WHAT HAPPENED??

[Meta03]

I am a huge fan of Thief: The Dark Project and Thief II: The Metal Age, also the Dishonored series. I am ASTOUNDED how the developers of this "Thief" missed the mark. It is an ok game on its own, but in comparison to the first 2 games it almost makes me want to vomit. It has SO much potential (SERIOUSLY), just a few changes would have made it a masterpiece. It almost feels like they TRIED to destroy the Thief series, other than that I do not understand how they managed to mess Thief this bad. WHOEVER was in charge was the WRONG person, could they NOT hire someone from Looking Glass, or at least someone who actually cares about and GETS the first two games??

[jack_of_tears]

I hate the fact that everyone bags on the third game, it was a lot more accessible (finally putting a sight on the bow! Better map) than the previous games and the story was just as interesting. The only things it changed for the worse were the cutscenes and they were still good.

As for this game, your entire complaint is what killed this franchise. Your response mimics the response we all had when the game came out, but that was in a year a lot close to the original games than 2021. The style of this Thief game is a lot more in line with games like 'Dishonored' in its mechanics, which should be a lot easier to swallow these days than it was in 2014.

I hated the game when it was released, only got about 1 mission in and didn't touch it again until 2018. When I did come back and play again, I was removed enough from the original games to actually appreciate this one for the stuff it did right. I also found that this version of Garrett grows more recognizable and likable as the game progresses.

This will never be a classic, like the originals, but it was a decent game. It didn't help that they could never explain where this game fit in the timeline - as they were afraid to admit it was a reboot/prequel, so made up some nonsense about it being a different person adopting the Garrett name in the future, and it never sat well with fans. If you watch the cutscene movies of all 4 games, however, it becomes clear what this was meant to be (you can find them on Youtube). Also, all the references to the Metal Age and the Pagans made it evident that they intended history to somewhat repeat itself before the idea of sequels was canceled.

Sadly, we probably won't see another Thief game until someone gets desperate enough to drag it out and remake it because new ideas are too hard.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by jack_of_tears:

I hate the fact that everyone bags on the third game, it was a lot more accessible (finally putting a sight on the bow! Better map) than the previous games and the story was just as interesting. The only things it changed for the worse were the cutscenes and they were still good.

As for this game, your entire complaint is what killed this franchise. Your response mimics the response we all had when the game came out, but that was in a year a lot close to the original games than 2021. The style of this Thief game is a lot more in line with games like 'Dishonored' in its mechanics, which should be a lot easier to swallow these days than it was in 2014.

I hated the game when it was released, only got about 1 mission in and didn't touch it again until 2018. When I did come back and play again, I was removed enough from the original games to actually appreciate this one for the stuff it did right. I also found that this version of Garrett grows more recognizable and likable as the game progresses.

This will never be a classic, like the originals, but it was a decent game. It didn't help that they could never explain where this game fit in the timeline - as they were afraid to admit it was a reboot/prequel, so made up some nonsense about it being a different person adopting the Garrett name in the future, and it never sat well with fans. If you watch the cutscene movies of all 4 games, however, it becomes clear what this was meant to be (you can find them on Youtube). Also, all the references to the Metal Age and the Pagans made it evident that they intended history to somewhat repeat itself before the idea of sequels was canceled.

Sadly, we probably won't see another Thief game until someone gets desperate enough to drag it out and remake it because new ideas are too hard.

I like to imagine this is the kid that original Garret adopts at the end of 3, just many years later.

[jack_of_tears]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

I like to imagine this is the kid that original Garret adopts at the end of 3, just many years later.

That kid was a girl. Some people like to think she was the person he was with in the early game but 1) We know that not to be true due to the bs '400 hundred years in the future' thing, and also 2) This Garrett is way too young for him to have spent the last 10+ years raising this kid, and 3) We learn more about their backgrounds in this game and it includes neither him training her nor his time with the Keepers.

According to their official material, back in 2014, this game takes place something like 400 years after the original trilogy. Which doesn't explain why the tech is less advanced, if anything, and many of the same power groups are moving in the shadows. That lack of legitimate engagement with the timeline made their background obvious marketing bs and the game lacked some identity because of that. They wanted to cash in on the 'Thief' name but only vaguely address the world, the lore, and the characters the players cared about.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by jack_of_tears:

Originally posted by Kunovega:

I like to imagine this is the kid that original Garret adopts at the end of 3, just many years later.

That kid was a girl. Some people like to think she was the person he was with in the early game but 1) We know that not to be true due to the bs '400 hundred years in the future' thing, and also 2) This Garrett is way too young for him to have spent the last 10+ years raising this kid, and 3) We learn more about their backgrounds in this game and it includes neither him training her nor his time with the Keepers.

According to their official material, back in 2014, this game takes place something like 400 years after the original trilogy. Which doesn't explain why the tech is less advanced, if anything, and many of the same power groups are moving in the shadows. That lack of legitimate engagement with the timeline made their background obvious marketing bs and the game lacked some identity because of that. They wanted to cash in on the 'Thief' name but only vaguely address the world, the lore, and the characters the players cared about.

I didn't say it was accurate, thus "imagine"

I prefer to make up my own version of events and not follow the silly canon that this game doesn't respect properly anyway

[Deadeye]

I'm sure the devs were trying to keep as original as previous thief games , by giving it more of "modern look" to it.

[✙205🍉🐆→]

The answer is right here, practically under our feet => https://i.postimg.cc/r8RR5vL4/Thief-maps.jpg

[Zytel]

Originally posted by 205:

The answer is right here, practically under our feet => https://i.postimg.cc/r8RR5vL4/Thief-maps.jpg

That is just ONE of the problem of Thief 2014.

[Namkcor]

Idk what your complaints are but I'm about an hour in and so far it feels like the best in the entire franchise. Especially after how much of a ♥♥♥♥ show Deadly Shadows was. T2 was my favorite but I think this game has a different feel to it entirely. It was made in a different era, I don't think Thief was big enough that anyone cares enough to keep making them- likely going to have to keep a look out for indie games trying to make a spiritual successor. While individually the games are good, toe to toe with other multi-entry franchises I think Thief is pretty weak.

[A Duck Of Peace]

I'd read that the plan was to originally have this within the original Thief timeline and it was a decision at a later date to have it changed to a different era. You can see elements that match up in the story plot with the earlier Thief.

Erin could have been the child from Thief 3 and if she was say 10 - 12 at the time 18 years old wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Garret's age in Thief was never discussed be he could not have been older than mid 20's at the beginning and so it's not unfeasible that would have worked with the cannonical story.

As for the game it's a good addition to the franchise, however I wished they'd not ♥♥♥♥♥♥ around with the timeline since as people have pointed out it doesn't make much sense that the City had gotten to the point whereby the Hammerites and the Watchers faded into obscurity presumably wiped out, and Baron Northcrest with his experiments doesn't seem to have progressed much further than Father Karras had with the Mechanite order, even fallen behind since the Mechanites had perfected CCTV and alarm systems.

As for the game it was fun. They could have added in a bit more of the platforming elements that they'd seemed to want to add in, but didn't. I also feel they missed out with the Thief Taker General as a boss and over all interaction with the story.

The Asylum mission was the worst level to play through in my opinion, not because of it being a subpar level, it is by far one of the best. It was difficult to play through in long stints because of how good it was as a horror level.

The ending for me was a bit anti-climatic, but I think that's because we didn't get enough information about the primal and what it's long term effects would be had it not been disarmed.

All in all it was a good edition to the franchise, but since it didn't meet the expected financial targets I doubt we'll be getting another thief game soon. I hope I'm wrong, but that seems to be the case.

[Namkcor]

Originally posted by A Duck of Peace:

I'd read that the plan was to originally have this within the original Thief timeline and it was a decision at a later date to have it changed to a different era. You can see elements that match up in the story plot with the earlier Thief.

Erin could have been the child from Thief 3 and if she was say 10 - 12 at the time 18 years old wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Garret's age in Thief was never discussed be he could not have been older than mid 20's at the beginning and so it's not unfeasible that would have worked with the cannonical story.

As for the game it's a good addition to the franchise, however I wished they'd not ♥♥♥♥♥♥ around with the timeline since as people have pointed out it doesn't make much sense that the City had gotten to the point whereby the Hammerites and the Watchers faded into obscurity presumably wiped out, and Baron Northcrest with his experiments doesn't seem to have progressed much further than Father Karras had with the Mechanite order, even fallen behind since the Mechanites had perfected CCTV and alarm systems.

As for the game it was fun. They could have added in a bit more of the platforming elements that they'd seemed to want to add in, but didn't. I also feel they missed out with the Thief Taker General as a boss and over all interaction with the story.

The Asylum mission was the worst level to play through in my opinion, not because of it being a subpar level, it is by far one of the best. It was difficult to play through in long stints because of how good it was as a horror level.

The ending for me was a bit anti-climatic, but I think that's because we didn't get enough information about the primal and what it's long term effects would be had it not been disarmed.

All in all it was a good edition to the franchise, but since it didn't meet the expected financial targets I doubt we'll be getting another thief game soon. I hope I'm wrong, but that seems to be the case.

I can see that. It didn't even occur to me until you mentioned it that the Hammerites and pagans were gone. It's a shame they they aren't included, but have much preferred it be toned down anyway. A Hammerite church and some of them walking the streets would have sufficed for me, just for lore. But I feel they had their spotlight in Thief 2. Pagans I never really liked, I thought they were a bit too eccentric and supernatural to the point of being offputting. I was not a big fan of Thief 1 or their presence in Thief DS.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Reaverbot:

Idk what your complaints are but I'm about an hour in and so far it feels like the best in the entire franchise. Especially after how much of a ♥♥♥♥ show Deadly Shadows was. T2 was my favorite but I think this game has a different feel to it entirely. It was made in a different era, I don't think Thief was big enough that anyone cares enough to keep making them- likely going to have to keep a look out for indie games trying to make a spiritual successor. While individually the games are good, toe to toe with other multi-entry franchises I think Thief is pretty weak.

Deadly shadows with the right patches and mods is a better game than this. This game is far removed from the series and even as a stealth game its average at best.

[Namkcor]

Patches and mods are not the game that shipped. And I don't think any amount of mods can fix the terrible hub areas... To each their own I guess. I'm having more of a blast immersed in Thief 2014 than I did in the other three. I only recently bought the series and playing them back to back this one is the best. I don't care too much how good the stealth is but rather how fun the game is overall.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Reaverbot:

Patches and mods are not the game that shipped. And I don't think any amount of mods can fix the terrible hub areas... To each their own I guess. I'm having more of a blast immersed in Thief 2014 than I did in the other three. I only recently bought the series and playing them back to back this one is the best. I don't care too much how good the stealth is but rather how fun the game is overall.

Then you don't get "thief" then, Also even the first 2 games need some patches to get them running on modern systems especially the steam release. As far as plot, mechanics, and levels the other games including some deadly shadow levels are way better the this game.

[BlakeBot]

I enjoyed the game, if not as much as T1-3, but it obviously didn't know what it wanted to be. The story is incoherent, and many of the characters are annoying and poorly designed (though I thought Garrett was fine) and the levels are hit and miss, but in the end what sticks with me is the refined, fluid movement system and the incredible amount of talent and artistry that went into the environments and atmosphere. I loved skulking about through the dark city, hunting down the numerous hidden locations, listening to the creaking timbers while ransacking an upstairs apartment.

It's too bad that many of the missions are so linear when the city hubs are large and multilevel. The side quests from Ector and Vittori (and the bank DLC) are generally more entertaining than the campaign missions. Somebody also spent a lot of time and energy creating a third-person climbing mode that has no real purpose in the game at all.

That said, even in the main missions there are some standout levels. The Serendi Jewelers is actually a great first mission for new players with a decent sized neighborhood built around the shop and tons of options on how to approach it. I think the initial descent into the house of blossoms is masterful with layer upon layer of history, alternate routes and well-hidden secrets all over, and the house itself is reasonably interesting. The Architect's house and Baron's Mansion missions are both classic Thief home invasions with good stealthing. Finally, I found the Asylum level to be effective and well designed.

Add to all that a superb PC port by Nixxes, and a really impressive set of options to customize how the game looks and plays, and the whole package is worth looking past the atrocious writing and linear levels.

[tigerpoetry]

I've been reading this with interest. I haven't played the earlier games but this thread made me look into it. I can't comment on the earlier games, but I do like this game.

Yes, Thief has flaws and I never manage to find all the city loot (15 short this time around), but I enjoy it.

Generally, I agree with Blakebot's comments. I'll add my voice to the client mission endorsement with a spoiler. Do we need spoiler text for a 7 year-old game? I suppose so. The Vittori mission with the talking head is just great! When I first played it, I was cursing that blasted thing every time it chirped up with a comment! The devs even made the threats in the vicinity comment on it. I was certain this would lead to a detection. It never does, of course, but the dialogue from the threats is ace.

Blakebot: "Finally, I found the Asylum level to be effective and well designed."

Me too. The only frustrating part about it is how to 100% ghost it. It's possible but the solution is abstract, to say the least.

Bankai9212: "Then you don't get "thief" then, Also even the first 2 games need some patches to get them running on modern systems especially the steam release. As far as plot, mechanics, and levels the other games including some deadly shadow levels are way better the this game."

Hopefully I'll get around to earlier games, once I'm sure to get controller support with 'unofficial patches'. Working on it!

To the OP: I'm also a big fan of the Dishonored series (though I've criticised it in the past... largely due to getting miffed with Bethesda... ah, well. We can all change our minds.)

I played Dishonored (all of them) and Styx: Shades of Darkness, before playing this game. It then dawned on me that I liked stealth games and started searching for them.

Pure stealth games such as this are few and far between. We should cherish whatever we get. I think the devs are really putting their necks on the line, in terms of profit, when they make a stealth game. The reason?

Playing a stealth game requires... well... stealth. It needs patience and lots of it, or else it wouldn't be much of a stealth game. What do most gaming punters have in abundance? In my opinion, the answer to that last question is most definitely not "patience". They want a thrill a minute. They don't want to sit for even 2 seconds working out a guard's patrol path, let alone work out if that path changes in response to their own movements.

I can't comment on the earlier games, as I said. I will say that this is a genuine stealth game, on a par with Dishonored imo.