Why does the Passive Skill Tree Suck so much?(Discussion Supreme)

[lonE skuM]

Hi guys,
(First of all, why am i making this thread? How can people be OK with this mechanic? How have devs not fixed this pain ? )
I started playing PoE when it was alpha i think? im not even sure anymore, but anyways, i played it for some time and just started about a week back.

I Noticed many changes and additions which is great stuff, and been seeing a lot of activity around PoE, which is good as well.

But the Passive Skill tree still works in the same flawed, inefficient way as it always has.
The skill tree is like this huge place for you to explore and try out different builds, different combinations etc,...............

BUT WAIT!
You can't !

Because if you are a person who's new to the game, you play play, yes, reached lv 10, great stuff. You spend the skill points on the closest stuff you like, stuff which gives you something good right now.(BELIEVE ME, nobody is gonna be pro at this tree day 1).
After a few days, you reach level 30, great pies, mmhmm tastes good. Stuff is pretty handy-dandy. Oh wow you finish the game on normal mode? wow grats, the boss was pretty fun, wasn't it? yeah, feeling like you got a good tree growin'? oh yeah that's great.

Oooh looky, Cruel mode !!! wow this is gonna be challenging, lets go into it. Ok, aced act 1 and 2, pretty fast with groups, and portals.... portals everywhere :V. Oh look its Act 3. Let's go farm.

OH LOOK YOU KEEP DYING, AND YOU DIE, AND ALL YOUR EXP THAT YOU SOMEHOW GOT, IS GONE TOO hUEHUe!!

Play in a group all the time, you say? A Player should not be "forced"/"suggested" to play the game in a certain way that he/she does not please.

SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY PUT THE DAMN TALENT POINTS IN THE WRONG PLACE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GUYSS!!! PLEASEEEEEEE

WHY DO WE HAVE TO ROLL A NEW CHARACTER JUST BECAUSE A MISTAKE WAS MADE AT LEVEL 3 and took the wrong turn,lel

You make us disconnect from our first characters, by making them unplayable, because a new enthusiastic guy felt like spending a point on chaos inoculation, because it sounded cool and intimidating.. or that Blood magic ? I bet RIGHT NOW, as we type and read, there are Thousands of high level characters Just lying there like a dead horse.I Personally stopped playing because i turned my guy's HP to 1 and didnt wanna reroll again, INVOLUNTARILY..... :''''''''''''(. Now there aren't enough passive reset stones available with EQUAL Value of time Spent/ Wasted in Skill reset points. YOU MIGHT NOT GET ENOUGH IN IN A MONTH ! and What now? We have to farm for days just to FIX A MIS-CLICK? No est mucho fairo :(((((.....


PLEASE GUYS :

either try a system that allows you to RESET the tree AT LEAST every month or so. Like this, if you make a mistake, AT LEAST YOUR CHARACTER ISN'T GONE FOREVER, and can be Fixed in some time...

Or, Allow us to buy a FULL TREE RESET, For a NOT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥LY IMPOSSIBLE TO FARM ITEM :D form a new vendor. YOU CAN ALSO ADD ----- A QUEST ----- which introduces the NEW NPC :D:D:D:D:D. how bout it ?



AND ONCE AGAIN, PLEASE DO NOT ACT LIKE THOSE WANNA BE TOUGH GUYS WHO SAY THIS IS GOOD AND IS A FUN INCREASE IN DIFFICULTY. BECAUSE ALL IT IS, IS AN UNWANTED DETAIL in a player's game life. Something they want to be gone every second. and IF you want it so bad, Why Don't
They
just
MAKE IT OPTIONAL TO Have a character with reset available or one without.

anywhoooo, lemme know your thoughts :D.

[skivverus]

Respecialization is difficult for a number of reasons; one of them is to encourage rerolling, which is I would argue necessary to encourage veteran players to party up with newbies and thus - maybe - show them the ropes before they hit "endgame" and "should know better".
Another is that it allows the same enemies and areas to feel fresher on multiple playthroughs - when you are forced to use different skills and tactics due to having different stats (rather than getting stuck in the "optimal" rut).

You may also be underestimating the effects of gear, gem choice, and player skill on the viability of your character; there are remarkably few passive combinations that fail to work together *and* fail to be obvious about it.

[Libertea's nuts]

So if I get this right you're unhappy because you spent one point in chaos inoculation and you don't have enough energy shield to stay alive? And you don't have enough currency to buy an orb of regret from the vendor?

I understand the frustration somewhat as my first character is so weak it's not even funny, but then I started a new one in the domination league when it launched and guess what, it's leaps and bounds better.

Try not spending points randomly if you get riled up like that. By the way there should be a passive point reset with the upcoming march 5 patch so your wish will be granted.

[brooklyncontrivance]

It's plenty easy to respec 10 or 20 nodes over the course of a character's development, and not much harder to do more than that. 1 orb of regret = 2 orbs of scouring = 8 orbs of chance = 8 orbs of fusing = 32 chromatic orbs = 192 orbs of alteration. Just by playing the game you ought to find enough of those currency items in combination to afford an orb of regret rather frequently.

Small mistakes in your build are easy to fix; re-rolling is for when you realize you made such a huge mess of what you should have taken that the time spent levelling the new character is less than the time spent gathering materials to respec the old one.

[brooklyncontrivance]

Also, get familiar with http://poebuilder.com and you'll find it's easy to plan out a build in advance. Trying to make it optimal may not be so easy, but coming up with a game plan before spending points really helps a lot.

[The_Driver]

I think the real reason for the confusion is the very subtle way to tell the player how a respec is done. You get a very small amount of skill point resets for (side)quests. Now, if you think about his, you'll probably think that at level 10 your 3 (or whatever low number) reset points are not that much and you should therefore conclude that it's not trivial to do a complete respec. Yet, at that point, you still have the opportunity to respec that char with the normal+cruel respec points, so it's not that bad at the moment if you then start to plan ahead.

[Reev1n]

Also rerolling in this game is pretty much a learning experience, when you cant progress anymore with a character you should look at what you did wrong with the character and then see how you can possibly fix it. If you cant fix that character, then try and make a better version of the one you already made.

The feeling you get when you finally get your character to smoothly progress through content is amazing.

[Lucky Thirteen]

As it is now, my only objection against the current Skill Tree is that it just feels kind of unbalanced. Some classes have all the awesome talents perfectly within their reach, while other classes have to take tons of those pesky "+10 to stat X" nodes to get to something useful.

Kinda negates GGG's enthusiastic "unlimited customization!" statement

[lonE skuM]

Guys, i see your views and opinions, but the end result is this =>

You make a mistake on the passive tree, realize it later, and then you have two options. Gather enough orbs, to respec your points. or reroll a character completely, because it is mostly faster. Do you understand what happens here? Players are given the option of Wasting equevelant time of levelling a character form 1-50, on the only other option of respeccing(books dont count, since limited) being collecting around 60ish orbs to respec.

And then comes the topic of It encouraging -REROLLING-.

I understand how you would see it like it.
but again. There has to be a bigger reason to reroll a character than to say "i messed up on my tree, but i'll just drop this character, who's a waste now, and reroll one IN PLACE OF HIM, not as an ADDITIONAL character, but as a REPLACEMENT. So, you just wasted time levelling a character. then waste time again leveling a new charcter to get to the same place as the old, only not with the same tree.

There are neough reasons for rerolling a new class.
new skill start spot
new Hero
new affinities( i think)
and maybe some other stuff idk about.

the current one only makes you trash your current guy and get the same guy without the tree and levels and every earned thing.

So the whole process of resetting a skill point involves you either grinding your ass or killing it and planting a new one ;v.

I do not enjoy this "forced Replayability", if you may say so.

Look, just because it's not worse, doesn't mean its good. I will probably stop playing myself, because im not someone who will just reroll a character because a game doesnt have the facilitation of a less time consuming if at all time consuming process on simply respeccing my points. ITS REAL LIFE TIME, GUYS! i dont wanna spend dozens of hours just to reset my TALENT TREE!. I COULD HAVE EXPLORED SO MUCH MORE, instead im in some dark cave looking for an orb to drop for millenia. Its A WASTE OF TIME. Thats all, people can Sugar coat it, but its WORSE than it is ' GOOD ' :\..

Hey, i ain't losin' nuttin, guys. If i get too mad at a game, i'll just stop playing. Simply Because of a system that can irreperably damage a character into oblivion and people are cool with it because they got used to living under it.

[lonE skuM]

AGrumpyBunny a écrit :

Also rerolling in this game is pretty much a learning experience, when you cant progress anymore with a character you should look at what you did wrong with the character and then see how you can possibly fix it. If you cant fix that character, then try and make a better version of the one you already made.

The feeling you get when you finally get your character to smoothly progress through content is amazing.

Yeah, but you can do all of that, and just buy a full talent reset, and NOT HAVE TO LOSE YOUR CHARACTER.

And you can make a better version of the one you have , by fixing his tree. I dont know how the process of deleting one character, and getting to the same stage with the other seems like a learning experience.

The learning experience ends for me at " oh i realize i spent my points poorly, i will be more careful now" . The deleting then rerolling part has nothing to do with it :\......

[lonE skuM]

on another side note:

If there are already so many handy tools/softwares outside POE, to see and measure your Passive points, AREN'T YOU GOING AGAINST THE WHOLE IDEA YOU PROTECT????? To let the rerolling be the learning experience. Instead of " oh this tree i made sucks, i should reset my points and fix my mistakes", right now its like " Oh i made this sucky tree, now ill just delete this guy, reach the same spot, and then downoad a software that lets me weigh out my choices outside the game without it impacting me this time. So instead of fixing the mistakes, you are just wiping the slate, and Cheating from under the desk, by making mistakes on the SOFTWARE, again and again, JUST NOT HAVING TO REROLL THIS TIME but instead, applying the ';perfect;' mix after dozens of try by doing it on the tool first.. ( which would have been rerolls each time. Had they been ingame).
Makes sense...

Is this what iv'e been debating against this whole time ?

I DONT GET THIS LOGIC. sorry if this is offensive in any way, but i dont know why someone would take offence over this topic anyway :P.

[The_Driver]

allionus a écrit :

I DONT GET THIS LOGIC. sorry if this is offensive in any way, but i dont know why someone would take offence over this topic anyway :P.

Two main reasons in my understanding:
- The game is kind of oldschool in that regard... you know, better times (the way to your goal is as important as the goal itself - mentallity. Like how in shooters self-healing leads to not caring about being hit a few times because you don't have a scarcity of health-pickups, you're just as likely to survive later in that level)
- The game is competative in leagues, an easy respect option leads to using a leveling-build and an endgame-build, which gives an advantage over users who don't use it, effectively forcing you to do it

[lonE skuM]

but the contrast here is not of auto healing and not healing. Its about not healing and getting killed from jumping 1 foot, and having to wait 5 minutes for respawn. .

You know what i can do to smack competetiveness?
Guides, ♥♥♥♥♥♥ guides everywhere, softwares, videos. I can kill with all of this. Instead of what

you think people do : ' failing first, then learning again by rolling a new guy and being more careful'
. But, most people just open a website, check points there, watched videos, looks good? ok applied in game, no more dying. eat ♥♥♥♥ system.
Only the people who don't wanna do this (like myself) and wanna try skills out by themselves and learn the tree as i go (ON THE SAME CHARACTER) will get entirely ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Not every Shaking rope on a bridge should be seen as a challenge. some will take the bridge down with them, lel. i just came up with that... its so cool.

[lonE skuM]

such hearts wow. ♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥. much hearts :3. wow ♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥

[sieggy]

this game requires abit of research yes i know why you unhappy with it i didnt really get into it during my first playthrough and took a friend to get me back in it but i learn abit form my first mistakes so if you dont like it now i suggest takeing a break and if you come back you might fair better

[lonE skuM]

Can we just please make this clear ?

" this system has nothing to do with promoting 'rerolling' ".

its an indirect force reroll. reroll or suffer. that's the two options.