Similiar to Cart Life

[Ryan Dorkoski]

Does anybody feel that Papers, Please is similiar in both play mechanics and graphics to Cart Life? It is like a retail/mundane-everyday-job-management sim. In this sense I do not think Papers, Please is deserving of the high 87 MetaCritic score (and is debateable for 10$). With that being said I do not regret buying it, and have been more-or-less enjoying it. After a play session though - I have to say it feels more like work than real fun. I enjoy the storyline, but it is very repititious and work-like.

If anything, I think it is great to have access to these experimental indie games. What do you think?

[Ezralea]

I actually bought cart life soon after playing Papers Please since they seemed similar, so I'd have to agree with you on that. Also I think what's helping Papers Please in the MetaCritic score department is that only a few critics have reviewed it so far (12 to Binding of Isaac's 30) and it seems like most of those critics were following this game with some interest before it was released. Also, wasn't the Binding of Isaac made by the same guy who made Super Meat Boy? So critics also probably had bigger expectations for Binding of Isaac.

[Ryan Dorkoski]

Originally posted by happycats517:

I actually bought cart life soon after playing Papers Please since they seemed similar, so I'd have to agree with you on that. Also I think what's helping Papers Please in the MetaCritic score department is that only a few critics have reviewed it so far (12 to Binding of Isaac's 30) and it seems like most of those critics were following this game with some interest before it was released. Also, wasn't the Binding of Isaac made by the same guy who made Super Meat Boy? So critics also probably had bigger expectations for Binding of Isaac.

You have made some very good points about how MetaCritc works. Thank you for the input.

[Relnor]

Metacritic is meaningless, I still have no idea how people think a complex opinion can be equated with a number from 1 to 10, or 1 - 5 stars, or whatever other nonsense.

Nevermind the fact that Metacritic takes all those different scoring systems and gives them different "values" based on whatever arbitrary system they have.

I won't even get into how some people get paid less because their Metacritic score was a few points less than the Publisher said they have to ( imaging working on something for years and a few tosspots who just mash numbers together on their website cost you a part of your salary ) least I throw up.

The sooner the thing dies and we move onto an opinion based system the better - but heavens knows that will never happen because people have a fascination with being graded.

[Walkingshade]

Hmm just saw a trailer to cart life and found it intersting. Do you guys recommend it/ think it's worth the price?

[Walkingshade]

Trying to find a new game, i think i've done everything i could with papers, please.

[Walkingshade]

Just found out it has a freeware version, gonna try it out: http://www.richardhofmeier.com/cartlife/editions.html

[Ryan Dorkoski]

Originally posted by Walkingshade:

Hmm just saw a trailer to cart life and found it intersting. Do you guys recommend it/ think it's worth the price?

yeah Cart Life is worth it. Especially if you like Papers, Please.

[Ryan Dorkoski]

Originally posted by Relnor:

Metacritic is meaningless, I still have no idea how people think a complex opinion can be equated with a number from 1 to 10, or 1 - 5 stars, or whatever other nonsense.

Nevermind the fact that Metacritic takes all those different scoring systems and gives them different "values" based on whatever arbitrary system they have.

I won't even get into how some people get paid less because their Metacritic score was a few points less than the Publisher said they have to ( imaging working on something for years and a few tosspots who just mash numbers together on their website cost you a part of your salary ) least I throw up.

The sooner the thing dies and we move onto an opinion based system the better - but heavens knows that will never happen because people have a fascination with being graded.

Ok well I definately agree with you (same argument I have for rotten tomatoes). BUT there is obviously a correlation with decent games and MetaCritic scores. You cannot deny that. The trend of MetaCritic score and game value is there. I agree it is not the best system, but it is better than no system IMO.

[Ryan Dorkoski]

Originally posted by Relnor:

Metacritic is meaningless, I still have no idea how people think a complex opinion can be equated with a number from 1 to 10, or 1 - 5 stars, or whatever other nonsense.

Nevermind the fact that Metacritic takes all those different scoring systems and gives them different "values" based on whatever arbitrary system they have.

I won't even get into how some people get paid less because their Metacritic score was a few points less than the Publisher said they have to ( imaging working on something for years and a few tosspots who just mash numbers together on their website cost you a part of your salary ) least I throw up.

The sooner the thing dies and we move onto an opinion based system the better - but heavens knows that will never happen because people have a fascination with being graded.

Actually, because I agree with you - and I have thought about it - could you recommend a better system than MetaCritic? I always thought a weighted system would be better. I.e. in the case of Papers, Please, the score would be reported as such "87/12" which would refer to 87%, 12 reviewers... The second number would weigh in on how many critics looked at it. Of course this does not address bias, etc. It would be a step in perhaps a better direction. Food for thought.

[Atyno]

Well, taking a look at those forums. It should be important to note you should NOT buy Cart Life on steam at the very least and preferably on the website. That version has not been getting updates because the dev is afraid of incompatible saves which has caused quite a stir.

[Ryan Dorkoski]

Originally posted by Eregorn:

Well, taking a look at those forums. It should be important to note you should NOT buy Cart Life on steam at the very least and preferably on the website. That version has not been getting updates because the dev is afraid of incompatible saves which has caused quite a stir.

You should bring this up as its own topic. If I were looking at buying it, I would want to know this.

[Atyno]

You sure? A topic here just to say that would feel out of place, and it's equally pointless to post it at Cart Life's forum because the threads already exist.

[Ryan Dorkoski]

Originally posted by Eregorn:

You sure? A topic here just to say that would feel out of place, and it's equally pointless to post it at Cart Life's forum because the threads already exist.

Oh yeah you are right lol I forgot we were in Papers, Please... And I did not know that a similiar thread exists in Cart Life. My bad.

[skin2yard]

Originally posted by Relnor:

Metacritic is meaningless, I still have no idea how people think a complex opinion can be equated with a number from 1 to 10, or 1 - 5 stars, or whatever other nonsense.

Nevermind the fact that Metacritic takes all those different scoring systems and gives them different "values" based on whatever arbitrary system they have.

I won't even get into how some people get paid less because their Metacritic score was a few points less than the Publisher said they have to ( imaging working on something for years and a few tosspots who just mash numbers together on their website cost you a part of your salary ) least I throw up.

The sooner the thing dies and we move onto an opinion based system the better - but heavens knows that will never happen because people have a fascination with being graded.

when reviewers die out, emtacritic will die out, its simple.... the funniest thing i ever read, was an ign article about how bad metacritic is lol....what a joke

[Atyno]

no prob, and about the other guy's posts, I think he does not think the scoring system is something to be improved but rather something that needs to be abolished. I have a similar opinion, in that we should be following reviewers with a byline that has similar interests as our own and ACTUALLY reading/watching (depending on the review's medium) review. Not focusing on a number they threw out.

The scoring has the issue on how arbitrary it is, particular for such large scales of 1-100. What makes a game with an 88 better than an 87 scoring game? This concern, while normally nit-picky, is magnified because of the importance meta-critic has on developer pay. When the difference between a point can decide whether a dev actually makes a living or not, problems arise.

Bias is not the issue (because reviews are ultimately biased, you just line your own biases up with the reviewer in question). The issue that throws off scores is that even when scoring systems used by reviewers are defined, they are not defined the same as others. Is 5 out of 10 an average game or is it a 7.5? What if one reviewer never gives out 10s because that implies perfection while another is completely fine with that? Throw in the, excuse my lack of a better word, unprofessional environment for games journalism where giving contrarian reviews is a great way to make money and the issues become clear.

He also admits the futility in removing it. Personally, I see two issues: One is that, as you said, it's simply convenient to have an average of a whole bunch of reviews (or a scale in general) to decide on a game's worth. The second, which the first stems from, is that we want to attach objectivity to something subjective. Sure, somethings are going to objective in video games in particular (how buggy the game is and how well done the options menu is), but a lot of things are still subjective. But we still want to say "x is better than y" due to our instincts and review scores are one of the methods to do that. As long as those two still stand, people will still pay attention to metacritic.