The Stuffed Turtle exploit breaks the game 100%

[Dragon]

I am amazed that the devs let the Stuffed Turtle exploit slide without patching it.

What I'm talking about is: entering Stuffed Turtle, grappling over to the switch, turning it off, grabbing the lockpicks and 3 crates in the first room, leaving Stuffed Turtle, and then repeating the process.

You can get 3 crates per minute (I didn't time it exactly, but you see my point) this way, very easily.

This completely negates all the challenge of the game thus breaks the game 100%.

I find it absurd that they don't patch this. People who use this exploit have a ludicrous advantage over those who don't. Basically, this exploit turns the game into an exploit-to-win game.

They should patch this exploit by making it so you need to complete the whole mission, or else you don't get to keep any of the crates you got inside of it.

[just.nuke.em]

Why exactly does it break the game? All you said is it does and that you don't like it. Why should I agree with you?

Originally posted by Dragon:

People who use this exploit have a ludicrous advantage over those who don't.

As is true in any multiple player game with anything resembling a grind mechanic.

[Blade Master]

Not really, for first it's not an exploit. I believe it's fully intended this way by developers.

Think of it like this, Stuffed Turtle or generally quarantine zones are only viable way of leveling up Legend skill-tree, for most of the people.

As great number of them get tired and bored of how slow Legend skill-tree leveling is, resorting to Stuffed Turtle and then finding it boring, they end up cheating their skill-trees one or another way.

You'll be surprised how many people don't get that they aren't supposed to max out Legend skill-tree soon, or rather you aren't supposed to absolutely focus on it. They think they can't finish game without being 250, therefore seek for faster ways to level it up, thankfully Stuffed Turtle saves some from cheating, and other times it doesn't.

There is actually supposed to be many other ways of leveling up Legend skill-tree as fast as Stuffed Turtle but currently Stuffed Turtle or other preferred quarantine zone are all leading.

Yes people with higher Legend skill-trees ranks have advantage over others, but this is PvE game and Legend skill-tree has barely any impact on nests and Hunter in Be the Zombie. Going back to PvE, this is mainly from very low Legend rank player till around 100-150 there is huge advantage. There is no huge difference between Legend rank 130-150 and 250 because a rank ~130-150 can already max out all best skills with ability to respec.

However what you will see very often is worse, people with Legend rank of 250 barely knowing anything about game, and 99% the time those are people who either cheated their Legend rank or received cheated packages from cheaters, which is way worse in my opinion than legit people who leveled up Legend skill-tree legit and are at advantage.

If Stuffed Turtle didn't exist, without any fast ways to level up Legend skill-tree, most people would be simply cheating it, which is unfortunately already a case.

Stuffed Turtle is simply way for those to level up Legend skill-tree faster or Survivor skill-tree sometimes those returning from other platforms.

I don't see anything wrong with Stuffed Turtle or generally quarantine zone DROP farming but I'd have preferred other fast ways of leveling up Legend skill-tree, after all it's better to play the game normally than just spend time farming DROPs which is boring for most, but at least thankfully there are less cheaters because of this farming.

[Overseer]

Its definitely an exploit. And i don't think that it is designed to be used to the extreme. As that would be really dumb design that leads to boring grinding. If anything i would say its more of an oversight they let in to give players an option. Since no one is forced to grind and the game works just fine without it even on Nighmare+.
I for my part only used Stuffed Turtle when i lost 70+% XP from unfair/broken events on Nightmare difficulty. Like falling through the ground or from Virals/Volatiles that glitched through a wall.

[Dragon]

Originally posted by just.nuke.em:

Why exactly does it break the game?

Because the entire game is based on using skill & tactics to acquire crates in order to level up and thus improve your character (i.e. sneaking around at night and avoiding Volatiles while you reach & loot crates; and/or fighting off Rais' tough goons & Virals during the day while you reach & loot crates, etc.).

The exploit described in the OP 100% removes all of that from the game. It literally removes all the challenge out of the game. It's basically an "I win" button.

[Dragon]

Originally posted by BladeMaster:

Think of it like this, Stuffed Turtle or generally quarantine zones are only viable way of leveling up Legend skill-tree, for most of the people.

If Stuffed Turtle didn't exist, without any fast ways to level up Legend skill-tree, most people would be simply cheating it, which is unfortunately already a case.

Stuffed Turtle is simply way for those to level up Legend skill-tree faster or Survivor skill-tree sometimes those returning from other platforms.

I don't see anything wrong with Stuffed Turtle or generally quarantine zone DROP farming

The argument you are making is a different one than the one I'm making.

I agree that quarantine zones should be viable options for leveling up the Legend skill tree. I'm not saying that concept should be removed from the game.

Rather, my argument is that the exploit involving taking 3 crates from the first, enemy-less room of Stuffed Turtle, in about a minute, a room which contains zero opposition other than electricity, and the fact that this process can be repeated endlessly, is ludicrous.

If they made it so you had to complete the entire mission of Stuffed Turtle, or else you get zero crates from it, then people could still farm their Legend skills fast in Stuffed Turtle.

Alternatively, they could fill the first room of Stuffed Turtle with a crap-load of zombies who are immune to electricity, which would also solve the problem. Or, they could remove the electricity and just fill that room with a crap-load of zombies only.

Stuffed Turtle would still be farmed fairly quickly under any of those conditions. Players would just have to use a bit of skill and effort to do so, as they should. Games are supposed to have some challenge to them.

[Igris]

I am about to tell you something that is pretty obvious , nobody cares , except you , just had to be that special snowflake

[Dragon]

Originally posted by just.nuke.em:

As is true in any multiple player game with anything resembling a grind mechanic.

Not really. That statement is conflating two different issues into one:

1. Grinding itself
2. Doing something that takes literally almost zero skill whatsoever and has almost zero challenge to it.

A game that has only factor 1, but not factor 2 also, is not comparable an on apples-to-apples basis to this Dying Light exploit.

Other games that have grinding at least force the player to use a small amount of skill & care & effort to defeat some enemies as they are grinding, or else they lose. But that is not the case with this Dying Light exploit.

[Blade Master]

Originally posted by Dragon:

Originally posted by BladeMaster:

Think of it like this, Stuffed Turtle or generally quarantine zones are only viable way of leveling up Legend skill-tree, for most of the people.

If Stuffed Turtle didn't exist, without any fast ways to level up Legend skill-tree, most people would be simply cheating it, which is unfortunately already a case.

Stuffed Turtle is simply way for those to level up Legend skill-tree faster or Survivor skill-tree sometimes those returning from other platforms.

I don't see anything wrong with Stuffed Turtle or generally quarantine zone DROP farming

The argument you are making is a different one than the one I'm making.

I agree that quarantine zones should be viable options for leveling up the Legend skill tree. I'm not saying that concept should be removed from the game.

Rather, my argument is that the exploit involving taking 3 crates from the first, enemy-less room of Stuffed Turtle, in about a minute, a room which contains zero opposition other than electricity, and the fact that this process can be repeated endlessly, is ludicrous.

If they made it so you had to complete the entire mission of Stuffed Turtle, or else you get zero crates from it, then people could still farm their Legend skills fast in Stuffed Turtle.

Alternatively, they could fill the first room of Stuffed Turtle with a crap-load of zombies who are immune to electricity, which would also solve the problem. Or, they could remove the electricity and just fill that room with a crap-load of zombies only.

Stuffed Turtle would still be farmed fairly quickly under any of those conditions. Players would just have to use a bit of skill and effort to do so, as they should. Games are supposed to have some challenge to them.

No, that's not an exploit. You get to keep as many DROPs as you collect. This is a lot better, most fair and realistic mechanic.

If you'd like to play through Stuffed Turtle by finishing everything, looting, killing zombies, that's your option and feel free to do that, I also play Stuffed Turtle this way. But there's nothing wrong with 3 DROP method of farming, I don't think so.

[Red]

Originally posted by BladeMaster:

No, that's not an exploit. You get to keep as many DROPs as you collect. This is a lot better, most fair and realistic mechanic.

If you'd like to play through Stuffed Turtle by finishing everything, looting, killing zombies, that's your option and feel free to do that, I also play Stuffed Turtle this way. But there's nothing wrong with 3 DROP method of farming, I don't think so.

Mate, it's a blatant exploit no matter how you wanna tag it. As long as your main focus is on leveling up there's literally no reason to try to get the other two crates when it would take far longer and it would be far riskier than just getting out of the mission and back in. The benefits of the exploit method are far greater and less RNG bound than playing the mission the intended way.

In any case, there's no issue with the game letting you keep whatever you grab when you escape, that mechanic by itself isn't broken, it's just the level design in that particular mission that's stupid due to a dumb oversight. Also arguing whether it's "Wrong" or not from a morally point of view is at the end of the day pointless anyway since grinding for XP is just a time sink and not that much of a deal so it's not surprising to see people trying to bypass it via in-game mechanics. It's also a coop game so it has far less of an impact than in a pvp game.

[Blade Master]

Originally posted by Red:

Originally posted by BladeMaster:

No, that's not an exploit. You get to keep as many DROPs as you collect. This is a lot better, most fair and realistic mechanic.

If you'd like to play through Stuffed Turtle by finishing everything, looting, killing zombies, that's your option and feel free to do that, I also play Stuffed Turtle this way. But there's nothing wrong with 3 DROP method of farming, I don't think so.

Mate, it's a blatant exploit no matter how you wanna tag it. As long as your main focus is on leveling up there's literally no reason to try to get the other two crates when it would take far longer and it would be far riskier than just getting out of the mission and back in. The benefits of the exploit method are far greater and less RNG bound than playing the mission the intended way.

In any case, there's no issue with the game letting you keep whatever you grab when you escape, that mechanic by itself isn't broken, it's just the level design in that particular mission that's stupid due to a dumb oversight. Also arguing whether it's "Wrong" or not from a morally point of view is at the end of the day pointless anyway since grinding for XP is just a time sink and not that much of a deal so it's not surprising to see people trying to bypass it via in-game mechanics. It's also a coop game so it has far less of an impact than in a pvp game.

I can't call it exploit, but that's probably because I've played Dying Light for a while. At this point in this game, being end game player there would be hardly risks even if there were zombies it would still be same, piece of cake with grappling hook.

Same applies to rooms that require lock picking, the bomber is piece of cake to take out with SMG or other firearm, the farming would be still same, except take a little more attention perhaps but hardly any risk or skill involved, which in the end would only make it annoying and more time consuming than it is already. It's no big deal in the end.

Let's be honest, a lot of people hate Stuffed Turtle simply because it's boring.

Even if you call it exploit, it still costs effort and time. Do you think it's only few or several Stuffed Turtle runs and boom, you are quickly at super advantage compared to other players? Not really. It takes around 6,577 DROPs to hit Legend rank 250 from 1 which is around 30 hours of Stuffed Turtle continuous farming. Stuffed Turtle isn't only quarantine zone that allows you this by the way.

For details there is guide at my profile regarding fastest way of leveling up and there is Legend XP table guide with video of 1-250 full timelapse.

The way Stuffed Turtle is right now, it simply helps players and I don't see issues with it.

If Stuffed Turtle were nerfed, there would be no benefit to any players except increasing number of cheaters, that's all. Instead, best I think it would be better if Legend skill-tree leveling got rework, e.g make other ways of leveling viable by buffing experience from certain activites such as bounties, daily bounties, destroying hives, more experience from Agility and Power, etc, which would rival in terms of experience gain and be more rewarding than sitting and farming quarantine zones.

This would instead encourage and give hope to players that it's possible to max out Legend skill-tree without extensive amount of farming or resorting to cheating, by simply playing and enjoying the game.

However unfortunately that's way too late, developers completely moved to Bad Blood and Dying Light 2. Though we still get dockets.

[^3Tinkles]

Originally posted by BladeMaster:

Originally posted by Red:

Mate, it's a blatant exploit no matter how you wanna tag it. As long as your main focus is on leveling up there's literally no reason to try to get the other two crates when it would take far longer and it would be far riskier than just getting out of the mission and back in. The benefits of the exploit method are far greater and less RNG bound than playing the mission the intended way.

In any case, there's no issue with the game letting you keep whatever you grab when you escape, that mechanic by itself isn't broken, it's just the level design in that particular mission that's stupid due to a dumb oversight. Also arguing whether it's "Wrong" or not from a morally point of view is at the end of the day pointless anyway since grinding for XP is just a time sink and not that much of a deal so it's not surprising to see people trying to bypass it via in-game mechanics. It's also a coop game so it has far less of an impact than in a pvp game.

I can't call it exploit, but that's probably because I've played Dying Light for a while. At this point in this game, being end game player there would be hardly risks even if there were zombies it would still be same, piece of cake with grappling hook.

Same applies to rooms that require lock picking, the bomber is piece of cake to take out with SMG or other firearm, the farming would be still same, except take a little more attention perhaps but hardly any risk or skill involved, which in the end would only make it annoying and more time consuming than it is already. It's no big deal in the end.

Let's be honest, a lot of people hate Stuffed Turtle simply because it's boring.

Even if you call it exploit, it still costs effort and time. Do you think it's only few or several Stuffed Turtle runs and boom, you are quickly at super advantage compared to other players? Not really. It takes around 6,577 DROPs to hit Legend rank 250 from 1 which is around 30 hours of Stuffed Turtle continuous farming. Stuffed Turtle isn't only quarantine zone that allows you this by the way.

For details there is guide at my profile regarding fastest way of leveling up and there is Legend XP table guide with video of 1-250 full timelapse.

The way Stuffed Turtle is right now, it simply helps players and I don't see issues with it.

If Stuffed Turtle were nerfed, there would be no benefit to any players except increasing number of cheaters, that's all. Instead, best I think it would be better if Legend skill-tree leveling got rework, e.g make other ways of leveling viable by buffing experience from certain activites such as bounties, daily bounties, destroying hives, more experience from Agility and Power, etc, which would rival in terms of experience gain and be more rewarding than sitting and farming quarantine zones.

This would instead encourage and give hope to players that it's possible to max out Legend skill-tree without extensive amount of farming or resorting to cheating, by simply playing and enjoying the game.

However unfortunately that's way too late, developers completely moved to Bad Blood and Dying Light 2. Though we still get dockets.

And the fact that the grind is that bad even with this "exploit not exploit" then that shows how horrid the grind is. Hopefully DL2 isn't this bad..

[LeperousKhan]

Or you can just stand on top of a car and kick heads in.

[Red]

Originally posted by BladeMaster:

...

Just to make things clear, me calling it an exploit is mostly just a matter of tagging things right. I don't really like how most modern games rely so much on a progression system that encourages min-maxing so much that make the game partially feel like a job where you can find yourself at times playing the game for the sake of increasing gauges for the sake of just doing that. It also encourages you to measure the game in "XP per minute" rather than just making you want to play the game for the sake of having fun.

From what I've played so far the grind for the 3 main trees is fine, at least on nightmare. I increased them a lot by just playing the game and it was pretty fun overall. HOWEVER, I can totally see that the legend tree is going to be a pain in the ass to max up and I fully agree in that it will be a painful grind. I do feel like that particular tree is not exactly something I would actually care to max since it doesn't unlock any new skills AFAIK but I'm a bit more than halfway through the game so far so my opinion might change there.

Yeah, I think the exploit should be fixed by putting some enemies and whatnot, but at the same time I would like the entire game to be rebalanced to the point you can play anything and still get XP worth the effort and time. The closest to perfection Dying Light can get to would be a state where you don't actually feel like you're grinding and where every activity will net you some good progression, encouraging variety.

[^3Tinkles]

Originally posted by Red:

Originally posted by BladeMaster:

...

Just to make things clear, me calling it an exploit is mostly just a matter of tagging things right. I don't really like how most modern games rely so much on a progression system that encourages min-maxing so much that make the game partially feel like a job where you can find yourself at times playing the game for the sake of increasing gauges for the sake of just doing that. It also encourages you to measure the game in "XP per minute" rather than just making you want to play the game for the sake of having fun.

From what I've played so far the grind for the 3 main trees is fine, at least on nightmare. I increased them a lot by just playing the game and it was pretty fun overall. HOWEVER, I can totally see that the legend tree is going to be a pain in the ass to max up and I fully agree in that it will be a painful grind. I do feel like that particular tree is not exactly something I would actually care to max since it doesn't unlock any new skills AFAIK but I'm a bit more than halfway through the game so far so my opinion might change there.

Yeah, I think the exploit should be fixed by putting some enemies and whatnot, but at the same time I would like the entire game to be rebalanced to the point you can play anything and still get XP worth the effort and time. The closest to perfection Dying Light can get to would be a state where you don't actually feel like you're grinding and where every activity will net you some good progression, encouraging variety.

Your last sentence there, that's key. Hopefully they take note of that for Dying Light 2 - however, I wouldn't hold your breath.

[Poppi !!]

..." conflating "...oh my.
I'm using that in a sentence today.

BladeMaster, why do you find this blatant bait so irresitible ?