Is shield charge build handicapped?

[WhateverNevermind]

Ive noticed as a shield charge build, you take a loss in terms of gear. Firstly you have only a hand full of items you can wear if you wanna do dmg.. abyssus, meginords, that buckler shield and facebreakers, you pretty much have to wear those to shield charge with some damage right?
So youre very stricted on what gear you can use.

Also you lose an entire slot, or 3 or 6 sockets depending on how you see it. If you are 1 handed you get 6 sockets on the 1 handed item.. if you are dual wielding you get 3 on each weapon, if you have a bow you get 6 sockets and a quiver supporting it..

If you are shield charge you only get 3 sockets, and you only ever get one 6 socket item! your armor. you potentially lost out on two 6 socket items or two 3 socket items, or atleast a support item the quiver for a bow.

So i wonder if ggg could add 6 socket shield that counts as a two handed weapon, or allow a player to use two 1 handed shields, maybe for a shield throw build, or whatever, would be fun experimenting with it.

[Grumpy]

what do you want with that much sockets? giving that the main skill is also the movement skill you dont need the obvious movement skill + faster attacks + fortify combo, so it would be looks like that:

1x 6L for shield charge (the body armor)
1x 4L for potential warchief setup (helmet)
1x 4L for potential CwDt + golem setup (gloves)
1x 3L for vaal stuff + duration / portal gem (shield)
1x 4L for 2x aura + 1x for blood rage (boots)

starting with the last socket in the boots in wouldnt know what to put in there. let alone, that you want even more sockets

[WhateverNevermind]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

what do you want with that much sockets? giving that the main skill is also the movement skill you dont need the obvious movement skill + faster attacks + fortify combo, so it would be looks like that:

1x 6L for shield charge (the body armor)
1x 4L for potential warchief setup (helmet)
1x 4L for potential CwDt + golem setup (gloves)
1x 3L for vaal stuff + duration / portal gem (shield)
1x 4L for 2x aura + 1x for blood rage (boots)

starting with the last socket in the boots in wouldnt know what to put in there. let alone, that you want even more sockets

.... there are other builds that have skills the also increase their movement ability. What do i need with that much sockets? What does any build need with that many sockets then?

I think youre missing the point, please re read.

[Grumpy]

I dont miss your point, which is that shield charge builds are handicapped in your PoV, given that you miss 3 sockets. But on the other hand, you cant even tell what you want to put in there or why you need that 3 sockets so much, that you say its handicapped. You only compare the socket count to 2x 1hand weapons or a 2h weapon.

In my first reply, its pretty much the standard shield charge setup you use with some variations here and there. So questions still stands, what do you want in this particular build with the 3 more sockets to make SC builds not handicapped anymore? and answering my question with some general blabla questions helps not that much.

Not to mention, that facebreaker just working when your main hand is empty. Adding shields which counting as 2h or similar stuff would make the use of facebreakers in these builds redundant.

[WhateverNevermind]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

I dont miss your point, which is that shield charge builds are handicapped in your PoV, given that you miss 3 sockets. But on the other hand, you cant even tell what you want to put in there or why you need that 3 sockets so much, that you say its handicapped. You only compare the socket count to 2x 1hand weapons or a 2h weapon.

In my first reply, its pretty much the standard shield charge setup you use with some variations here and there. So questions still stands, what do you want in this particular build with the 3 more sockets to make SC builds not handicapped anymore? and answering my question with some general blabla questions helps not that much.

Not to mention, that facebreaker just working when your main hand is empty. Adding shields which counting as 2h or similar stuff would make the use of facebreakers in these builds redundant.

You still dont get it.. shield charge gets 3 sockets or a possible 6 socket taken away from it.. You keep saying why do you need it? Ummmm because its fair?

Personally i could use the 6 socket shield to put my shield charge into then use the 6 socket armor to stack a totem into. or anything i want! thats the point. I seriously dont get how you can take a statement about shield charge losing sockets and say well what do you need them for anyways.... it boggles my mind, which is why i gave you a blah blah response, if youre responding with such a ridiculous statement im never going to get it through your head. good day

[Loco]

There is no 6 socket shield. Shields have 3, 1handers have 3.

The only way to get two 6 socket items is to have a 6s armor and a 2handed weapon with 6 sockets.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

Originally posted by Grumpy:

I dont miss your point, which is that shield charge builds are handicapped in your PoV, given that you miss 3 sockets. But on the other hand, you cant even tell what you want to put in there or why you need that 3 sockets so much, that you say its handicapped. You only compare the socket count to 2x 1hand weapons or a 2h weapon.

In my first reply, its pretty much the standard shield charge setup you use with some variations here and there. So questions still stands, what do you want in this particular build with the 3 more sockets to make SC builds not handicapped anymore? and answering my question with some general blabla questions helps not that much.

Not to mention, that facebreaker just working when your main hand is empty. Adding shields which counting as 2h or similar stuff would make the use of facebreakers in these builds redundant.

You still dont get it.. shield charge gets 3 sockets or a possible 6 socket taken away from it.. You keep saying why do you need it? Ummmm because its fair?

Personally i could use the 6 socket shield to put my shield charge into then use the 6 socket armor to stack a totem into. or anything i want! thats the point. I seriously dont get how you can take a statement about shield charge losing sockets and say well what do you need them for anyways.... it boggles my mind, which is why i gave you a blah blah response, if youre responding with such a ridiculous statement im never going to get it through your head. good day

given by your reasoning you probably didnt played a SC build before.

and stop arguing with the theoretical 6L shield you dreaming of. if its not existing yet, it cant be taken away. all you do is to trade 3 sockets with 600-800% MORE phys dmg, which is quite a fair trade to return to the fairness statement.

[WhateverNevermind]

Originally posted by Loco:

There is no 6 socket shield. Shields have 3, 1handers have 3.

The only way to get two 6 socket items is to have a 6s armor and a 2handed weapon with 6 sockets.

Unless youre a shield build. you dont get two 6 socket items, ever..only one 3 socket shield and nothing else.

Thats why i think they should have some bonus items, or a 6 socket shield.

[WhateverNevermind]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

You still dont get it.. shield charge gets 3 sockets or a possible 6 socket taken away from it.. You keep saying why do you need it? Ummmm because its fair?

Personally i could use the 6 socket shield to put my shield charge into then use the 6 socket armor to stack a totem into. or anything i want! thats the point. I seriously dont get how you can take a statement about shield charge losing sockets and say well what do you need them for anyways.... it boggles my mind, which is why i gave you a blah blah response, if youre responding with such a ridiculous statement im never going to get it through your head. good day

given by your reasoning you probably didnt played a SC build before.

and stop arguing with the theoretical 6L shield you dreaming of. if its not existing yet, it cant be taken away. all you do is to trade 3 sockets with 600-800% MORE phys dmg, which is quite a fair trade to return to the fairness statement.

You still dont get it. Please re read

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

Originally posted by Grumpy:

given by your reasoning you probably didnt played a SC build before.

and stop arguing with the theoretical 6L shield you dreaming of. if its not existing yet, it cant be taken away. all you do is to trade 3 sockets with 600-800% MORE phys dmg, which is quite a fair trade to return to the fairness statement.

You still dont get it. Please re read

no?

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

You still dont get it.. shield charge gets 3 sockets [...] taken away from it..

here you told me in post #4

Originally posted by Grumpy:

I dont miss your point, which is that shield charge builds are handicapped in your PoV, given that you miss 3 sockets.

here I told you, in post #3

Originally posted by Grumpy:

all you do is to trade 3 sockets with 600-800% MORE phys dmg, which is quite a fair trade to return to the fairness statement.

and the same in #6

Pls enlighten me, oh weird CatKiller!
I related 2 times directly to the missing 3 gem slots and it was wrong, even so it was the exact part you told me yourself what I dont get.

the standard socket count on a build, excluding jewellery with sockets, is 24
the socket count on an unarmed build is 21 due to the trade off with facebreaker

builds which using 2x 1hand items are always limited to one 6 socket item. why should facebreaker builds be something special?
which brings back to the very first question I asked what you put in 3 sockets so that the build would not handicapped anymore?

basically the thread so far:

1. the fact is, that with the facebreakers trade off you loose 3 sockets compared to a build with a weapon. - nobody cant argue with that
   
2. you claim due to the loose the build gets handicapped - ok, thats fine its your opinion
   
3. I asked you, what you put theoretically in these 3 missing sockets so that it would be no more handicapped- still no answer for this one
   
4. From there you going with some theoretically stuff which is completely irrelevant, and will probably never happen, to the claim of the whole topic that SC builds are on handicap due to 3 sockets less

Moreover, there is not 1 distinct fact besides the sockets count, why the build should be in a disadvantage because back in abyss the SC build worked pretty solid.

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

Originally posted by Loco:

There is no 6 socket shield. Shields have 3, 1handers have 3.

The only way to get two 6 socket items is to have a 6s armor and a 2handed weapon with 6 sockets.

Yea man im saying though, it would be cool if there were a 2 handed shield or to be allowed to have two 1 handed shields OR a some kinda of bonus granting item to the shield, like how a quiver is to a bow. [...]

you may also wanna take the "re-read" tour:

Originally posted by Grumpy:

[...]Not to mention, that facebreaker just working when your main hand is empty. Adding shields which counting as 2h or similar stuff would make the use of facebreakers in these builds redundant.

[Loco]

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

Originally posted by Loco:

There is no 6 socket shield. Shields have 3, 1handers have 3.

The only way to get two 6 socket items is to have a 6s armor and a 2handed weapon with 6 sockets.

Unless youre a shield build. you dont get two 6 socket items, ever..only one 3 socket shield and nothing else.

Thats why i think they should have some bonus items, or a 6 socket shield.

No, I understood perfectly. You were talking about using a 6 socket shield. And I explained, there isn't one.

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

...
Personally i could use the 6 socket shield to put my shield charge into then use the 6 socket armor to stack a totem into. or anything i want! thats the point.
...

[WhateverNevermind]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

You still dont get it. Please re read

no?

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

You still dont get it.. shield charge gets 3 sockets [...] taken away from it..

here you told me in post #4

Originally posted by Grumpy:

I dont miss your point, which is that shield charge builds are handicapped in your PoV, given that you miss 3 sockets.

here I told you, in post #3

Originally posted by Grumpy:

all you do is to trade 3 sockets with 600-800% MORE phys dmg, which is quite a fair trade to return to the fairness statement.

and the same in #6

Pls enlighten me, oh weird CatKiller!
I related 2 times directly to the missing 3 gem slots and it was wrong, even so it was the exact part you told me yourself what I dont get.

the standard socket count on a build, excluding jewellery with sockets, is 24
the socket count on an unarmed build is 21 due to the trade off with facebreaker

builds which using 2x 1hand items are always limited to one 6 socket item. why should facebreaker builds be something special?
which brings back to the very first question I asked what you put in 3 sockets so that the build would not handicapped anymore?

basically the thread so far:

1. the fact is, that with the facebreakers trade off you loose 3 sockets compared to a build with a weapon. - nobody cant argue with that
   
2. you claim due to the loose the build gets handicapped - ok, thats fine its your opinion
   
3. I asked you, what you put theoretically in these 3 missing sockets so that it would be no more handicapped- still no answer for this one
   
4. From there you going with some theoretically stuff which is completely irrelevant, and will probably never happen, to the claim of the whole topic that SC builds are on handicap due to 3 sockets less

Moreover, there is not 1 distinct fact besides the sockets count, why the build should be in a disadvantage because back in abyss the SC build worked pretty solid.

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

Yea man im saying though, it would be cool if there were a 2 handed shield or to be allowed to have two 1 handed shields OR a some kinda of bonus granting item to the shield, like how a quiver is to a bow. [...]

you may also wanna take the "re-read" tour:

Originally posted by Grumpy:

[...]Not to mention, that facebreaker just working when your main hand is empty. Adding shields which counting as 2h or similar stuff would make the use of facebreakers in these builds redundant.

1 - it is not just 3 sockets that you lose as a shield charge, You lose a potentional 6 socket item space, most classed get two 6os items, or have a massive trade off. Facebreakers arent even close.

Fundamentally the shield charge build does not get the same base to build off of that most other builds do, as you not only dont get the extra 6os but also dont get the 3os either.

You continue to make it about losing only 3os cause there is no 6os shield, then tell me stop bringing up cause it doesnt exist.. THATS MY POINT! jesus christ! There should be more support for this handicapped build, be it a 6os 2handed shield, a second 1 handed shield, better buffed facebreakers or an item to buff the shield, like the quiver is to a bow.

Then you say well facebreakers make up for the loses.. NO. The facebreakers are extremely limited, and not very good either.

1. Look at facebreaker mods..30% crit multiplier. forces you into a crit build, or lose the mod space, 10% reduced enemy stun thres..ok? 600-800 increased phys, ok, a good mod, extra gore... thats it? wtf oh and 36 eva, 7 es.. thats worth losing 6sockets over? ive seen better stats than that on builds that get all sockets and are stronger already than shield charge.

[WhateverNevermind]

its the same thing as taking 3 sockets off of every bow in the game and allowing no quivers.
You use the shield as the weapon with this build, it is your weapon!

-Any 1 handed weapon slot gets a second weapons slot to assit it or a shield @ 3 sockets each!

-All two handed weapon slots get 6 sockets..

-Alll bows weapon slots get 6 sockets AND an assitive apparatus! (the quiver)

All configurations above allow for either, 2, 6 socket items, or 2, 3 socket items + the 6 socket armor. This isnt true for the shield charge configuration below.

-Gets 1 weapon slot, no secondary weapons slot dividing the 3sockets each..The 1 weapon slot you do get is capped at 3sockets, no assistive apparatus, no secondary 6 socket item space, even though technically youre using 1 weapon slot space as a weapon, rules of 2 handed weapons should be applied here, as your sheild IS YOUR WEAPON.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

1 - it is not just 3 sockets that you lose as a shield charge, You lose a potentional 6 socket item space, most classed get two 6os items, or have a massive trade off. Facebreakers arent even close.

wtf are you talking about? you have like EVERY other build which dont use 2h weapons just ONE 6 socket item. and in the case of this build, these 6 sockets combine your movement and damage skill.

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

You continue to make it about losing only 3os cause there is no 6os shield, then tell me stop bringing up cause it doesnt exist.. THATS MY POINT! jesus christ! There should be more support for this handicapped build, be it a 6os 2handed shield, a second 1 handed shield, better buffed facebreakers or an item to buff the shield, like the quiver is to a bow.

THIS BUILD IS NOT HANDICAPPED! Maybe not the build is the problem in this case, what do i know.

Your only claim is that SC builds are handicapped due to the loss of the 3 sockets (and maybe the weap slot) and for that you offer a solution which makes NOT any sense because it would occupy the main hand slot and render the use of given facebreaker completely useless, which leads to more damage loss than it would gain.

Show ANY real proof besides the fcking socket count, that shield charge builds are handicapped, or show us your handicapped build, so that we can understand what you mean.

Maybe you should start learning the game and READ and understand what others tell you, like in these threads:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/238960/discussions/0/3288067088093028233/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/238960/discussions/0/1694920442957611892/

Booth about the same ♥♥♥♥ with theoretically 6 socket shields because some newbie dont understand a particular build.

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

Then you say well facebreakers make up for the loses.. NO. The facebreakers are extremely limited, and not very good either.

just ..

Originally posted by StrayCatKiller:

1. Look at facebreaker mods..30% crit multiplier. forces you into a crit build, or lose the mod space, 10% reduced enemy stun thres..ok? 600-800 increased phys, ok, a good mod, extra gore... thats it? wtf oh and 36 eva, 7 es.. thats worth losing 6sockets over? ive seen better stats than that on builds that get all sockets and are stronger already than shield charge.

and again for the really really slow people:
you dont loose 6 sockets items in shield charge builds, because given that shield charge needs a shield you are locked in the 1x 6 socket + 2x 3 socket region from the get go. you cant loose something which you dont have in the first place.

----

Thats also my last post here, because like everyone can see, discussing with this particular user makes no sense at all and just leads to the abyssal depths of "newbie dont understands and / or dont want learn the game".

._.

[WhateverNevermind]

lol "cause everyone can see" theres like no one here... You keep saying the same ♥♥♥♥ and i keep explaining that IK IT DOESNT EXIST, but it should. Jesus h ♥♥♥♥

[A New Player]

I don't think there needs to be a 6l shield. Dual-wielding shields? Probably broken, but sure. What do you even need a second 6l for with shields?

Also, you think that's handicapped? I recommend you never try minions.
- No natural non-jewel affixes
- No leech/other sustainability unless you invest into 1000 str(mjolner, a high-stat item, only requires 712 of mixed stats to use)
- Socket intensive
- Horrible AI
- Relies on uniques, which usually have low ES/defence(Bones of Ullr, which is one of the few ways to get more minions, only has ~30 ES)
- Horrible enchants. 40% increased specific minion damage OR use a bone helmet for slightly lower stats and +40% to all minions.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Shaper/Elder items have minion affixes, but these only show up near the end-game.