Gems: To Level or not to Level

[ragen311]

This is a case of internet information overload. There are novels written specifically about gems and their implications on gear. A lot of the info is outdated, and I have not been able to find anything like a list or table that I can quickly check.

The only thing I would like to check is whether or not I should think twice before leveling a gem. My understanding is most gems should be leveled whenever possible (assuming that the gem stat requirements are not satisfied by gear that may be replaced in the near future, rendering the gem useless to you). But I have seen several guides referencing gems that should only be leveled a certain amount or not at all depending on build. I am aware that gems can be reset to level 1, but I just would like more information for this decision.

In Summary:
Is there any guide where I can look up a gem and see if there is any reason not to level a gem completely? If not, what level should I go to, what is the reason for not leveling the gem and do these reasons apply to my build.

Thank you for any help

[Brian9824]

There are really only 2 reasons to not level a gem

1. You might not have stats to use it
2. The gem is activated by something aka cast when damage taken that only supports gems up to a certain level.

[MEITTI]

If you don't have the stats for a gem and then either remove the gem from a gear or remove gear from your character, you can't re-equip it because of the gem. Thats a simple reason why you might want to de-level a certain gem. For example you play dex+ int build but you want to use Taunt totem to keep youreself alive in SSF, Taunt totem requires around 150 Strength in level 20, so either you get that extra stength from somewhere or you delevel the gem when it starts requiring too much strength.

[ByTheNumbers]

It's not too hard to figure out. The most common issue is during levelling. You may not have enough strength, dexterity, or intelligence to use a gem at a given level. The game will prevent you from levelling a gem that requires more stats than you currently have. However, since gear gives you these stats, you will need to keep that in mind. You will run into a situation where you need to upgrade your gear, but cannot because it would make some gems unusable.

The second issue is gems can trigger when a condition is met. Take Arcane Surge, for instance. For that gem to trigger, you need to spend a total amount of specific mana from the gem that Arcane Surge is linked to (dependent on the gem's level) in order for Arcane Surge to trigger. Ideally, you want it to trigger on every cast. So you keep Arcane Surge's level low enough to allow that.

Immortal call linked with cast when damage is taken is another popular example. You want to keep CWDT's level low in order for it to cast immortal call often (to keep your toon alive). Since CWDT's level determines what level of skills it can cast and you want it casting often, immortal call has to be low level.

Basically, read what the skill gems you use carefully. Any gems that talk about triggering (either itself or another gem) will have criteria to meet and often interact with gem level in some way. Going back to CWDT and Immortal Call, if you also link a curse gem in there, but it's a very high level gem, CWDT will not cast it at all because the criteria has not been met.

[Tydo]

Originally posted by brian9824:

There are really only 2 reasons to not level a gem

1. You might not have stats to use it
2. The gem is activated by something aka cast when damage taken that only supports gems up to a certain level.

3. the mana cost is getting out of hand, compared to your regen or what your flask(s) can sustain.
Check the POE wiki for the scaling of the gem to see if you can skip levelling the gem for a while without losing much.
You might think: "i'll just use a mana leech support gem". Not really. You might want to stick mana support on either of the Brand skills for some semi-passive regen, but don't waste a skill link on your main killer that way.

On the plus side, support gems have a fixed mana cost multiplier, so you will always want to level those up if you have the stats. This has always seemed strange (lowel level=less benefit, but at full cost), but those are the cards we are dealt.

Someone else already mentioned Arcane Surge, the upside down bastard support gem.
Levelling that optimally takes some careful planning. Usually you want to avoid it using entirely or just keep it at level 1 for getting it to trigger and retrigger as much as possible.

With the recent buff to AS, it looks appealing on paper, but the trigger cost gets too big for sustained use. In that regard the math is simple, better a smaller boost that kicks in fast and has defacto 100% uptime, instead of a large boost that takes longer to trigger and is not going to have full uptime for most uses.

Also, it is useless with totems: will not trigger from the totem placement (which is a lot of mana) and will not trigger from the spells the totem is casting.
No arcane surge for you... which is why the Hierophant has a 4point ascendancy node that simply grants level 1 AS when you or your totems hit something. Yeah, you read that right, level 1, quality 0. And btw granting the old version, not the buffed new one.

So even if you did also use AS on another combination (e.g. a curse or brand) with a higher level and quality, the ascendancy version would constantly be "overwriting" that buff with its own.

Originally posted by ragen311:

Is there any guide where I can look up a gem and see if there is any reason not to level a gem completely?

Not that is any good. Use the wiki a lot and apply some brainpower. Only you are the one who knows the details of your character (cast speed, linked skills, mana regen, etc).
This just provides you with the basics
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Skill_gem

[Grumpy]

people really stop to leveling their main damage skills in favour for less mana? o.ô

Originally posted by Tydo:

Also, it is useless with totems: will not trigger from the totem placement (which is a lot of mana) and will not trigger from the spells the totem is casting.
No arcane surge for you... which is why the Hierophant has a 4point ascendancy node that simply grants level 1 AS when you or your totems hit something. Yeah, you read that right, level 1, quality 0. And btw granting the old version, not the buffed new one.

most people link arcane surge to utility spells like orb of storms or flame dash to have it up. the 19% more damage is nice but other support gems can giving more.

moreover, the buffed version where the linked gem will get more %damage, is irrelevant on the hierophant because you dont link it in any way. the hiero AS also dont waste any sockets.

Originally posted by Tydo:

So even if you did also use AS on another combination (e.g. a curse or brand) with a higher level and quality, the ascendancy version would constantly be "overwriting" that buff with its own.

why would you waste 4 ascendancy points to get perma AS from the hiero if you plan to use it yourself manually? that makes no sense your complain here.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

people really stop to leveling their main damage skills in favour for less mana? o.ô

Originally posted by Tydo:

Also, it is useless with totems: will not trigger from the totem placement (which is a lot of mana) and will not trigger from the spells the totem is casting.
No arcane surge for you... which is why the Hierophant has a 4point ascendancy node that simply grants level 1 AS when you or your totems hit something. Yeah, you read that right, level 1, quality 0. And btw granting the old version, not the buffed new one.

most people link arcane surge to utility spells like orb of storms or flame dash to have it up. the 19% more damage is nice but other support gems can giving more.

moreover, the buffed version where the linked gem will get more %damage, is irrelevant on the hierophant because you dont link it in any way. the hiero AS also dont waste any sockets.

Originally posted by Tydo:

So even if you did also use AS on another combination (e.g. a curse or brand) with a higher level and quality, the ascendancy version would constantly be "overwriting" that buff with its own.

why would you waste 4 ascendancy points to get perma AS from the hiero if you plan to use it yourself manually? that makes no sense your complain here.

Yeah my main atm is a level 90 totem user and I have it linked to flame dash. Use mind over matter, and leveled it so it triggers every cast of flame dash. Extra damage and regen and feeds into my defense.

[Kezn]

I personally havent used a char that cannot max rank the main damage gem as my chars at least is based/buildt around that stat always. But i havent played much of the niche builds tho.