Total Carnage difficulty

[Cadaver747]

I noticed there is an Achievement for the last difficulty which I never touched in my life for more than a few seconds. So I tried again this time and decided it's not fun after I was killed 10 times in a row on the very first map, but then I managed to find a save station and a recharge station, and kill everything around me. I now have half of a clip remaining in my pistol.

I wonder if it is even possible to play the game on that difficulty the old style (kill all enemies) except for the finite air sections maybe.

Last time I played Marathon on higher difficulty (higher than Normal) I noticed that I almost always run short on ammo, sometimes there are secret cashes which help, so should I just speedrun the whole thing or is it possible to enjoy the elimination process of attacking forces?

Also, do recharge stations eventually stop working?

[KraylonV]

Total Carnage completely removes the ammo capacity limit which allows some degree of ammo stockpiling for the more powerful stuff. That said the enemies are significantly spongier so judicious use of your fist and its running punch is key to early game ammo conservation. Also, you can punch faster than S'pht can shoot so you can quite safely stand in front of them and punch them to death.

The recharge stations won't ever stop working from use, but I think some do get disabled due to map progress although that may only be in some of the later games.

[Cadaver747]

Thank you for the good points. I was afraid about the need to rely on my fists. It's no problem dealing with a single S'pht, but Pfhor infantry (it seems that every Green is changed to Purple on Total Carnage) overwhelms me in seconds.

Thank goodness I can always comeback to recharge station. I thought that I remember how some of them were disabled after a time but wasn't sure, so it seems it might be a thing in some cases.

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

Originally posted by Cadaver747:

I noticed there is an Achievement for the last difficulty which I never touched in my life for more than a few seconds. So I tried again this time and decided it's not fun after I was killed 10 times in a row on the very first map, but then I managed to find a save station and a recharge station, and kill everything around me. I now have half of a clip remaining in my pistol.

I wonder if it is even possible to play the game on that difficulty the old style (kill all enemies) except for the finite air sections maybe.

Last time I played Marathon on higher difficulty (higher than Normal) I noticed that I almost always run short on ammo, sometimes there are secret cashes which help, so should I just speedrun the whole thing or is it possible to enjoy the elimination process of attacking forces?

Also, do recharge stations eventually stop working?

Total carnage prompts me to try to survive and conserve ammo. The only level I know in the beginning is The Rose and a couple of others…where you have to kill all the aliens. The trick is to get cornered into a narrow space so they can’t flank you. Then keep punching away (unless it’s a Hulk or Juggernaut…, you’re kind of screwed in that situation).

That said, continuing to punch the alien me prevents them from being able to attack you. You simply have to balance survival vs ammo

[Dark Redshift]

Originally posted by Cadaver747:

I noticed there is an Achievement for the last difficulty which I never touched in my life for more than a few seconds. So I tried again this time and decided it's not fun after I was killed 10 times in a row on the very first map, but then I managed to find a save station and a recharge station, and kill everything around me. I now have half of a clip remaining in my pistol.

I wonder if it is even possible to play the game on that difficulty the old style (kill all enemies) except for the finite air sections maybe.

Last time I played Marathon on higher difficulty (higher than Normal) I noticed that I almost always run short on ammo, sometimes there are secret cashes which help, so should I just speedrun the whole thing or is it possible to enjoy the elimination process of attacking forces?

Also, do recharge stations eventually stop working?

No, health & shield stations never run out, unlike Half Life. Oxygen stations neither. However, it's possible for them to break in the sequels if you blow up the wrong wires. (used to good effect in Marathon 2's E5M4)

I've beaten the game a lot on Total Carnage difficulty since 2012 & 2013 in the legacy Aleph One versions. It is unforgiving though so you really need to know what you're doing.

For example. momentum affects punch damage. Some enemies are also weak to certain weapons ala Rockman, such as the plasma pistol working on cyborgs & armoured Pfhor such as S'pht and hunters respectively (the latter don't explode unless you use explosives in this game but by Marathon 2, the plasma pistol has its Halo 3 EMP so it does make them explode then). The flamethrower is great against fighters and enforcers.

The ammo carrying limit on Total Carnage is also removed so you get similar amounts to Doom, though they're still clips. You need it.

Besides grenade jumping, in the Pfhor ship levels you can fly with the flamethrower the same way as in Duke Nukem 2.

Secrets also have hidden lore in them in secret terminals as well as the usual Tomb Raider 3, Duke 3D, Doom stuff. E1M3's one is basically the Mt Erebus rocket jump for Marathon.

When you run over a gun you already have in Total Carnage, it refills your clip like a weird attempt at a reload mechanic. I don't think it works in lower difficulties and it definitely doesn't on any of them in the sequels.

Oxygen drains faster on Total Carnage when running and even faster when firing.

The sequels are bloody annoying at times on Total Carnage though, Infinity's vacuum levels & Hang Brain especially. Then Eternal gets pretty bad on TC by Episode 4 and remains that way until the end of the game.

In short it's basically like Halo on Legendary, Doom's remaster on Ultra Violence Plus and Blood on Well Done.

[Dark Redshift]

Originally posted by KraylonV:

Total Carnage completely removes the ammo capacity limit which allows some degree of ammo stockpiling for the more powerful stuff. That said the enemies are significantly spongier so judicious use of your fist and its running punch is key to early game ammo conservation. Also, you can punch faster than S'pht can shoot so you can quite safely stand in front of them and punch them to death.

The recharge stations won't ever stop working from use, but I think some do get disabled due to map progress although that may only be in some of the later games.

There's two that get locked off in this game but unlike the sequels where they turn off if the terminal's sector light is low enough, it's just a lift covering them over and despite that you can still use the terminal through the solid wall anyway thanks to collison glitches which saves your bacon more than a little bit on Shake Before Using where it first appears.

[Watcher Rat]

If you do decide to do Total Carnage, the earlier levels aren't nearly as painful as what's coming ;) Eupfhoria, in particular, was always my least favorite (small level, but lots of Hunter ambushes, and no save point until way after it matters, though it does have a 3x health spot if you can survive long enough to get there). You'll never encounter an enemy that is not their hardest version, so be prepared for nastiness the whole time. Here's some basic tips though:

-Hunters shoot 6 times per volley with a very short rest; bullet hits will stun them. If you time it right, you can slip between their shots even in tight halls.
-S'pht/Compilers can be punched to death, but if they do fire, you can sidestep their homing bolts a moment before they hit and dodge them.
-The flies are, as always, just the worst. Fight at long range when you can with the pistol.
-Try to get enemies to group up for explosive shots to save ammo.
-If you open a door into a room full of enemies and hear them immediately start shooting, close the door. More often than not, a few enemies will hit one another and immediately turn and start infighting. Letting them thing one another out is consistently useful.
-Fear troopers. Even more than hunters, they can erase you brutally fast.

[Cadaver747]

Thank you all for the tips. It's astonishing how the Major Damage difficulty differs from Total Carnage, it's like going from Easy to Impossible in comparison. I beat Halo 0-4 on Legendary and even on Legendary with added difficulty mutators. The most difficult parts in Halo 2 feel nothing like Marathon on Total Carnage. So far, it's the hardest FPS game for me, the only thing that comes close to it could be Doom on Nightmare with fast and respawning demons.

[Watcher Rat]

Yeah, the 90s were a different time ;)

Also, one last tip: There's a way to beat the final level in about 3 seconds ;)

[Terin]

Originally posted by Cadaver747:

The most difficult parts in Halo 2 feel nothing like Marathon on Total Carnage.

The beginning of Gravemind gives Total Carnage a run for its money.... those plasma bolts come so, so fast. You've got the benefit in Marathon of any damage interrupting any enemy, and fast enough damage can stunlock them preventing them from returning fire. Now you won't often be able to 1v1 that conveniently, but it's an extremely useful tool that Halo, especially on higher difficulties, doesn't have.

[Cadaver747]

Originally posted by Terin:

The beginning of Gravemind gives Total Carnage a run for its money.... those plasma bolts come so, so fast. You've got the benefit in Marathon of any damage interrupting any enemy, and fast enough damage can stunlock them preventing them from returning fire. Now you won't often be able to 1v1 that conveniently, but it's an extremely useful tool that Halo, especially on higher difficulties, doesn't have.

This conversation makes little sense, first of all I posted my own opinion based on my own experience, you can't undo that with your reasoning. I struggle at Marathon and in my opinion having occasional Checkpoint saves in Halo is MUCH better than restarting the whole level from the beginning in Marathon only because there was no Save Station in sight.

And yes, I agree that Gravemind is one of the toughest levels in Halo 2, especially on Legendary but at least it's fair in a way that you can run around, dodge or hide from enemy fires. Remember the large open areas with lots of Sniper Jackals placed around with Beam Riffles at a ready, that is unfair, they never miss and it's always a one shot kill on Legendary, I can't stand those guys. Brutes in Gravemind starting location at least can go berserk and help out a bit.

I regret mentioning Halo, it's gone completely off-topic.

[Dark Redshift]

Originally posted by Cadaver747:

Thank you all for the tips. It's astonishing how the Major Damage difficulty differs from Total Carnage, it's like going from Easy to Impossible in comparison. I beat Halo 0-4 on Legendary and even on Legendary with added difficulty mutators. The most difficult parts in Halo 2 feel nothing like Marathon on Total Carnage. So far, it's the hardest FPS game for me, the only thing that comes close to it could be Doom on Nightmare with fast and respawning demons.

Wait till you try Eternal on Total Carnage: it's like Blood on Extra Crispy or Ion Maiden on Maximum Fury, especially the original 1.03 version.

[Terin]

Originally posted by Cadaver747:

Originally posted by Terin:

The beginning of Gravemind gives Total Carnage a run for its money.... those plasma bolts come so, so fast. You've got the benefit in Marathon of any damage interrupting any enemy, and fast enough damage can stunlock them preventing them from returning fire. Now you won't often be able to 1v1 that conveniently, but it's an extremely useful tool that Halo, especially on higher difficulties, doesn't have.

This conversation makes little sense, first of all I posted my own opinion based on my own experience, you can't undo that with your reasoning. I struggle at Marathon and in my opinion having occasional Checkpoint saves in Halo is MUCH better than restarting the whole level from the beginning in Marathon only because there was no Save Station in sight.

And yes, I agree that Gravemind is one of the toughest levels in Halo 2, especially on Legendary but at least it's fair in a way that you can run around, dodge or hide from enemy fires. Remember the large open areas with lots of Sniper Jackals placed around with Beam Riffles at a ready, that is unfair, they never miss and it's always a one shot kill on Legendary, I can't stand those guys. Brutes in Gravemind starting location at least can go berserk and help out a bit.

I regret mentioning Halo, it's gone completely off-topic.

I apologize if it came off as me trying to undo anything, I'm also just making conversation, talking about experiences I've had with the two and comparing and contrasting them. I did a Marathon 1 TC run around the time with was announced, hoping I could transfer those saves over to get the achievement when it launched, and had the wind knocked out of me finding out I'd have to do it all again if I wanted that credit. It's no joke!

Especially with like, yeah, Jackal snipers can be massive jerks with their one-hit cheap shots, but at the very most you're set back like 20-60 seconds. Compared to trying to find a save terminal on a level, especially on a first try through, that's terrifying hoping you don't get murdered on the way through by a load of grenades or an exploding BoB or whatnot. Just that each game has its own pressures and pain points.

[Pheener]

I'm also replaying the game on Total Carnage, and while it's absolutely a nightmare, I'm loving the challenge and all the extra ammo.

One thing I'm super curious about though, given the lack of solid "Total Carnage" information... in a lot of these maps, I'm seeing wandering enemies that definitely weren't there when I cleared the area. Does it have some kind of respawning mechanic like Nightmare for Doom, or does it just spawn in enemies from time to time?

Originally posted by KraylonV:

The recharge stations won't ever stop working from use, but I think some do get disabled due to map progress although that may only be in some of the later games.

Just because I just ran into it, the hidden 3x charger in Neither High, Nor Low actually does "shut" after a predetermined amount of time, but you can also hump the wall and get it to work anyway!

[Dark Redshift]

Originally posted by Pheener:

I'm also replaying the game on Total Carnage, and while it's absolutely a nightmare, I'm loving the challenge and all the extra ammo.

One thing I'm super curious about though, given the lack of solid "Total Carnage" information... in a lot of these maps, I'm seeing wandering enemies that definitely weren't there when I cleared the area. Does it have some kind of respawning mechanic like Nightmare for Doom, or does it just spawn in enemies from time to time?

Originally posted by KraylonV:

The recharge stations won't ever stop working from use, but I think some do get disabled due to map progress although that may only be in some of the later games.

Just because I just ran into it, the hidden 3x charger in Neither High, Nor Low actually does "shut" after a predetermined amount of time, but you can also hump the wall and get it to work anyway!

I think all difficulties have something like that for very specific maps as the sequels do it too, most infamously at the start of Marathon 2's E5M1 whose title later was snowcloned for the last chapter of the Halo level Assault on the Control room.

Specifically in that level, you are constantly swamped by troopers, simulacrums & hunters until you can reach the map's titular rocket launcher, at which point maybe 1 or 2 troopers could show up as you open the final exit bulkhead.

[TehSpoopyKitteh]

I found something that might be useful in Total Carnage mode.

There is a secret fast way to exit Ingue Ferroque and complete the game. Get a full 3x charge. Then face the exit of that room, aim down and fire two consecutive rockets from the rocket launcher. If you get it right you’ll end up in the cove that has the end terminal in it