The more I play, the more NPCs confuse me (spoilers)

[Netsa]

I'm right after the point where Rahim died, and it didn't make any sense to me. It looked like him and Omar were killed by mere biters. During the day.

Rahim is the one who teaches you parkour, and the gameplay teaches you not to be afraid of zombies as long as you keep moving. Why is there this huge disconnect between how dangerous zombies are to the player and how dangerous they are during story events? The intro of the game has Crane firing a single shot out of a pistol, then getting waylaid by something like a thousand virals. You can toss grenades at every single zombie you see and you won't attract that many virals.

I also wonder why Rahim and all the other runners seem to be either unarmed or worryingly weak. Sure, Crane has military training, but the rest of them have still been in Harran longer than he has. They can't kill any zombies at all?

[send labia pics]

Why are you questioning videogame logic? lmao.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by vaporwave:

Why are you questioning videogame logic? lmao.

My suspension of disbelief is tested when the story doesn't provide an explanation. :P
Why did we even tell Rahim about the bombs (even Brecken didn't know about them)? How was Rahim able to get all the way to the warehouse with a bite on his leg? He had to have been bitten already when he called you, since Omar didn't die until we heard him on the radio and there was no other emergency. Why is everyone turning into a zombie within minutes of getting bitten, but Crane is still fine, even though there hasn't been any antizin coming in for a while? Who even is Omar, and how could his physical strength be so weak and his awareness of his surroundings be so bad that he couldn't handle a couple of biters on a bridge?

[sheo]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by vaporwave:

Why are you questioning videogame logic? lmao.

My suspension of disbelief is tested when the story doesn't provide an explanation. :P
Why did we even tell Rahim about the bombs (even Brecken didn't know about them)? How was Rahim able to get all the way to the warehouse with a bite on his leg? He had to have been bitten already when he called you, since Omar didn't die until we heard him on the radio and there was no other emergency. Why is everyone turning into a zombie within minutes of getting bitten, but Crane is still fine, even though there hasn't been any antizin coming in for a while? Who even is Omar, and how could his physical strength be so weak and his awareness of his surroundings be so bad that he couldn't handle a couple of biters on a bridge?

The entire idea of Antizin is never mentioned again after the school mission. It makes no sense, I agree

[Poppi !!]

It pretty much just " zombie apocalypse survival " ( with the parlour ), but much of it does seem to be up to the player to already know. As well we should really, playing all this crazy s**t.

Bottom line is that this game never holds your hand and what you don't know, your forced to learn fast, wether it makes sense or not.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by _StanleyTweedle_:

It pretty much just " zombie apocalypse survival " ( with the parlour ), but much of it does seem to be up to the player to already know. As well we should really, playing all this crazy s**t.

Bottom line is that this game never holds your hand and what you don't know, your forced to learn fast, wether it makes sense or not.

I didn't say that; this isn't a difficult game. My problem is with the story. Why is it that Crane is an invincible, ultimate badass, but every NPC dies from a stiff breeze? In fact, I bet Omar literally died from a stiff breeze, and was only nibbled by zombies later.

[StabbyU2]

The reason why is to have Plot advancement and probably the reason Rahim got bit is because he is a stupid reckless Kid and went out there unarmed and got swarmed. As far as crane goes he ins't really fine it is implied that he is going to eventually turn the antizin is just a bandaid and as you get further in the story it come into play there is still alot of story for you to go through i wont spoil much but it gets alot more interesting as you go.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by stabbyu2:

The reason why is to have Plot advancement and probably the reason Rahim got bit is because he is a stupid reckless Kid and went out there unarmed and got swarmed. As far as crane goes he ins't really fine it is implied that he is going to eventually turn the antizin is just a bandaid and as you get further in the story it come into play there is still alot of story for you to go through i wont spoil much but it gets alot more interesting as you go.

I've already finished the game since I wrote this and I'm most of the way through a Nightmare+ run. The story didn't get better.

On the subject of Rahim, on my second run through that area, I found that there's 3 other bodies around where Omar is found that you can flip over, though it's unclear whether they're just zombies or other runners. Point being, Rahim being reckless doesn't excuse whoever else came out there with him. If it was just Omar, why didn't he have a weapon? If it was four guys, why didn't any of them have weapons? Besides the fact that you can't really get swarmed on the edge of a bridge that you can easily jump off of, which was likely Rahim's escape route, there was even a car trap right where Omar died. What was the point of Crane activating those traps for the runners if they don't use them?

Crane's infection was used purely to try and stir up emotion on the part where Jade dies. That's it. His infection was articially lengthened so that he and Jade would turn at almost the exact same time, which makes no sense and it ticks me off. That's the only reason why Rahim takes a bite and turns in less than 15 minutes, Jade takes a bite and turns in less than a couple of hours, yet Crane takes a bite and takes something like a full month. Jade and Rahim didn't even experience seizures. The game's excuse? "I still have some antizin in my system." BULL. There's the possibility that antizin just works way longer than we think, but the story's dialogue in the first half doesn't seem to support that (if I remember, right).

I have to disagree with you. No, the story does not get more interesting as you go. In fact, I have one extra question that the game doesn't explain. Why doesn't anyone ever try to kill Rais? I'm serious. Why not? He has no trouble killing his own people on a whim, treats them all as expendable, then everyone is surprised when he kills all of his closest men when he gets a ride out of there. Everyone hates him, he's not very well protected, no one in his army really believes in his ideals, and the finale shows that he can't even fight that well. Everyone being afraid is not an excuse. NOBODY tried to just shoot the guy? Every single person who was dissatisfied with Rais simply ran away?

[StabbyU2]

Fear is a good motivator why do you think the north Koreans are still in power or the Castros in cuba.

[Netsa]

I have no doubt that fear is a good motivator, but I'm pretty sure real dictators have more guards, and there isn't really much for Rais's thugs to be afraid of. He has no relatives or anyone else who would seek revenge if he died that we know of, no one is particularly reliant on his support, and his army could still function without him.

As far as I know, with North Korea and Cuba, there's actually a lot of people that believe(d) in them and credit them with the success of their country. You could potentially say the same about Rais, except that he's not the leader of a country, he's the leader of a mafia. It's a little harder to believe, in that case, that no one ever took a swipe at him.

Rais gives a speech at the end of the game saying that he's never lost a fight in his life, which could contribute to the fear — and maybe this is just the incredibly bad fight sequence talking — but that's hard to believe as well.

[Regi]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by stabbyu2:

The reason why is to have Plot advancement and probably the reason Rahim got bit is because he is a stupid reckless Kid and went out there unarmed and got swarmed. As far as crane goes he ins't really fine it is implied that he is going to eventually turn the antizin is just a bandaid and as you get further in the story it come into play there is still alot of story for you to go through i wont spoil much but it gets alot more interesting as you go.

I've already finished the game since I wrote this and I'm most of the way through a Nightmare+ run. The story didn't get better.

On the subject of Rahim, on my second run through that area, I found that there's 3 other bodies around where Omar is found that you can flip over, though it's unclear whether they're just zombies or other runners. Point being, Rahim being reckless doesn't excuse whoever else came out there with him. If it was just Omar, why didn't he have a weapon? If it was four guys, why didn't any of them have weapons? Besides the fact that you can't really get swarmed on the edge of a bridge that you can easily jump off of, which was likely Rahim's escape route, there was even a car trap right where Omar died. What was the point of Crane activating those traps for the runners if they don't use them?

Crane's infection was used purely to try and stir up emotion on the part where Jade dies. That's it. His infection was articially lengthened so that he and Jade would turn at almost the exact same time, which makes no sense and it ticks me off. That's the only reason why Rahim takes a bite and turns in less than 15 minutes, Jade takes a bite and turns in less than a couple of hours, yet Crane takes a bite and takes something like a full month. Jade and Rahim didn't even experience seizures. The game's excuse? "I still have some antizin in my system." BULL. There's the possibility that antizin just works way longer than we think, but the story's dialogue in the first half doesn't seem to support that (if I remember, right).

I have to disagree with you. No, the story does not get more interesting as you go. In fact, I have one extra question that the game doesn't explain. Why doesn't anyone ever try to kill Rais? I'm serious. Why not? He has no trouble killing his own people on a whim, treats them all as expendable, then everyone is surprised when he kills all of his closest men when he gets a ride out of there. Everyone hates him, he's not very well protected, no one in his army really believes in his ideals, and the finale shows that he can't even fight that well. Everyone being afraid is not an excuse. NOBODY tried to just shoot the guy? Every single person who was dissatisfied with Rais simply ran away?

To add to that. If you remember from the start of the game , Crane takes about 2 bottles of antizin with him from the GRE crate he had to destroy and we never see him mention it again. If he ( most likely ) still has them by the time Jade gets infected then he was given basically 3 bottles of antizin , an injection gun and only 2 poeple to stick a bottle full of antibiotics into.

[Netsa]

I know what you're talking about, though I thought he only took 1? I'm not sure he would still have them by the time he gets to Jade in Old Town, since there were several parts where he's suffering bad seizures. If he was going to take the antizin, if he had it at all, those would have been the times. It's possible that scene was a holdover from something, or was just easily misinterpreted.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by OriginalUserName:

Well, Omar was literally carrying a bomb and wasn't a runner anyway. He was probably swarmed by virals due to his slowness which slowed down Rahim too. I'm sure Omar didn't have a weapon(it'd be much harder to move with a bomb AND a machete) and Rahim was just a kid - weapons were either too heavy for him or Brecken just forbid ppl to give him one due to his reckless behaviour. Or he just thought that he'd be faster without one.

Then how did Rahim get from the bridge to the train? He had to have done it while carrying the bomb and with several zombies on his tail and with a bite on his leg. It couldn't have been slowing them down that much, unless the virals just stopped for some reason when they killed Omar, and Rahim only had to deal with biters. Why even bring Omar if he's that slow and can't defend himself?

Also, Rahim isn't that young and weapons aren't that heavy. He can use a machete, or at least a knife. And how was Crane carrying the bomb? Magic?

Originally posted by OriginalUserName:

Yes, he took only one. Also, antizin seems to be effective for a long time(3-4 days) and is only needed so much after the infection. Crane got 2 after he got infected(one after he got carried to the tower and another after waking up). He probably got more before the Rais business at the slums (which only took a few real days) and then he either(implicitly) got another or just used the one he took from the crate. He'll get another one a few days later(oh, if you're finished: it's the one Rais gives to him and jade). It seems like he got 4-5 shots in a 1-2 weeks which seems to be logical.

That's too many assumed shots. He definitely got one upon waking up, and from that point he has 3-4 days according to your logic. The player is controlling Crane the entire time, but never sees him using any antizin before the encounter with Jade in Old Town. Unless it's explicitly shown or mentioned, I think it's reasonable to say that Crane just didn't take any over that whole period (I know we don't see him eat or use the restroom either, but antizin is a lot more important to the story).

You're probably right about antizin lasting several days, and I guess the only official days are those where Crane is forced to do something at night or forced to sleep, but I don't remember how many times that happens. Taking it at face value, it sounds more plausible that Crane would still be affected by the antizin, but it also exacerbates the issue of Rahim's turning time.

[Netsa]

My problem with Rahim's bite wasn't that it was too long, but that it was too short. Assuming Crane responds to it as soon as the call comes, Rahim turns into a zombie much faster than pretty much every other bitten character in the game.

Virals stopping after killing someone isn't reflected in the gameplay or anywhere else. I'm pretty sure Rahim ran to the station because that's where Crane told him to go. Remember, all of this happens during and after the call to Crane. Omar had to still be alive at that point for us to hear him get attacked over the radio.

As you said, Rahim probably wasn't the one carrying the bomb. So, there was no reason for him to be unarmed. I would go so far as to say one of them had to be armed if they were going to make it that far in the first place. Assuming he was carrying something but still got bit, the sequence of events would go like this:
>Omar carrying the bomb, Rahim has some sort of weapon. They make it to the bridge without incident.
> Something "really bad" happens, presumably the bite. Rahim may have attacked a zombie, or got grabbed by one he thought was dead, and got a bite on his... upper leg. The zombie was diving for him, or the ground zombie really climbed up there, I don't know.
> He calls Crane for help, during which Omar is attacked by random virals (the virals couldn't have been there at the time the call was made since Rahim didn't sound like he was moving). Possibly the other flippable bodies we find at the scene. Or it could have been normal biters and they just picked an extremely bad place to rest.
> Rahim tosses his weapon, grabs the bomb, sets off the car trap to kill the virals/biters, runs to the station and locks himself inside one of the train cars.
> Rahim panics and activates the bomb, then is rescued by Crane.

I guess it's possible, though Rahim's judgement had to be all sorts of impaired. According to the wiki, the Omar that goes with Rahim is the same Omar from the escort quest (the fisherman guy). In what world, even while drunk, would it seem like a good idea to pick him for an important running mission? I want to say he had no other options, but at that point, he probably would have had a better chance solo.

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Again, that's too many assumed shots. Even the one at the very beginning of the game for the 3-day sleep isn't clearly stated, but I think it's a fair assumption.

The one from the crate is the problem here, since it's the main one that keeps the story together. Without it, his infection makes no sense unless each injection lasts significantly longer. He's never seen actually using the antizin he takes from the crate. It can't be implicit, our view is on him for almost the entire time and no one ever mentions it. This is bad writing at best, even if you're right.

[Netsa]

1. If blowing up the building wasn't explicitly timed, it would be less of a sticking point for me.

4. Some things go right past reckless, and straight into stupid.

Regardless of whether or not it has to happen, if the story never mentions it anywhere and the methods aren't clear, that means it's an assumption. Antizin was clearly an afterthought for the parts of the game after the antizin drops stop coming in. Remember, Brecken had no access to any antizin outside of the 5 vials from Rais by the time the arena comes around.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, since you're right that the story makes no sense otherwise. But you have to admit, that's really bad storywriting.