Dying Light

Dying Light

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Why bows with higher damage are weaker than crossbows?
Difficulty: Nightmare. Bows skill level: 25. All bows are fully upgraded with King mods.

A Ranger Bow: damage 5500; a Dragon's Breath bow: damage 5852.
Both bows require 2 headshots to kill regular zombie.

Compound Crossbow: damage 3960; Upgraded Crossbow: damage 5280.
Both crossbows require 1 headshot to kill regular zombie.

Bows require 1 more headshot to kill a zombie despite having higher damage.

Why?
Last edited by Dark Nero *=_VF_=*; Oct 8, 2019 @ 8:41am
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
Stalker. Oct 7, 2019 @ 8:18pm 
I have also noticed that. Also the longer the draw on the bow the arrow tends to go right through the head & dissappears.. I lose a lot of arrows.
Twinkletoes Oct 7, 2019 @ 9:06pm 
All none base bows usually feature a penetration effect when fully charged, I have never seen it work to my benefit and honestly it does annoy.

The arrows don't disappear they just go through them.
Hawky Oct 8, 2019 @ 4:18am 
Started the game again last month and I can confirm. The very first bow's arrows got stuck in zombies, upgraded to current event's Deadeye's Bow and the arrows now penetrate through them and get stuck in the ground/wall. So now I shoot with bow from higher places so I don't have to go tens of metres just to look for an arrow.

Crossbows have much higher penetration energy than bows in real life too.
Would be very nice to get an answer from developers why the damage numbers the game shows do not correspond the real state of things. I'll probably duplicate my post in the "bugs" thread.
DedZedNub Dec 31, 2019 @ 3:05am 
I do not want to post misinformation, but, to my knowledge, the descriptions of the Compound Crossbows and Crossbows in general in the game, actually say that they have a specific headshot bonus. On Normal they certainly will 1 shot with a headshot when other bows did not.

I can also normally one shot with the Ranger Bow to the head, now, but I have added Legend Levels since.

Seems bow and crossbow outputs depend partially on the events and patches. Also, I found that for the Bows especially, the hitboxes of most zombies, for at least a while, did require you to aim slightly above the head, or it was not counted as a 1 shot kill.

So, this complicates the whole issue and makes my own experiences rather uncertain as to what it means. Unfortunately I did not take part in the event recently that earned the better Dragon's Breath Bow and the like, so can't commend on those either.
i think there might be an impact mechanic when you hit a zombie with a projectile, so im guessing that Xbows have a higher impact damange than bows, but im not sure about that.
Last edited by [Tяαgιιc] Rasputin; Dec 31, 2019 @ 6:25am
costas Dec 31, 2019 @ 8:18am 
I guess it's to balance off the damage and fire rate.
Originally posted by DedZedNub:
the descriptions of the Compound Crossbows and Crossbows in general in the game, actually say that they have a specific headshot bonus
Where did you find such description in the game, about specific hs bonus? Can you make a screenshot?

Originally posted by DedZedNub:
Unfortunately I did not take part in the event recently that earned the better Dragon's Breath Bow and the like
If you want, add me and I will try to share a bow with you.
Last edited by Dark Nero *=_VF_=*; Jan 3, 2020 @ 5:04am
Quillathe May 25, 2020 @ 3:58am 

Originally posted by Dark Nero *=_VF_=*:
Difficulty: Nightmare. Bows skill level: 25. All bows are fully upgraded with King mods.

A Ranger Bow: damage 5500; a Dragon's Breath bow: damage 5852.
Both bows require 2 headshots to kill regular zombie.

Compound Crossbow: damage 3960; Upgraded Crossbow: damage 5280.
Both crossbows require 1 headshot to kill regular zombie.

Bows require 1 more headshot to kill a zombie despite having higher damage.

Why?


Currently crossbow from Shu warrior dlc deal 5500 dmg
Timur May 25, 2020 @ 11:37pm 
Weird, it works the other way around for me, on Nightmare I can one shot zombie in the head and my bow is nowhere near 5000 damage, around 3000 ish, crossbow on the other hand.
Quillathe May 26, 2020 @ 8:28am 
Yea crossbow is more effective but have longer reload time
Bow can be faster during spam fews atack and have a bit auto aim
StinVec May 26, 2020 @ 2:14pm 
Bows have an x5 head damage multiplier on them and deal the same damage (and force) regardless of the distance away the enemy is.

Crossbows have an x10 head damage multiplier and, just as with most firearms, they also have damage tiers so they inflict less damage (and force) the further away the enemy is.

As noted by others, game difficulty level also adjusts damage dealt by the player to various enemies. This adjustment is not apparent in the damage stat on the weapon and is calculated when the enemy is hit as it varies by enemy. The amount can vary as it is a min/max multiplier range, but the min and max values only vary on the Nightmare difficulty and they are the same on other difficulties.

e.g. When hitting a Viral with a 1000dmg weapon

On Easy / Normal
- Min x1.5 damage = 1500dmg
- Max x1.5 damage = 1500dmg

On Hard
- Min x0.8 damage = 800dmg
- Max x0.8 damage = 800dmg

On Nightmare
- Min 0.2x damage = 200dmg
- Max 0.8x damage = 800dmg

(Note on Nightmare's values; in the difficulty settings file the min and max values are reversed for a reason, but I flipped the values here as showing a min dmg that is high with a max dmg that is low would seem backward without understanding how it is handled in the game)

There are also other attribute settings that vary by weapons and weapon types that affect weapon damages even further. Additionally, a couple of the bow/crossbow blueprints also cause the produced weapon to inherit the stats of the base weapon that was used to create it instead of using the stats the produced weapon is configured with by default.
Dark Nero *=_VF_=* May 28, 2020 @ 11:37am 
In which game files have you dig this info?

Originally posted by StinVec:
On Nightmare
- Min 0.2x damage = 200dmg
- Max 0.8x damage = 800dmg

What does the damage on Nightmare depend on? How to achieve min and max values?

Originally posted by StinVec:
Additionally, a couple of the bow/crossbow blueprints also cause the produced weapon to inherit the stats of the base weapon that was used to create it instead of using the stats the produced weapon is configured with by default.

Can you give more specific details on this?
StinVec May 28, 2020 @ 11:21pm 
Those settings are located in the Data0.pak > 'data\scripts\difficultyparams.scr' file.

Each difficulty section has separate settings for some parameters from the other difficulties.
These values are located within each section for altering the damage that the player does to enemy types while on that difficulty, as well as damage done by enemies to the player.

e.g. Difficulty("Nightmare") section
PlayerDmgFactorMin()// this means how much damage GIVEN to AI will be modified (ie. player hits with 100 dmg * Biter(0.9) = will give 90 dmg to AI)
{
Biter(0.80);
Viral(1.00);
HMF(0.50);
HMF_Leader(0.50);
HumanFirearm(0.53);
HMF_Arena(0.50);
HumanFirearm_Arena(0.50);
HMF_Leader_Arena(0.7);
Goon(0.50);
Volatile(0.30);
Spitter(0.50);
Demolisher(0.50);
Demolisher_Arena(0.7);
}

PlayerDmgFactorMax()
{
Biter(0.2);
Viral(0.15);
HMF(0.1);
HMF_Leader(0.1);
HumanFirearm(0.2);
HMF_Arena(0.2);
HumanFirearm_Arena(0.2);
HMF_Leader_Arena(0.7);
Goon(0.19);
Volatile(0.2);
Spitter(0.05);
Demolisher(0.3);
Demolisher_Arena(0.35);
}

EnemiesDmgFactor()// this means how much damage TAKEN from AI will be modified (ie. Bitter hits with 10 dmg * Biter(1.5) = will give 15 dmg to PLAYER)
{
Biter(2.0);
Viral(1.5);
HMF(2.0);
HMF_Leader(2.0);
HumanFirearm(2.0);
HMF_Arena(2.0);
HumanFirearm_Arena(2.0);
HMF_Leader_Arena(2.0);
Goon(2.0);
Volatile(1.5);
Spitter(1.38);
Demolisher(2.0);
Demolisher_Arena(2.0);
}

Min being higher than max can be viewed as a 'dulling' effect being applied to the damage you do. So a high Min value means minimal dulling amount, while the low Max value would be for a maximum dulling amount. This is why I reversed the values previously, as looking at the values as they are in the file as if they represented damage Min/Max instead of the Min/Max to dull the damage would seem backward.

There is also this setting that determines what Survivor Rank these settings should apply to:
// The status level range over which PlayerDmgFactorMin and PlayerDmgFactorMax is interpolated.
PlayerDmgStatusMin(5);
PlayerDmgStatusMax(25);
This makes it so these changes will only take effect if you are between Survivor Rank 5 and 25. This prevents the early levels from being affected and made too difficult so they do not kick in until level 5 when a player has gained access to some skills and better weapons and familiarized themselves with the gameplay and environment.

As for how to try to ensure you always hit for the max damage, it is not something you can control or influence and is calculated randomly at the time of inflicting the damage. That is what the "interpolated" note above regarding deferring the Min/Max variability effect until Survivor Rank 5 references, where the game makes calculations of the variable damage to inflict at the time of contact.

_____

Regarding the stat inheriting, some blueprints have an attribute on them that signifies that the weapon that it produces will possess many of the attributes of the weapon that was used as the base item in the recipe; e.g. damage, force, etc.

This "InheritBaseStats" attribute is only present on some of the DLC, Dev and 10-in-12 weapon blueprints. For the bows and crossbows, no bows have this Inherit attribute and only a couple of the crossbows have it.

Crossbows that do have have the "InheritBaseStats" attribute are:
- Heatwave
- Gust of Wind

Which I find interesting as both of those crossbows have usual damage values defined on them in addition to usual values on other attributes.

The silenced pistols have a comment on them in the files where their damage values are configured and it says:
"//All FirePoints Damage and Force are set to 1 to always inherit stats from base weapon."

So I would expect all of these weapons that inherit base stats to have damage values of 1 in addition to their blueprints having the Inherit attribute, but they have normal damage values configured on them:

Heatwave
FirePointRange(0, 10.0);
FirePointDamage(0, 480.0);
FirePointForce(0, 100.0);
FirePointPhysicsDamage(0, 1.5);
FirePointRange(1, 25.0);
FirePointDamage(1, 480.0);
FirePointForce(1, 90.0);
FirePointPhysicsDamage(1, 1.3);
FirePointRange(2, 50.0);
FirePointDamage(2, 300.0);
FirePointForce(2, 70.0);

Gust of Wind
FirePointRange(0, 10.0);
FirePointDamage(0, 500.0);
FirePointForce(0, 90.0);
FirePointPhysicsDamage(0, 1.5);
FirePointRange(1, 25.0);
FirePointDamage(1, 250.0);
FirePointForce(1, 80.0);
FirePointPhysicsDamage(1, 1.3);
FirePointRange(2, 50.0);
FirePointDamage(2, 100.0);
FirePointForce(2, 60.0);

Just something interesting I noticed, so the defined damage and other stats probably don't matter as long as they get overwritten due to the Inherit attribute on the blueprint.
Last edited by StinVec; May 28, 2020 @ 11:25pm
Which file contains headshot multiplier and damage falloff values for crossbows?
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Date Posted: Oct 7, 2019 @ 7:13pm
Posts: 18