Life Leech unplayable now || nerfed too much

[Baumi]

Hi.

I feel like they destroyed leech builds. I can't even play my RF build anymore since they nerfed the leech on all items as well (used to have at least 3% elemental leech from gear). The leech basically prevented me from investing into more life regen since I could just leech to balance the damage out. My claw leech build is also unplayable - no more survivability. I mean, they basically cut my healing by approx. 80%. Like WTF?! I hope they reverse this. It's such bullcrap when I die to enemies/bosses which I could do solo before.
Atziri? Well, ♥♥♥♥ that now. Can't run her, either.

Anyone else having issues? Let me know in the comments.

[SpooHaHa]

The Wandering Mania eredeti hozzászólása:

Well I have the proof that the new "leach system" is broken. If you do the math on my incinrate spell I should be able to leach 1/3 of my total health every cast and close to 3X my health every second. But the new leach system is 100% broken and my char can still easly die. The picture shows it all.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484730307

On that image, isn't the 30% the rate, meaning how much of the leeched amount is applied to your globe each second? In other words, the 30% means it 'ticks' to heal you for 30% more.

I think your stat screen seems to show you only actually have a 2% conversion of damage to Leech, if I am reading it correctly.

[Apocalypse]

Kuki eredeti hozzászólása:

I feel like the D2 skills were more creative and versatile, in PoE it is all just about stacking up DMG multipliers. D2 of course had horrible balancing making many early skills useless later on, but thats an entirely different story. The skills themselves were still more interesting. What also bothers me is that many many many skills in PoE are essentially the same, just varying in elemental type, weapon type, etc

I am not yet in brutal, so I can not really comment on PoE, but at least they fixed the low skill issues in one of the later patches of diablo 2 when they introduced synergies in the skill tree which allowed upper tiers to boost lower tier skills. Was a nice change and allowed for complettely new builds.

Besides that, I have to agree that diablo 2 skill trees felt more variable, at the same time to skills itself with the skill synergies from main skill + support gems is really nice and allows so far for quite the variation.

As well I can not agree on the claim that single target spells are useless, act 4 bosses like to force you to move, so every bit of extra dps on them is nice to have. Though maybe single target spells are lacking in enough extra damage, that might be possible.

[Apocalypse]

The Wandering Mania eredeti hozzászólása:

Well I have the proof that the new "leach system" is broken. If you do the math on my incinrate spell I should be able to leach 1/3 of my total health every cast and close to 3X my health every second. But the new leach system is 100% broken and my char can still easly die. The picture shows it all.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484730307

Not a expert on poe mechanics, but should you not leech just ~400 hp per second at best?

edit:
And your spell is only doing enough damage to leech 200 hp per second anyway. (2% of the damage is leeched, with 9k dps that is not very much, but I guess once it is stacked up you should be able to reach your leech/s cap.

But feel free to correct me, I just read a few wiki pages on the mechanic and I am for sure not sure to remember anything of that correct.

[Wandering Mania]

Apocalypse eredeti hozzászólása:

The Wandering Mania eredeti hozzászólása:

Well I have the proof that the new "leach system" is broken. If you do the math on my incinrate spell I should be able to leach 1/3 of my total health every cast and close to 3X my health every second. But the new leach system is 100% broken and my char can still easly die. The picture shows it all.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484730307

Not a expert on poe mechanics, but should you not leech just ~400 hp per second at best?

edit:
And your spell is only doing enough damage to leech 200 hp per second anyway. (2% of the damage is leeched, with 9k dps that is not very much, but I guess once it is stacked up you should be able to reach your leech/s cap.

But feel free to correct me, I just read a few wiki pages on the mechanic and I am for sure not sure to remember anything of that correct.

If you know how incinrate works. The spell ticks that "Adds 100% more damage for each stage" the longer it's "held" so, it goes at start of cast 8,996 is the damg output, for stage 2 it is dubbled, at stage 3 it is trippeled.
My total leach from the "Life Leach" gem and enchants is 2.2% of the damage. At stage 3 of the cast I would suposedly leach arround 500hp each cast. It casts 8.85 times a second which is just under 3X my total health.

[Apocalypse]

Why do you assume that your cap per second is 3x your health?
Should your cap not be about 30% of your health?

[Wandering Mania]

Apocalypse eredeti hozzászólása:

Why do you assume that your cap per second is 3x your health?
Should your cap not be about 30% of your health?

I assume nothing, the numbers tell me. 500hp leached is about 1/3 of my health. 8.85 casts a second, 500hp leached per cast, that is 3X my health leached per second when targets are hit.

The only ones that CAN with stand that amount is damage (without being one shoted) is rare/unique mobs and bosses.

On a side note leach dose work with "Vaal Pact" but with out it, it is broken.

[Wandering Mania]

Okay here is the numbers with a "fersh" look at the stats.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=485075276
My incinrate should be doing at least this amount of leach.

Stage one / Starting cast: It dose 9,814 dmg with 215.9hp leach
Stage 2: 19,628 dmg with 431.8 leach
Stage 3: 29,642 dmg with 654.3 leach

That is with 2.2% leach. 2% with the Life Leach gem and 0.2% from fire damge. In total every second I heal 3X my total health but it dose not happen.
The new system is a failure, it don't work with out "Vaal Pact" and then that only works with small bursts that are too sporadic and unrelieable.

[jacobvandy]

The Wandering Mania eredeti hozzászólása:

Okay here is the numbers with a "fersh" look at the stats.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=485075276
My incinrate should be doing at least this amount of leach.

Stage one / Starting cast: It dose 9,814 dmg with 215.9hp leach
Stage 2: 19,628 dmg with 431.8 leach
Stage 3: 29,642 dmg with 654.3 leach

That is with 2.2% leach. 2% with the Life Leach gem and 0.2% from fire damge. In total every second I heal 3X my total health but it dose not happen.
The new system is a failure, it don't work with out "Vaal Pact" and then that only works with small bursts that are too sporadic and unrelieable.

Someone already mentioned this, but there is a cap on how much you leech per second.... It is equal to 20% of your maximum life at base, but can be increased slightly with a few passive nodes or other rare item affixes. It doesn't matter how much leech or damage you stack on that skill, you will never ever be sucking 3x your HP per second.

Look here for developer explanation of how life leech was changed with patch 2.0: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/3a0818/cb_vitality_void_leech_cluster/cs99982

[Wandering Mania]

jacobvandy eredeti hozzászólása:

Someone already mentioned this, but there is a cap on how much you leech per second.... It is equal to 20% of your maximum life at base, but can be increased slightly with a few passive nodes or other rare item affixes. It doesn't matter how much leech or damage you stack on that skill, you will never ever be sucking 3x your HP per second.

Look here for developer explanation of how life leech was changed with patch 2.0: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/3a0818/cb_vitality_void_leech_cluster/cs99982

Well first I must thank you for helping me prove my point. As you can see in the pic my "Leach Rate" is 32%. But against mutiple "ranged" enemy types evan when I hit them all I can still die easly (in Merc difficulty only) because the "Leach effect" mentioned in that post dose not work as intended at all. Without the "Vaal Pact" there is no leach and/or it is so slow that it has no use at all. And at that point you might as well stack "Life Regen" and DPS with Armor.

[Apocalypse]

The Wandering Mania eredeti hozzászólása:

Apocalypse eredeti hozzászólása:

Why do you assume that your cap per second is 3x your health?
Should your cap not be about 30% of your health?

I assume nothing, the numbers tell me. 500hp leached is about 1/3 of my health. 8.85 casts a second, 500hp leached per cast, that is 3X my health leached per second when targets are hit.

The only ones that CAN with stand that amount is damage (without being one shoted) is rare/unique mobs and bosses.

On a side note leach dose work with "Vaal Pact" but with out it, it is broken.

And I say it again, there is cap on life leech. You can not leech 500 hp per hit for 8.85 times per second when your CAP is around 400 HP PER SECOND. If you want to leech 500 hp per hit for 8.85 times per second than you got to increase either your cap rate or your hp. Once you have 15,000 hp you can actually leech 500 hp per second. ;-)

The point is you don´t understand the cap rate. You are not supposed to leech 30% of your damage (I guess that is what you are implying 30% leech-rate should do, which simply is not the case)
The mechanics seem to working as intended, even when maybe the tuning is off. A glass cannon is not supposed to leech much. Basically your point seems to be that the mechanics don´t work as you assumed they would, while they actually work exactly like the devs posted on reddit.

What is interesting is that you state that vaal pact makes leech working as you thought it should work. Guess I should look more into the function of that, as stated, I am new to the game and I did not figure at completely the workings of the leech formulas so far. Something did not click with me, as I am not 100% sure what factors impact the max cap rate. If Vaal Pact would remove the max cap rate than it would be a must have for any leech build.

[Wandering Mania]

Apocalypse eredeti hozzászólása:

The Wandering Mania eredeti hozzászólása:

I assume nothing, the numbers tell me. 500hp leached is about 1/3 of my health. 8.85 casts a second, 500hp leached per cast, that is 3X my health leached per second when targets are hit.

The only ones that CAN with stand that amount is damage (without being one shoted) is rare/unique mobs and bosses.

On a side note leach dose work with "Vaal Pact" but with out it, it is broken.

And I say it again, there is cap on life leech. You can not leech 500 hp per hit for 8.85 times per second when your CAP is around 400 HP PER SECOND. If you want to leech 500 hp per hit for 8.85 times per second than you got to increase either your cap rate or your hp. Once you have 15,000 hp you can actually leech 500 hp per second. ;-)

The point is you don´t understand the cap rate. You are not supposed to leech 30% of your damage (I guess that is what you are implying 30% leech-rate should do, which simply is not the case)
The mechanics seem to working as intended, even when maybe the tuning is off. A glass cannon is not supposed to leech much. Basically your point seems to be that the mechanics don´t work as you assumed they would, while they actually work exactly like the devs posted on reddit.

What is interesting is that you state that vaal pact makes leech working as you thought it should work. Guess I should look more into the function of that, as stated, I am new to the game and I did not figure at completely the workings of the leech formulas so far. Something did not click with me, as I am not 100% sure what factors impact the max cap rate. If Vaal Pact would remove the max cap rate than it would be a must have for any leech build.

Well my point being that it acts more like a "weak hp potion" than an actual leach. "Reserving" health as it heals slowly, but the rate that is healed is so slow that (with the amount of dmg that any thing in A4 merc difficulty) it can never keep you alive long enough with out HP pots as well. And to that you might as well save the pasive points/ sockets for more usefull things, armor, HP, ES, dmg.

Edit: To adderss the mention and subject of the reddit notes. They went from one extreme to the other. As before it only leached from one enemy but "to much", now it can leach from all hit enemies but with a cap so it is not enough. They need to find a "mid-ground" that is surviveable.
Also my char is not really a "glass cannon" as you call it. If you look at my defence tab you would see. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=485326505

[Apocalypse]

I see 1400hp, 400 es, a huge resistance hole on cold and chaos, and a lot of one-shots to come even in brutal act 4.

If that is not a glass-cannon than what is? I mean a glass-cannon needs to be at least functional, which suggest surviving to actually dealing the damage. Which you should indeed do fine outside of act 4.

[Wandering Mania]

Apocalypse eredeti hozzászólása:

I see 1400hp, 400 es, a huge resistance hole on cold and chaos, and a lot of one-shots to come even in brutal act 4.

If that is not a glass-cannon than what is? I mean a glass-cannon needs to be at least functional, which suggest surviving to actually dealing the damage. Which you should indeed do fine outside of act 4.

I do fine in in A4 on merc. I just have to take it slow. But then again so dose every one as the number one thing said about fighting Melestochi uhem Malachi in both cruel and merc is "to get your level first". Not to mention fighting Piety the Abomnation. Every one dies to them A LOT. But my 5 deaths in norm and only 15 deaths in cruel are far fewer than most. I still see people begging for help with Dom and Piety (A3) and I can not die to either of them in any diffaculty.

[Apocalypse]

Glad to hear, should reach act 4 merc today, will be interesting, I only have 2k hp, had 1400 on brutal and died ... well 4-5 times I think. maybe a little more, I lost about 20-25% of my xp bar on piety and malachai and there should have been at least some xp in the harvest too *grin'

For me that is a clear sign of either screwing up to often and being glass cannon. Far to many hits nearly oneshot even on brut with that amount of hp. But maybe I should have used some other ring to cap my fire resists instead of keeping damage rings *shrougs'

Anyway, I did not wanted to imply that your build is unfunctional, just not very tanky, which limits your ability to leech as well. And that is working as intended.

[Wandering Mania]

Apocalypse eredeti hozzászólása:

Glad to hear, should reach act 4 merc today, will be interesting, I only have 2k hp, had 1400 on brutal and died ... well 4-5 times I think. maybe a little more, I lost about 20-25% of my xp bar on piety and malachai and there should have been at least some xp in the harvest too *grin'

For me that is a clear sign of either screwing up to often and being glass cannon. Far to many hits nearly oneshot even on brut with that amount of hp. But maybe I should have used some other ring to cap my fire resists instead of keeping damage rings *shrougs'

Anyway, I did not wanted to imply that your build is unfunctional, just not very tanky, which limits your ability to leech as well. And that is working as intended.

Well you have not played very long as I remember you saying some where (hence why you call "Crule" diffaculty, brutal) but when you have played this game from before Sacrifice of Vaal before all "expantions" came out. You would know that the new A4 is just a "troll" from GGG who loves to troll the players. It is excessively diffacult for one reason alone, the prior "bosses" where (and are still) a running joke to most players. Dom and Piety started out as easy as hell to kill and as stupid in AI to boot. People could farm them and get lots of good things and never die once. Then they where buffed and made "smarter" and "harder" and still never all that diffacult to fight. So in came A4 and "Piety the Abomnation" and "Malachi" who (no matter what your tank) could one shot you. The best advice to kill Malachi of Merc is to get what ever level you are working on first then throw yourself at him over and over again. Because you will die a lot, every one dose.