Annoying combat (especially the player vs human NPCs part)

[Jedlosson]

I was so hyped up for this game... And yet, I am only little more than 3 hours into game and it already managed to annoy me with its idiotic combat system to the point when I am seriously considering to delete the game permanently.

Sure, the combat might get better when you get some skills and better weapons. But what kind of a game designer puts the weakest and most annoying part of the game to the beginning? And believe me, having to combat clearly superiorly skilled enemies is annoying... Player character is completely unskillled in the beginning and yet the quest system does not reflect that at all.

In one of the first quests (in fact the very first side quest I received) I got a cinematic in which a guy kicks me in the middle of the fenced area to fight 4 humans at once...
(This part: https://youtu.be/uS1bkV0Jw5U?t=78 - another players video I found on youtube).

In that part of the game, players have only a couple of melee weapons, one or two throwing ones and no firearms and no molotovs. Player character during this part of the game CANNOT dodge, block or do anything else beside kicking a swinging... Enemies can crouch (which completely negates a kick or weapon swing) and even block your weapon strike and on many occasions don't even reflect being hit by a hammer (being hit by a hammer does not even interrupt their attack...)

Heh, even story background is a mismatching joke - you are a super highly trained commando guy who just happens to get tired and lose his breath after THREE swings with a metal pipe. I mean even I have more endurance and I am a couch potato and sport-anti-talent...

Not to mention that that very same metal pipe almost completely stops working after like 8 swings (because 8 swings is all it takes to waste its durability).

Sure, the graphics and visuals are amazing, environment detailed and well designed, character animations well made and parkour system not bad at all... but the combat? Combat is a game-breaker for me. Maybe the combat gets better in the later parts of the game, but the game designers made sure that many people stop playing well before reaching that point.

Just wanted to put my two cents in...

[upcoast]

You know that you're allowed to scurry around doing safe houses, collecting weapons, attacking Rais's men to get their better weapons.

[Jedlosson]

upcoast eredeti hozzászólása:

You know that you're allowed to scurry around doing safe houses, collecting weapons, attacking Rais's men to get their better weapons.

Not sure how you play when you are completely new to the game, but I usually do at least a few starting quests to get the feeling for the game and learn how to play. The quest design was made very unfriendly to players like me.

I mean I never expected this game to be a walk in the part (I generally suck in action games - that is why I started this game in lowest possible difficulty - and the choice is only "normal" or "hard").

They did not even bother to implement a learning curve. In the first quest, they just send you to fight 4 humans without any tips or hints what to expect.

If they would at least allow you to dodge or block without skill requirements. Or if the first quest was to fight one NPC in a training room so player could learn what to expect and how to do it without dying...

[Tenshu]

Uh... I was able to Dodge and Grab by the end of the Prologue (didn't even mean to, I just liked killing zombies in short bursts and climbing back up while proceeding with the prologue). Had to fight the NPCs that ran the phony suppressant market and actually forgot I COULD dodge and grab. It's just basic step in, take a swing, step out. And obviously aiming for the head.

Edit: Looking at the video... yup, that very same quest, first one for me as well. The AI seems to get stupid by the side of the building. Dude that throws stuff at you just stops for whatever reason, so you're left with the guys with wrenches.

[Jedlosson]

Tenshu eredeti hozzászólása:

Uh... I was able to Dodge and Grab by the end of the Prologue (didn't even mean to, I just liked killing zombies in short bursts and climbing back up while proceeding with the prologue). Had to fight the NPCs that ran the phony suppressant market and actually forgot I COULD dodge and grab. It's just basic step in, take a swing, step out. And obviously aiming for the head.

Edit: Looking at the video... yup, that very same quest, first one for me as well. The AI seems to get stupid by the side of the building. Dude that throws stuff at you just stops for whatever reason, so you're left with the guys with wrenches.

I wish I would have played it the same way you did. I saw the skill trees and was like "yay, the game promotes stealth gameplay, it even has the experience tree separate"... didnt even have experience killing zombies, until the side mission, I played stealth a evade style so I got like minimal ammount of combat XP (maybe killed 5-6 zombies total).

And then bam, the game puts me against 4 super-heroes who apparently aced the military commando course. :D And to annoy me more, it takes away my earned XP for player death.

[Jonny Sparta]

u can get survivor xp pretty easy with airdrops, and yea i agree u start off somewhat underpowered. I myself prefer to mess around with alot of side quests and random zombie slaughter before progressing the story.

**Combat Tip! -> add elemental mods to your weapons for much much better dmg.

[Jedlosson]

saint.f eredeti hozzászólása:

Combat Tip! -> add elemental mods to your weapons for much much better dmg.

Will do, thanks for the tip.

[Tenshu]

Jedlosson eredeti hozzászólása:

Tenshu eredeti hozzászólása:

Uh... I was able to Dodge and Grab by the end of the Prologue (didn't even mean to, I just liked killing zombies in short bursts and climbing back up while proceeding with the prologue). Had to fight the NPCs that ran the phony suppressant market and actually forgot I COULD dodge and grab. It's just basic step in, take a swing, step out. And obviously aiming for the head.

Edit: Looking at the video... yup, that very same quest, first one for me as well. The AI seems to get stupid by the side of the building. Dude that throws stuff at you just stops for whatever reason, so you're left with the guys with wrenches.

I wish I would have played it the same way you did. I saw the skill trees and was like "yay, the game promotes stealth gameplay, it even has the experience tree separate"... didnt even have experience killing zombies, until the side mission, I played stealth a evade style so I got like minimal ammount of combat XP (maybe killed 5-6 zombies total).

And then bam, the game puts me against 4 super-heroes who apparently aced the military commando course. :D And to annoy me more, it takes away my earned XP for player death.

Well like I said, I forgot I could dodge and grab by that point since I was used to just hitting things in the head, so I was just using pipes. I may just have experience playing similar survival games with the same combat. (Minecraft and early Grav and Rust)

Also I didn't notice till after killing the NPCs that there's a propane tank you could've cheesed them with by just throwing it at them repeatedly. (used it to score some free hits on the big dude with the hammer during the prologue as well)

[Barf Ninja]

At that point in the game I already had molotovs, that's how I defeated them. :p So, there's some way of getting them for sure. Not sure if I found them, bought, or created honestly.

[ThatsRidonkulous]

The most effective and consistent way for me to kill humans is with a drop attack. It works pretty much every time. If you can't find a height to jump off from, get the skill that allows you to vault over zombies (this includes humans). If mastered, you can vault off of one human, strafe mid-air, and drop attack on the same one.

[Jedlosson]

That's Ridonkulous! eredeti hozzászólása:

The most effective and consistent way for me to kill humans is with a drop attack. It works pretty much every time. If you can't find a height to jump off from, get the skill that allows you to vault over zombies (this includes humans). If mastered, you can vault off of one human, strafe mid-air, and drop attack on the same one.

Good one, gotta try it when I get the skill. Thx for tip.

[CommandoRyanbo]

You said it in your original post. That IS a sidequest that you can do ANY time you want. Yet you complain about bein under powered/skilled when the game gives you the freedom to experience all of it at any pace you want. And I agree with the suggestions above, they all really do help. I used the combat like Tenshu. Also I found it really helpful to train a couple of them at a time around the van and hit them a few times and I always went after the ranged guys first. And that guy in the vid was terrible all he did for 70% of that was do the wimpy kick. The kick is not as effective on humans as it is for shambling zombies. He should have figured that out quickly. Yet he just kept kicking. *facepalm*

[ThatsRidonkulous]

Jedlosson eredeti hozzászólása:

Good one, gotta try it when I get the skill. Thx for tip.

No problem, man. The game actually gets a lot easier the further you progress. I used to have the hardest time on the school mission in the Slums, but now I can take down groups of armed Rais riflemen in Old Town. Go figure... :I

[GSPOTxJESUS]

I know you're turned off about being under powered now but by the time you are level 15+ all zombies aside from volitles are a joke. I was actually turned off to how easy it got so soon, even in hard mode when you are level 15+ the zombies are still no threat.