable, but so stressful.

Edit: @Felix.AVMP, how applicable is the page you linked to the way that German signalling is implemented in TS? Cause it can describe the real signalling perfectly, but if TS implementation is wrong, then it won't help us drive...

[Felix.AVMP]

In my experience, it is more valid for german routes, than TS manuals themselves.

Of course, it depends who produced the route in question - routes made by german creators are usually very accurate, while routes made by DTG are, well, hit and miss... but still, it is more accurate even for the in house developed german routes - manuals are simply wrong as they are mixing together several aspects.

There is another problem regarding PZB - there are unfortunatelly several revisions of PZB implementations floating around and unfortunatelly, certain combinations of route/loco/signal produce errors...
(which means, no matter what you do, emergency braking is triggered - now while this is quite realistic, because this happens from time to time even IRL, it is distracting at best and game breaking at worst).

(there is one big advantage for anyone, who learns all three german signalling systems - because, the entire central and eastern Europe is using similar signalling systems, the moment you learn these german systems, you are able to read signals from many other european countries).

[Tomisnic]

Great info...thank you all. I'll try again today and see how it goes.

Which routes are made by German creators?

[fyoLt6HJmeBGy2kmVekR]

Originally posted by Felix.AVMP:

This ^

Please, just for the sake of all of us, do not use the term "double yellow" in conjunction with german signals.

Ok...

Originally posted by Felix.AVMP:

There is no double yellow in german signalling (well, technically speaking, there is, in ex-DR Hl system, but it has different meaning - ironically, the very signal in this case would be the "double yellow" -with probable additional white- in Hl system, but we are not talking about Hl system, we are talking about Hp/Vr system here).
Two yellows on Hp/Vr signal equal single yellow on Ks or Hl signal - it always means "expect stop" (it was done so for historical reasons in order to avoid possible confusion of distant and main signal in situation in foggy conditions).

Btw. the white light in this case means, that the signal should be expected sooner than usually - which in turn means, that you really should start braking now...

Thanks for the explanation. I am no master at this, just was trying to help a guy out.

Originally posted by Felix.AVMP:

And also, ignore anything that was written about grerman signalling in TS manuals - and read sh1.org instead.

Glad sh1.org is validated to be a good resource.

--

Lau, I hope I have helped you. That was my intent, but I guess somewhat incorrect terminology. So for the sake of all of us, from here on out I will refrain. There are much more knowledgable people here that can chime in. Happy TS'ing.

[Tomisnic]

^^

You've been very helpful...thank you for contributing...I believe I was the one who first used the 'double yellow' description. I'm a total novice when it comes to trains and train simulator so I don't know much of anything about signals and their proper names.

[Tomisnic]

Having problems again and getting frustrated. I'm doing the Day Shift Scenario from the Koln to Koblenz route. In this scenario right before reaching the penultimate station, Koblenz Stadtmitte, you come across a distant yellow signal indicating that next signal, which happens to be at the end of station's platform, is red. I pass through the signal, acknowledge it, the 1000 hz lights up, reduce speed to 85 km...see that the main signal is red...reduce speed further to 65km, the 500hz lamp lights up, reduce speed to 45km and eventually stop both for the signal and because there is a scheduled stop at the station. The reason the signal is red is because there is another train occupying our platform at the very near Koblenz Hbf station…our last stop. I wait for that train to leave and my signal changes to this: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=393418560

Since I have stopped, I'm now under restricted monitoring as well so the 85 and 70 lamps are flashing intermittently and the 500 hz lamp is lit as well. I'm under restricted monitoring so I have to stay bellow 25km until the 500hz lamp goes out. I start moving (and have even engaged the AFB at 20km to make sure I don't speed). I acknowledge the distant yellow (even though I do not get the usual audio warning) and I begin rolling through the signal. About 200m or so after....maybe a little more...all three lamps go out, the 85 lamp lights for a second then the 1000hz lamp and the emergency brakes engage in quick succession and I have no idea what just happened.

[fyoLt6HJmeBGy2kmVekR]

I will give this a try tomorrow and see if I get the same result.

[fyoLt6HJmeBGy2kmVekR]

Unfortunately, I don't have the answer to this one. I have a green check next to this scenario and remember completing it last week. I know the scenario works.

Were you starting it new, or continuing from a saved session?

[darkage]

when you are restricted to 25km/h by the 500 hertz magnet you have to hold the Delete key (Override in the train) as you pass the signal, this will prevent the train from reacting to the 2000 hertz magnet and therefore, applying the emergency brakes