Frustrated with map bosses

[Chebz]

So I play a summoner lvl 74 atm (followed some recommended online build). Capped resists, 2.3k hp and around 1.5k es. I am getting 1-2 shotted by some bosses in 66-67 maps. Is this normal? I clear through trash no problem, but bosses seem to have very uneven difficulty spike. Often killing me before I even notice them jump on screen (and they are fast too!). My health just goes "pop" and I am dead. I want to do 70+ maps but at this rate I see no point... I mean where's the fun in that?

[JHS_]

It might help if you actually told what maps/bosses are giving you hard time... But I try to read your mind and give some basic tips.

I'm assuming you are glass canon... So its probably physical damage thats causing problems. So apart from getting more armor/evasion which may be hard for some builds:

- Try the usual CWDT - enduring cry - immortal call combo or arctic armor (but mana heavy on high levels). Both will be nerfed in next expansion though.
- Well then theres good old granite flask but it doesnt work automatically.
- If you actually using summons just let them nuke the boss while staying almost offscreen.
- If you can't see screen properly keep moving so some random leap slammers can't jump top of you.
- Positioning yourself properly based on map/build is good idea anyways.
- Also the maps are pretty much the same so you should learn the boss locations pretty quick.

These also work against many elemental bosses. Ofc against elemental spell spammers you could use elemental flask instead of granite and maybe some good spell block shield but don't think they should be problem on 66-67 maps. Chaos damage maybe but not elemental.

I'd say it's more like trash is too easy, than that bosses are too hard that's causing the "difficulty spike". Steamrolling too easily makes you lose focus.

[jbridso]

Some of the map bosses are basically like WoW raid fights where you need to do specific things or specific builds to kill them. They also have huge difficulty spikes relative to each other... some are weenies that you roll over and don't even realize you killed, while others just one shot you... just the way it is.

Most players just clear the map and skip the bosses which are difficult/impossible for their particular defenses/build to handle.

I kinda wish they'd rebalance a few of them to be a bit more forgiving, they are a bit too binary atm.

[Chebz]

Messaggio originale di JHS_:

It might help if you actually told what maps/bosses are giving you hard time... But I try to read your mind and give some basic tips.

I'm assuming you are glass canon... So its probably physical damage thats causing problems. So apart from getting more armor/evasion which may be hard for some builds:

- Try the usual CWDT - enduring cry - immortal call combo or arctic armor (but mana heavy on high levels). Both will be nerfed in next expansion though.
- Well then theres good old granite flask but it doesnt work automatically.
- If you actually using summons just let them nuke the boss while staying almost offscreen.
- If you can't see screen properly keep moving so some random leap slammers can't jump top of you.
- Positioning yourself properly based on map/build is good idea anyways.
- Also the maps are pretty much the same so you should learn the boss locations pretty quick.

These also work against many elemental bosses. Ofc against elemental spell spammers you could use elemental flask instead of granite and maybe some good spell block shield but don't think they should be problem on 66-67 maps. Chaos damage maybe but not elemental.

I'd say it's more like trash is too easy, than that bosses are too hard that's causing the "difficulty spike". Steamrolling too easily makes you lose focus.

I don't know which ones. One shoots like rain of arrows thing and another is a melee guy with spikes comming out of ground (I've had a room with two of these once - map mod, it was a disaster). They kill my 5k hp zombies in seconds too. And indeed I am steamrolling through the rest of the map.

Granite flask is only 4 seconds. I can't imagine it saving my life. (once all my minions are gone, I am essentially a sitting duck).

Chaos damage isn't really an issue, its annoying at most but I almost never die to it.

I guess what I am not happy about is that I never even get a chance to do anything. Like clearing whole map on easy mode, relaxing, listening to some music, and then BAM I am dead. Wtf happened?? Oh it's a boss.... goodbye xp.

If the mobs were harder it would at least make sense, and I would probably only do maps in groups. But as it stands right now some maps are a complete joke, I often don't even notice that my zombies killed a boss. Others are a complete WTF. I guess some balance would be nice.

[whiteb]

Messaggio originale di Chebz:

So I play a summoner lvl 74 atm (followed some recommended online build). Capped resists, 2.3k hp and around 1.5k es. I am getting 1-2 shotted by some bosses in 66-67 maps. Is this normal? I clear through trash no problem, but bosses seem to have very uneven difficulty spike. Often killing me before I even notice them jump on screen (and they are fast too!). My health just goes "pop" and I am dead. I want to do 70+ maps but at this rate I see no point... I mean where's the fun in that?

Oh, wait until you get to 75/76's :)

Something is not right if you are one shotted especially by 66 bosses at 74. 2300hp at 74 is too low. I think I had at least 3500 at that stage (have 5100 now at 91). If its a rain of arrows or ground slam attacks, those sound like Rogue Exiles, not map bosses.

[tviktor]

2,3k hp is nothing. You should have double that.

EDIT: Sorry, missed the ES part. I'm tired. Still, a bit low. :) What other defenses do you have? Using flasks is very important in the end-game, and movement and positioning is vital. In the beta the desync is gone so it's even more vital! Try using debuffs and defensive curses, and try the CWDT combo-wombo, since I'm guessing physical damage hurts you the most.

[Matthew]

He is talking about 66 dungeon, which is notorious newb killer map. The rain of arrows map sounds like the corrupted zone one, which is pretty killer on a summoner.

Anywho, for better or worse maps are kind of designed for you to be overpowered. For example if you are just scraping by on Graveyard map, boss is going to own you. You need to be massively overpowered for the map to have an okay chance at the boss.

Another example is Jungle Valley. If you don't have massive AoE damage or decent AoE damage with good life leech, there is no reason to try it.

It kind of sucks the layout is like this and I think there may be some restructuring of maps for A4, but that is how it is. Learn which maps have the cheap difficulty spikes and only do them if you are overpowered for that map, or just avoid.

[Altaria]

Messaggio originale di Matthew:

He is talking about 66 dungeon, which is notorious newb killer map. The rain of arrows map sounds like the corrupted zone one, which is pretty killer on a summoner.

Anywho, for better or worse maps are kind of designed for you to be overpowered. For example if you are just scraping by on Graveyard map, boss is going to own you. You need to be massively overpowered for the map to have an okay chance at the boss.

Another example is Jungle Valley. If you don't have massive AoE damage or decent AoE damage with good life leech, there is no reason to try it.

It kind of sucks the layout is like this and I think there may be some restructuring of maps for A4, but that is how it is. Learn which maps have the cheap difficulty spikes and only do them if you are overpowered for that map, or just avoid.

Not really restructuring of map bosses is them being harder than now according to the posts in reddit from beta testers.

[tviktor]

Messaggio originale di Azurewrathe:

Not really restructuring of map bosses is them being harder than now according to the posts in reddit from beta testers.

I think the existing bosses are easier actually. Sure, everything hits harder and have more life in the beta but it's easier to dodge and use movement skills without fear of desync. The fights are a lot more fun because of this, imho!

[jbridso]

The problem is the sheer amount of damage they output... you go from 3k+ health to dead in the blink of an eye. You simply have no time to react, nor can you possibly have the defensive stats at the time you run into them.

One shot World of Warcraft style "Raid" mechanics should not be in this style of game, especially with hardcore modes. Sure they should be punishing, but not nearly as deadly as they currently are, especially in beginner maps. ie) Orchard Boss

Simply put: It's no fun to be instakilled from something offscreen and it really hurts the game.

[Elwind]

I would like you to point me to those bosses.I literraly have one 90+ summoner and he is too powerfull it isnt funny :)

Tell me exactly the bosses you were having trouble,and what you really did.Did you try staying on his face?Did you know its mechanics and just stood there?

Or is it you didnt know how to handle its situation?See,there are bosses that are punishing when you dont know what they are doing.

And anyways,Vaal Summon skeletons is the "i win button" of summoners,you press it and if you die then there is something wrong on what you would call protection,since screen is filled to the brim with 60+ minion

[jbridso]

The best example is the Orchard Boss.... level 66 starting map.

It flings AoE projectiles that hit for I'd guess about 4k physical damage, which is an outright oneshot. Thus, the attack must either be dodged, absorbed by minions, or mitigated with % physical resistance.

As a summoner you just happen to be somewhat better equipped to handle this boss because you can simply spam skeletons to absorb most of the hits... occasionally though the projectile will be evaded by the minions and it can oneshot you. It's basically a matter of time before this happens and you die.

As a melee you're entirely screwed, unless you happen to have immortal call... you simply cannot reliably dodge the oneshotty attack, even with a 95% evasion you will eventually take a hit and instantly die. Maybe once desync is fixed and you can leap/whirling blades through him reliably it may be a different story.

As a ranged you're stuck constantly moving to dodge the attacks, the moment you stop to attack there is a chance that you will be struck/instantly killed.

The problem with the encounter is that the attack is a flat out insta-kill attack for most players who are just starting maps. No matter what build you play there is a chance that you will be hit.
You will eventually get hung up on something, blocked by a stray mob in the room, etc.

Simply put: It's too punishing of an attack and the game controls are not reliable enough to handle binary instant death attacks. If people are just outright skipping beginner bosses because they don't want to die repeatedly... there is an issue.

Of course I know how to easily dispatch this boss: just port around with blink arrow and let the clones do all the work but that's a very niche build and again minions.

[The_Driver]

Messaggio originale di jbridso:

The best example is the Orchard Boss.... level 66 starting map.

Some bosses are scarier/more dangerous than other bosses... orchard one is one of them. In most cases you don't need to kill them, just skip them.

[jbridso]

Messaggio originale di The_Driver:

Messaggio originale di jbridso:

The best example is the Orchard Boss.... level 66 starting map.

Some bosses are scarier/more dangerous than other bosses... orchard one is one of them. In most cases you don't need to kill them, just skip them.

My point is that if a boss is sooo difficult that most players feel the need to skip it... Then maybe it needs to be smacked with the nerfbat?

[Matthew]

I think the point was more of this:

Messaggio originale di jbridso:

If people are just outright skipping beginner bosses because they don't want to die repeatedly... there is an issue.

There is a minor counter-point about path of least resistance, that players are going to naturally avoid the harder maps regardless. Still, the difficulty spikes of certain encounters is off enough that it is only doing harm to the overall system. Players should be encouraged to attempt challenging content, not just avoid it. At the very least, boss stats should mimic the relative map difficulty (e.g., Graveyard boss most definitely does far more damage than 70 maps, or even up to 75 maps even with sapphire flasks. 75 Necropolis is easier.)

I guess maybe the enhanced boss drop change will help. Also, a lot of these discussion is outdated with lockstep. If you can reliably dodge dungeon boss ground slam, or see that your character is clearly out of the way when orchard boss is attacking in a certain direction, the overall difficulty changes.

[Matthew]

As a counter example of what I think it a difficult fight for a lot of players, but still rewarding is something like torture chamber. The beam throws off new players, of course, but overall it is an encounter I think is challenging but isn't so 1-hit RIP. It is one of the harder map bosses, but I don't feel the need to skip it at all.