Lucky/Unlucky...basically Advantage/Disadvantage?

[Izzydedyet]

From what I gathered from the internet, the lucky/unlucky mechanic in the game works basically the same as advantage/disadvantage rolls in 5E...I'm curious though, for the Lightning Mastery skill "Lightning Dmg w/Non-Crit is Lucky"...does that mean the regular damage is still on the higher end of the spectrum as per "lucky", or does that mean it basically "re-rolls" to determine whether or not it's a crit?

[DaTank]

From my understanding the “Lucky” is a roll of x amount of times taking the highest roll or best result of the rolls.

So unlucky would be the worst result and lucky would be the best

[Sidian]

Originally posted by Izzydedyet:

From what I gathered from the internet, the lucky/unlucky mechanic in the game works basically the same as advantage/disadvantage rolls in 5E...

Yes.

Originally posted by Izzydedyet:

I'm curious though, for the Lightning Mastery skill "Lightning Dmg w/Non-Crit is Lucky"...does that mean the regular damage is still on the higher end of the spectrum as per "lucky", or does that mean it basically "re-rolls" to determine whether or not it's a crit?

The damage is lucky, not the critical chance, thus the damage is rolled twice, not the crit chance. The mastery is very powerful with a low crit chance.

[ZAToM]

Originally posted by Sidian:

Originally posted by Izzydedyet:

From what I gathered from the internet, the lucky/unlucky mechanic in the game works basically the same as advantage/disadvantage rolls in 5E...

Yes.

Originally posted by Izzydedyet:

I'm curious though, for the Lightning Mastery skill "Lightning Dmg w/Non-Crit is Lucky"...does that mean the regular damage is still on the higher end of the spectrum as per "lucky", or does that mean it basically "re-rolls" to determine whether or not it's a crit?

The damage is lucky, not the critical chance, thus the damage is rolled twice, not the crit chance. The mastery is very powerful with a low crit chance.

with a low crit chance?
with elemental overload pls!

[Sonnenbank]

Edit: after some more info

In very simple terms:
If you dont crit in your original hit -> you get a second roll and the higher one of the 2 is taken as damage output

[The_Driver]

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

Lighting damage non crit is lucky =>
you get 2 damage rolls and if both rolls are not a crit
-> the higher damage is taken.

It does not mean that your 2nd roll can be a crit when your first wasnt.

So for example arc with
1-40 damage

you pull the trigger for spell and that moment a roll is done by PoE to determine the damage outcome. If the first roll isnt a crit there is a second roll.
If the second roll isnt a crit either -> the higher of the two damage numbers is taken

first roll 2
2nd roll 33
-> you do 33 damage

first roll 4
2nd roll 60 crit
-> you do 4 :(

extremly powerful for HC SSF/ SC SSF with Arc in Campaign
extremly good with low crit chance but basically does nothing when you have high crit chance

If you have prove that this is right, I recommend doing a bug report. If you have a primary source (most likely Mark from GGG) that this is the intended and implemented way, linking it would be appreciated.

From the wording the damage value is rolled twice, taking the higher one IF it's not a crit. So NOT rolling crit chance twice.

edit: That is if you mean the example is actually how it works in the game, kind of confused by your "It does not mean that your 2nd roll can be a crit when your first wasnt." as that contradicts your example.

[ZAToM]

do people really play that with a "low" critchance and not just only with ele overload/precise technique?

[The_Driver]

Originally posted by ZAToM:

do people really play that with a "low" critchance and not just only with ele overload/precise technique?

You can filter by mastery on https://poe.ninja/daily/builds and https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds to explore that question. The latter is from the ladders, the first is from people updating trade tabs, so a more average playerbase.

[ZAToM]

Originally posted by The_Driver:

Originally posted by ZAToM:

do people really play that with a "low" critchance and not just only with ele overload/precise technique?

You can filter by mastery on https://poe.ninja/daily/builds and https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds to explore that question. The latter is from the ladders, the first is from people updating trade tabs, so a more average playerbase.

i mean is anyone doing that on purpose while knowing what he does without misunderstanding something or just copying something thats wrong (or temp) to begin with?

[JazzyJ]

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

Lighting damage non crit is lucky =>
you get 2 damage rolls and if both rolls are not a crit
-> the higher damage is taken.

It does not mean that your 2nd roll can be a crit when your first wasnt.

So for example arc with
1-40 damage

you pull the trigger for spell and that moment a roll is done by PoE to determine the damage outcome. If the first roll isnt a crit there is a second roll.
If the second roll isnt a crit either -> the higher of the two damage numbers is taken

first roll 2
2nd roll 33
-> you do 33 damage

first roll 4
2nd roll 60 crit
-> you do 4 :(

extremly powerful for HC SSF/ SC SSF with Arc in Campaign
extremly good with low crit chance but basically does nothing when you have high crit chance

To my understanding this is not correct. Note that my understanding comes from years of reading discussions similar to this and many clarifications from Mark_GGG. This doesn't mean I'm right but here is how I understand this works:

When you activate a skill a critical roll number is generated. At this point this is just a number between 0 and 99 and has no actual meaning yet. The important point is that this number is generated ONCE per skill activation/use. Repeats from Spell Echo or Unleash will all use the same number, as will multiple hits from the same skill (e.g. zaps from Ball Lightning).
Next the game determines a hit has occurred (i.e. the skill's hitbox intersects an enemies hit box).
Then damage is calculated (base + flat then multipliers etc) and damage type converted if there is any conversion.
Next the critical chance for this hit is calculated and then compared with the critical roll previously generated. If the hit is determined to be critical then the crit multi is applied. If the hit was not critical and is lucky or unlucky then a second damage calculation is done and the appropriate one of the two is used.

There is no second critical check as only one hit occurred (i.e. only the DAMAGE is rolled again, not the crit or any other effect).

So using the example of "your lightning damage with non-critical strikes is lucky" with a 1 link Arc with base damage 1-40, crit multi of 150, no other multipliers and assuming the enemy has no block or dodge etc:

First roll 2
Second roll 33
You deal 33 damage

First roll 4, Crit.
You deal 6 damage.

One thing to note is that if your skill can hit the same target multiple times with a single use and if the critical chance changes then some hits could be non-crits and others be crits. E.g. if you have Assassin's mark on hit and shoot a ball lightning and your crit roll happens to be too high to crit on the first hit but low enough to crit once the curse is applied.

[Sonnenbank]

Originally posted by JazzyJ:

Originally posted by Sonnenbank:

Lighting damage non crit is lucky =>
you get 2 damage rolls and if both rolls are not a crit
-> the higher damage is taken.

It does not mean that your 2nd roll can be a crit when your first wasnt.

So for example arc with
1-40 damage

you pull the trigger for spell and that moment a roll is done by PoE to determine the damage outcome. If the first roll isnt a crit there is a second roll.
If the second roll isnt a crit either -> the higher of the two damage numbers is taken

first roll 2
2nd roll 33
-> you do 33 damage

first roll 4
2nd roll 60 crit
-> you do 4 :(

extremly powerful for HC SSF/ SC SSF with Arc in Campaign
extremly good with low crit chance but basically does nothing when you have high crit chance

To my understanding this is not correct. Note that my understanding comes from years of reading discussions similar to this and many clarifications from Mark_GGG. This doesn't mean I'm right but here is how I understand this works:

When you activate a skill a critical roll number is generated. At this point this is just a number between 0 and 99 and has no actual meaning yet. The important point is that this number is generated ONCE per skill activation/use. Repeats from Spell Echo or Unleash will all use the same number, as will multiple hits from the same skill (e.g. zaps from Ball Lightning).
Next the game determines a hit has occurred (i.e. the skill's hitbox intersects an enemies hit box).
Then damage is calculated (base + flat then multipliers etc) and damage type converted if there is any conversion.
Next the critical chance for this hit is calculated and then compared with the critical roll previously generated. If the hit is determined to be critical then the crit multi is applied. If the hit was not critical and is lucky or unlucky then a second damage calculation is done and the appropriate one of the two is used.

There is no second critical check as only one hit occurred (i.e. only the DAMAGE is rolled again, not the crit or any other effect).

So using the example of "your lightning damage with non-critical strikes is lucky" with a 1 link Arc with base damage 1-40, crit multi of 150, no other multipliers and assuming the enemy has no block or dodge etc:

First roll 2
Second roll 33
You deal 33 damage

First roll 4, Crit.
You deal 6 damage.

One thing to note is that if your skill can hit the same target multiple times with a single use and if the critical chance changes then some hits could be non-crits and others be crits. E.g. if you have Assassin's mark on hit and shoot a ball lightning and your crit roll happens to be too high to crit on the first hit but low enough to crit once the curse is applied.

My information was just from a streamer who can be wrong also so i guess your take is most likley probably correct then