How to stop Trialmaster mobs from one shotting you

[MasterKroket]

Its quite bizarre. I can run and level through the game without even a risk of ever dying.
But then with thes Trialmaster fights sometimes i get one shot out of the blue...
Is this monsters getting 'enraged' or something? I play marauder and invested quite a bit in life and armor like i said normal things even bosses dont even come close to ever killing me.
I have fortify and defiance usually active as well...
I pop molten shell whenever i can and then pop jade and basalt flasks during cooldown but sometimes even that isnt enough and sometimes the 0,5 second none of it is on i get one shot out of the blue? It seems quite random. I guess you need to kill stuff faster there so the monsters dont get 'enraged'? (Even though it only says monsters get enraged after some time with some of the encounters not all.)

[NixBoxDone]

Yeah, the problem is that there's a lot of them and they can buff each other. No idea about other builds, but the high density of other damage effects doesn't help for my slayer, taking up much of my leech so that it takes longer to recover when one of those baboons rings my bell.

Depending on your skills and setup you might want to switch from Immortal call to Molten Shell so you can keep your endurance charges and run the blood & sand stuff in sand mode to blind and reduce damage overall.
Having a potion like Lion's Roar also helps if you have decent aspd and can apply a bunch of knock-backs at once using that.

Killing them before they can kill you certainly also works, as does trying to position yourself so you're not surrounded and kiting them, but that also depends on what skill you're using.

Personally I'm running 4 endurance charges, immortal call, some decent block, armor, fortify, the sand aura and the phys damage aura that makes enemies that hit me deal 10 % less when they whack me.
Still get dog-piled now and then if I'm careless.

The mechanic really isn't tuned to be all that safe. You're supposed to be on the lookout for map modifiers that can make it extra dangerous and potentially tap out if it feels too rippy.

If you don't think Lion's Roar fits your build, Rumi's Concoction is also really cheap and gives you a really generous helping of extra armor and block when you use it.

[Nakos]

Oprindeligt skrevet af NixBoxDone:

Depending on your skills and setup you might want to switch from Immortal call to Molten Shell so you can keep your endurance charges and run the blood & sand stuff in sand mode to blind and reduce damage overall.
Having a potion like Lion's Roar also helps if you have decent aspd and can apply a bunch of knock-backs at once using that.

Hmm... that sounds like a potentially useful approach. Immortal Call does eat Endurance Charges.

My greatest success comes from running Conc Path (which is a high mobility attack), doing lots of damage, and just not being there when the hits fall. I have Fortify Supported linked, and I'm usually pretty tanky, but The Trialmaster's stuff can overwhelm that. It's enough to let me run lower level Ultimatums, but not on-level ones.

I hadn't really considered Molten Shell though... I'll have to give that a try.

I'd love to have Flesh and Stone running, but I've got Herald of Ash, and Blasphemy Support (with Flammability) running, and that's pretty much my limit on reserved mana.

[MasterKroket]

I am still levelling not lvl 100 yet i am at 69 now.
I dont really understand blood and sand stances and dont use em. I noticed my bladestorm has a different effect based on which one is active.
My main attack tends to be tectonic slam.
I got Blood Magic and the one that makes auras cost no life + Determination. Still got to get the other keynode that strengthens the effect 50%.
I got Molten Shell with increased duration and iron will.
Also got the Stone Golem that regenerates more life and ancestral warchief i pop to hit mobs whenever i can. Lastly got Infernal Cry i use occasionally but dont risk it a lot in these.

Right now if its survive or stand in circles i in general go for it and just keep using my mobility skill Leap Slam while keeping defences up. If its the other 2 i only go a few rounds and only attack when my molten shell is up but even that doesnt seem to be an absolute guarantee. The damage spike is just massive.

[BelChris666]

First Good Luck on trying on getting to 100. I have 3k hours and have never brought myself to grind enough to get there. You get XP hit when you die. That on top of the maps starting to be too low to get decent XP which makes 100 a grind. Early 90s is a better goal for building dudes for most people.

Blood and Sand and Flesh an Stone are two part stance skills - one side is defense heavy while the other is more offense. While red it maims and does more area damage. When yellow you take less damage from ranged while doing a bigger aoe area. This is good when you use on hit effects like life gain on hit gem or life leech with a fast attack such as cyclone.

Do you have a way to generate endurance charges? You could use a cast on damage linked with immortal call for a self casting defense buff.

Are your flask 20% quality and enchanted to cover burn/freeze/bleed? You might be getting a few at once and not realizing it. You want to try and keep 100 covered for at least freeze and bleed.

The last thing is what are your resists. I try to keep my resist at around 100 to counter map mods that lower them. However the true cap is 75. Elemental damage is pretty brutal on PoE you need to counter it.

[Rinko]

@OP I suggest you reread the Defy Pain node in the berserk ascendancy, it has a downside.
Also rather than describe your character, it's better to just link your character tab.

Oprindeligt skrevet af MasterKroket:

I am still levelling not lvl 100 yet i am at 69 now.

OH MAN

@Nakos
Just self cast curses or get flammability on a ring, saves you gem slots and you should only need the curse for bosses if your build is decent. Running flesh and stone in sand stance this league is really strong.

[NixBoxDone]

Oprindeligt skrevet af MasterKroket:

I am still levelling not lvl 100 yet i am at 69 now.
I dont really understand blood and sand stances and dont use em. I noticed my bladestorm has a different effect based on which one is active.
My main attack tends to be tectonic slam.
I got Blood Magic and the one that makes auras cost no life + Determination. Still got to get the other keynode that strengthens the effect 50%.
I got Molten Shell with increased duration and iron will.
Also got the Stone Golem that regenerates more life and ancestral warchief i pop to hit mobs whenever i can. Lastly got Infernal Cry i use occasionally but dont risk it a lot in these.

Right now if its survive or stand in circles i in general go for it and just keep using my mobility skill Leap Slam while keeping defences up. If its the other 2 i only go a few rounds and only attack when my molten shell is up but even that doesnt seem to be an absolute guarantee. The damage spike is just massive.

Blood and sand + flesh and stone is basically a choice between offense and defense. The two auras in sand stance blind nearby enemies and reduce damage from enemies that aren't nearby, increase your area of effect and reduce your damage a little to compensate (gels really well with some items and nodes that increase damage vs. blinded enemies, but you can get the same blind effect from jewels instead if you want).
In blood stance the two auras instead reduce your area of effect, but increase the area damage, cause nearby enemies to take additional phyiscal damage and maim them to reduce their movement speed.

There's a champion ascendancy node and a passive cluster that work with the two auras and they're pretty cheap, especially in a 4-link with a third reserved skill and enlighten.

In sand mode damage done to you is massively reduced, in blood stance you can clear trash out much quicker. Unlike other auras, switching is just a button so you can switch between the two as required (sand when you're in a scrum, blood when the map is mostly smooth sailing).

[NixBoxDone]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Nakos:

Oprindeligt skrevet af NixBoxDone:

Depending on your skills and setup you might want to switch from Immortal call to Molten Shell so you can keep your endurance charges and run the blood & sand stuff in sand mode to blind and reduce damage overall.
Having a potion like Lion's Roar also helps if you have decent aspd and can apply a bunch of knock-backs at once using that.

Hmm... that sounds like a potentially useful approach. Immortal Call does eat Endurance Charges.

My greatest success comes from running Conc Path (which is a high mobility attack), doing lots of damage, and just not being there when the hits fall. I have Fortify Supported linked, and I'm usually pretty tanky, but The Trialmaster's stuff can overwhelm that. It's enough to let me run lower level Ultimatums, but not on-level ones.

I hadn't really considered Molten Shell though... I'll have to give that a try.

I'd love to have Flesh and Stone running, but I've got Herald of Ash, and Blasphemy Support (with Flammability) running, and that's pretty much my limit on reserved mana.

Yeah, that's my mode with cyclone as well. Enemies can't hurt you if they can't catch you.
Got a rotgut so I'm zooming pretty well and mob density in ultimatums pretty much lets me slam any potion again as soon as the effects are about to end, so I'm also running Lion's Roar for the extra damage, armor and knock-back (critters run into my cyclone, get hit and get pushed back), Atziri's Promise (+ Ming's Heart) for more damage and leech and Kiara's Determination to keep me immune to freeze and curses during the fight, making the ice pustules pretty much free.

I bought a jewel that makes immune to corrupt blood for a couple chaos so the razorblade ones are free as well.
For anything but standing in the circles, the farty cloud and phantom are free, too. I usually do ruin as well, given as most smaller mobs die in a hit as they come into range.

This lets me run ultimatums with some degree of safety on + 20 % rare corrupted tier 15 maps, but I have to tap out sometimes and there's the odd moment where I accidentally circle too close to 4 rares and they collectively crit and kill me while my immortal call is down.
Btw, I run immortal call because I've got like 4 different passives that give me charges when I'm getting hit or killing something - suggested switching it out mainly because I sometimes see damage spikes on my own build after it expires and when my passives didn't fill me back up to 4 in time.

[Nakos]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Rinko:

@Nakos
Just self cast curses or get flammability on a ring, saves you gem slots and you should only need the curse for bosses if your build is decent. Running flesh and stone in sand stance this league is really strong.

Hmm... I'm not so comfortable with a lot of keybinds. Aging reflexes and mild dyslexia. I can manage a few keybinds just fine, but when the number creeps up, my efficiency (at using them) drops dramatically. I'm using Conc Path, an Oni Goroshi, and I built for doing a lot of fire damage. Having everything have a lot of fire susceptibility (that I don't have to self-cast) generally works out really well for me.

I suppose I could try dropping that out for Flesh and Stone and see how that performs ... I'll give it a try.

Honestly, if I'm going to self-cast, I'd be more likely to go with Warlord's Mark.

Also, I'm one of those SSF nuts ;)
So ... while a ring sounds like a nice idea, it only becomes an option if I find one.

Oprindeligt skrevet af NixBoxDone:

I bought a jewel that makes immune to corrupt blood for a couple chaos so the razorblade ones are free as well.
For anything but standing in the circles, the farty cloud and phantom are free, too. I usually do ruin as well, given as most smaller mobs die in a hit as they come into range.

I found a Jewel with the corrupted blood immunity on it. I'm not sure if the rest of it has enough synergy to bother to run though. I'll have to check it.

Edit:
Corrupted Blood Cannot Be Inflicted
6% increased Attack Speed while Dual Wielding
12% Global Crit multiplier
0.32% physical attack damaged leeched as life
3% Attack and Cast speed.
(Corrupted, of course)

The Dual Wield part is useless to me, and while crit is nice, it's not a focus of my build, so ... good, but maybe not worth dropping any of my other Jewels for. I'll have to think about that too.


Generally, I've got LOTS of Life Leech (and Bloodless), so even with Corrupted Blood stacks I'm generally sucking back enough health to mitigate it.

Oprindeligt skrevet af NixBoxDone:

Btw, I run immortal call because I've got like 4 different passives that give me charges when I'm getting hit or killing something - suggested switching it out mainly because I sometimes see damage spikes on my own build after it expires and when my passives didn't fill me back up to 4 in time.

Generally, Immortal Call works pretty well for me, but I'm at the point where trying some different defensive strategies sounds like a solid empirical research path.

[Rinko]

@Nix I suggest getting ailment immunity through gear, you can craft chance to avoid with the bench on helm, boots and chest. Shaper influenced boots can roll it, there's passives as well (crystal skin is a very good anoitment choice but some duelists will just get the entire wheel). When it reaches 100% avoid or higher you're immune.

Rotgut and kiara's determination aren't good flasks for a slayer, I recommend magic flasks instead. Also be mindful of orange rares as they can have nullifier which will remove all your buffs (flasks, charges, etc)

@Nakos It's just one extra button for bosses really, I don't self-cast curse packs when I'm using self-cast curses. Getting a ring with flammability isn't hard on SSF but it's not something you can get immediately. Increasing IIQ on maps with drox will help try to get a influenced ring to drop or if you get lucky you can find rings with flam on hit from 'contains fire items' nodes in delve.

For both of you, you can use vaal molten shell even if molten shell is linked with CWDT. Armor is extra health with molten shell/VMS. Though there are reasons to use IC. VMS is pretty helpful if things go wrong during the league mechanic.

[MasterKroket]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Rinko:

@OP I suggest you reread the Defy Pain node in the berserk ascendancy, it has a downside.
Also rather than describe your character, it's better to just link your character tab.

Oprindeligt skrevet af MasterKroket:

I am still levelling not lvl 100 yet i am at 69 now.

OH MAN

@Nakos
Just self cast curses or get flammability on a ring, saves you gem slots and you should only need the curse for bosses if your build is decent. Running flesh and stone in sand stance this league is really strong.

Oh my... OOPS. So everytime i get 10 defiance i insta die basically?!
I didnt read correctly i thought i DID damage to surrounding mobs instead...
so you advice to use my refund points and get something else from that tree instead?
If i want to use defiance i probably have to use the one thing that spreads half damage out over time instead i guess instead of doing it immediately?? A right Petrified Blood. I assume i have to use that in combination? Well i think i rather just get rid of the defiance nodes if its the reason i am dying like that haha!

-

Oprindeligt skrevet af NixBoxDone:

Blood and sand + flesh and stone is basically a choice between offense and defense. The two auras in sand stance blind nearby enemies and reduce damage from enemies that aren't nearby, increase your area of effect and reduce your damage a little to compensate (gels really well with some items and nodes that increase damage vs. blinded enemies, but you can get the same blind effect from jewels instead if you want).
In blood stance the two auras instead reduce your area of effect, but increase the area damage, cause nearby enemies to take additional phyiscal damage and maim them to reduce their movement speed.

There's a champion ascendancy node and a passive cluster that work with the two auras and they're pretty cheap, especially in a 4-link with a third reserved skill and enlighten.

In sand mode damage done to you is massively reduced, in blood stance you can clear trash out much quicker. Unlike other auras, switching is just a button so you can switch between the two as required (sand when you're in a scrum, blood when the map is mostly smooth sailing).

Ah its two gems i see now. No i am not using those. They are auras though and i got the keynode that has me only have 1 aura available and i have defiance for armor. I should get the sand one instead you think?
I am pretty close to the versatile stance passive nodes could easily get those soon if i were to go for Sand over defiance. Especially using Bladestorm a lot having big AoE is nice i guess.

Oprindeligt skrevet af BelChris666:

First Good Luck on trying on getting to 100. I have 3k hours and have never brought myself to grind enough to get there. You get XP hit when you die. That on top of the maps starting to be too low to get decent XP which makes 100 a grind. Early 90s is a better goal for building dudes for most people.

Blood and Sand and Flesh an Stone are two part stance skills - one side is defense heavy while the other is more offense. While red it maims and does more area damage. When yellow you take less damage from ranged while doing a bigger aoe area. This is good when you use on hit effects like life gain on hit gem or life leech with a fast attack such as cyclone.

Do you have a way to generate endurance charges? You could use a cast on damage linked with immortal call for a self casting defense buff.

Are your flask 20% quality and enchanted to cover burn/freeze/bleed? You might be getting a few at once and not realizing it. You want to try and keep 100 covered for at least freeze and bleed.

The last thing is what are your resists. I try to keep my resist at around 100 to counter map mods that lower them. However the true cap is 75. Elemental damage is pretty brutal on PoE you need to counter it.

My Elemental Resistances are all at 76 which is the maximum for me right now. All 3 are slightly higher too so i can change some gear and stay at the cap. My Chaos is at -30% though not a lot of chance to get that up i saw one ring with chaos resistance but it sucked otherwise.

My flasks still arent 20% i just got the divine flasks i am grabbing all superior flasks i see to get the glass baubles to slowly level em up.

Endurance Charges... I dont know. I get Fortify whenever i use Tectonic Slam from the support gem. I used to have a unique flask that had 1 endurance charge + 2 other when used but i replaced it with jade and basalt for defence when i could.
My character is using Strength only armour with little to no evasion / magic shield so using it gives me 3000 (+89% evasion from the flask itself) and makes me go to more than 60% evasion when used. I thought that would be more useful that grabbing the granite flask for armour since it wouldnt present as much as a rise i figured. I do hope to get one later to add. I got a silver flask for onslaught now + 2 healing flasks one being panicked for sudden healing. I think i only got a way to get rid of freeze now with the basalt one. I could probably reroll the Silver One for something like get rid of shock or ignite.

[Rinko]

@OP Risk awareness and two passives near it can help, there's also sibyl's lament (while in the right ring slot) to deal with it. High armor and fortify can help as well.

[MasterKroket]

ah yes i see Risk Awareness i could have grabbed it but ok.
For now i replaced Defiance with the first 2 from the Rage tree and liking the difference already. At 60 rage my damage was way up.
I should have realized Defiance had such a downside since Aspect of Carnage also has 10% increased damge TAKEN (and 40% more done) i guess....

[Roland]

I run in a 2/3 man group for the majority of play, I use a very decked out aurabot with some insane defences. At highly juiced T16 ultimatums one shots can and do happen obviously however after the first week I can't remember the ultimatums being overly difficult in low tier maps.

I would suggest constant movement and good flask uptime whilst applying damage should more often then not carry you through. If you stand still, the amount of rare mobs will pile up in one spot and they will buff each other ... All they need then is for a few instakill modifiers to be present such as "substantial extra damage" or "increased critical chance and damage" etc etc.

Other problems like the mobs that create an elemental beam between each other are nasty on trial start or the cold / lightning totems can become horrible if left up to long. Honestly, go full DPS and kill it before it ever gets a chance to get near you.

[MasterKroket]

I was doing most of em easily till like lvl40-50 it started getting harder later on probably cause they dont have that many of those modifiers yet i guess..

[MasterKroket]

Ha yeah suddenly i am doing much better again in these Trialmaster things. They are still more dangerous than the regular fights but i die way less often and win most encounters now again.