Best Arc archetype starter build?

[Deadbubble]

Self cast, Totem, Mine, Trap?

I'm almost certain Self cast is not one of them, but I have no idea how the other 3 stack up against each other.

[Agenta]

From what I've seen, Self Cast or Arc Trap. I've never seen an Arc-Totem or an Arc-Mine build.

Arc-Traps were slightly nerfed when Delve came out, but are still COMPLETELY viable.

Self-Cast Arc is the most popular build based on https://www.poebuilds.cc/ . At least in the Delve League.

See this forum post for the self-cast build guide. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1147951

[Grumpy]

mines are stronger than traps, but traps are in most cases more comfortable to play (like always)

selfcast is imo the weakest one. totems are strong too, but imo traps offer faster map clear, therefore I would say

self cast > totems > traps / mines (depending if you like the mine playstyle)

[Agenta]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

mines are stronger than traps, but traps are in most cases more comfortable to play (like always)

selfcast is imo the weakest one. totems are good, but imo traps offer faster map clear, therefore I would say

self cast > totems > traps / mines (depending if you like the mine playstyle)

Hm. Weird. I wonder why Enki's Arc Witch is so popular then.

[Grumpy]

its the most popular arc self cast build guide out there. but this dont tell if the build itself is better against the other versions.

not to mention that enkis build is 4 years old. the most viewed totem build[www.pathofexile.com] is created in march 2018 but has 900k views. so it tells nothing how good a build in comparison is, just how good the guide is.

@OP
I would also add poets pen arc to your list https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2123293 and would put it in my order at the top because bossing really good, and map clear is insane

[Agenta]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

its the most popular arc self cast build guide out there. but this dont tell if the build itself is better against the other versions.

not to mention that enkis build is 4 years old. the most viewed totem build[www.pathofexile.com] is created in march 2018 but has 900k views. so it tells nothing how good a build in comparison is, just how good the guide is.

@OP
I would also add poets pen arc to your list https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2123293 and would put it in my order at the top because bossing really good, and map clear is insane

Based on PoE.Builds (Which is a mostly valid source based on what I've read), Enki's Arc Witch wasn't just the most popular Self-Cast Arc character, it was the single most popular build for the Delve League. The only thing that was behind it was DirtyDot's Tri-Herald BV Elementalist, and Rhah's RF Juggernaut.

Self-Cast Arc, based on what I hear, has the benefit of more support gems (due to not requiring the trap/mine/totem-conversion support gems), easier access to scaling from gear and passives,
and, most importantly, access to the insane Beacon of Ruin Shock from the Elementalist (And the Elemental Reflect immunity from another passive, which Enki's build also uses). Their negative is, of course, being forced to self-cast. So you need to worry about positioning and range more often.

Arc-Traps somewhat flip the positives/negatives of Self-Cast Arc, except for the Ele-Reflect immunity, which traps still have. Arc-Traps can also heavily abuse the insane damage/utility from stuff like Tinkerskin or the Saboteur Ascendancy.

The other thing is bosses-vs-mapping. Traps are WAY better during bosses, while self-cast is easier to use during mapping. Traps can still map, obviously, but the playstyle won't be preferred for some, and it can feel odd to play. Self-cast can obviously still boss (Enki has a deathless Uber Elder kill linked in his build gude) but it can be much more expensive gearing wise to get good DPS/survivability without sacrificing something.

Overall, I think both are farely strong league-starters. It's mostly personal preference. (I would probably run self-cast if I wanted to play Arc at all).

[Rinko]

Self-cast arc is just worse, self-casting isn't that great in comparison which is why GGG mentions it in the balance post.

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

mines are stronger than traps, but traps are in most cases more comfortable to play (like always)

selfcast is imo the weakest one. totems are strong too, but imo traps offer faster map clear, therefore I would say

This but I would say totems are faster.

[Agenta]

Publicado originalmente por Rinko:

Self-cast arc is just worse, self-casting isn't that great in comparison which is why GGG mentions it in the balance post.

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

mines are stronger than traps, but traps are in most cases more comfortable to play (like always)

selfcast is imo the weakest one. totems are strong too, but imo traps offer faster map clear, therefore I would say

This but I would say totems are faster.

If Self-Cast Arc is so bad in comparison, why is Enki's Arc Witch more popular the ANY other build in the delve-league based on PoE.builds.

[Grumpy]

Publicado originalmente por Agenta1999:

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

its the most popular arc self cast build guide out there. but this dont tell if the build itself is better against the other versions.

not to mention that enkis build is 4 years old. the most viewed totem build[www.pathofexile.com] is created in march 2018 but has 900k views. so it tells nothing how good a build in comparison is, just how good the guide is.

@OP
I would also add poets pen arc to your list https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2123293 and would put it in my order at the top because bossing really good, and map clear is insane

Based on PoE.Builds (Which is a mostly valid source based on what I've read), Enki's Arc Witch wasn't just the most popular Self-Cast Arc character, it was the single most popular build for the Delve League. The only thing that was behind it was DirtyDot's Tri-Herald BV Elementalist, and Rhah's RF Juggernaut.

build guide popularity still dont tell how it performs in comparison between arc playstyle. thats is the list of the 833 chars between 95 and 100 in Delve SC
https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds?skill=Arc

traps are superior to self cast, even if just slightly

if we look at the 1.119 build in HC delve between 88 and 100
https://poe.ninja/challengehc/builds?skill=Arc

then arc traps and totems dominate by a hugh amount vs selfcast.

Publicado originalmente por Agenta1999:

Self-Cast Arc, based on what I hear, has the benefit of more support gems (due to not requiring the trap/mine/totem-conversion support gems), easier access to scaling from gear and passives,
and, most importantly, access to the insane Beacon of Ruin Shock from the Elementalist (And the Elemental Reflect immunity from another passive, which Enki's build also uses). Their negative is, of course, being forced to self-cast. So you need to worry about positioning and range more often.

so your idea is, that a 6L arc is better than a 5L arc + spell totem support? that makes not much sense to me.

[Rinko]

Publicado originalmente por Agenta1999:

If Self-Cast Arc is so bad in comparison, why is Enki's Arc Witch more popular the ANY other build in the delve-league based on PoE.builds.

It's viable, it's not optimal. Mathil does some wacky builds and the uniques he uses become popular instantly, there's even a meme on reddit about it. Popular doesn't mean it's the best.

Edit: There was also a community race in a private league to 90 in SSFHC that had a lot of the game's top players participate in and I don't think a single one of them used self-cast arc.

[Agenta]

Publicado originalmente por Grumpy:

Publicado originalmente por Agenta1999:

Based on PoE.Builds (Which is a mostly valid source based on what I've read), Enki's Arc Witch wasn't just the most popular Self-Cast Arc character, it was the single most popular build for the Delve League. The only thing that was behind it was DirtyDot's Tri-Herald BV Elementalist, and Rhah's RF Juggernaut.

build guide popularity still dont tell how it performs in comparison between arc playstyle. thats is the list of the 833 chars between 95 and 100 in Delve SC
https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds?skill=Arc

traps are superior to self cast, even if just slightly

if we look at the 1.119 build in HC delve between 88 and 100
https://poe.ninja/challengehc/builds?skill=Arc

then arc traps and totems dominate by a hugh amount vs selfcast.

Publicado originalmente por Agenta1999:

Self-Cast Arc, based on what I hear, has the benefit of more support gems (due to not requiring the trap/mine/totem-conversion support gems), easier access to scaling from gear and passives,
and, most importantly, access to the insane Beacon of Ruin Shock from the Elementalist (And the Elemental Reflect immunity from another passive, which Enki's build also uses). Their negative is, of course, being forced to self-cast. So you need to worry about positioning and range more often.

so your idea is, that a 6L arc is better than a 5L arc + spell totem support? that makes not much sense to me.

I'll go over the second point first, since it's far easier to dispute.

You obviously ignored the rest of the reasons I said. The 5L Arc + Totem support, or the 5L Arc + trap-support (Which actually isn't the case for most Arc-Trap builds I've seen) is the smallest reason I listed. The others are, of course, the following:

Passive scaling: This one is arguable, but very big. Self-Cast Arc has heavier access to survivability nodes due to being less stretched on the passive tree then Arc-Trap. Self-Cast Arc does not need to grab trap-related nodes on the tree; this lets Self-Cast Arc grab more Defense nodes from the tree (Or you can still grab extra offensive nodes). Arc-Trap needs the Trap-Nodes for it to feel at all worth it (And let's face it, the trap/mine damage scaling is the whole reason Arc-Trap is better damage wise then Self-Cast Arc, well that and Arc-Trap can hit bosses multiple times, while Self-Cast Arc, to my knowledge, cannot). Arc Trap can of course mitigate this lost survivability with an active playstyle, but that can apply to any build really.

Beacon of Ruin/Elementalist: The Beacon of Ruin node is the real highlight of any Shock/Lightning based build. It's absolutely insane because of Shock being such a powerful damage modifier. Since Arc-Trap runs Saboteur (and I can guess that Arc Totem runs Heirophant. I have not once seen an Arc-Totem, in all my looking at PoE's official forums, steam forums, and youtube videos) that build does not have access to Beacon of Ruin. You can still swap to Elementalist, but there really is no point as nothing else benefits Arc-Traps, and the Saboteur is such as a HEAVY trap usability buff. This is overall a big damage gain for Self-Cast Arc that Arc-Trap does not have. Even though Arc-Trap doesn't need the damage because of Trap-damage being so insane (Which applies to any trap, not just Arc-Trap. Look at Fire Trap, Lightning Trap, or any other Trap build to realize that).

Overall, it's down to personal preference a lot of the times. Both are vaiable. Both clear the content we want them to clear. Arc-Trap is better for bossing by far, but can be a lot worse in mapping without further investment into trap utility (Like Tinkerskin). Self-Cast Arc is incredible for mapping, and is still fully capable of bossing as well.

As for your first comment. Well duh, Arc Trap was popular last league due to how strong it is damage-wise and how cheap it is to get off the ground. It's still popular this league due to, well, traps still being so powerfu. Also, it's well known that Self-Cast Arc is ♥♥♥♥ in Hardcore cause of melee-range being so lethal in Hardcore. Enki specifically says that in his guide, and I'm guessing much of the masses will trust his word.

Also, I do wonder why Poe.Builds says that Enki's Arc Witch is the most popular build based on the links you posted.

[Agenta]

Publicado originalmente por Rinko:

Publicado originalmente por Agenta1999:

If Self-Cast Arc is so bad in comparison, why is Enki's Arc Witch more popular the ANY other build in the delve-league based on PoE.builds.

It's viable, it's not optimal. Mathil does some wacky builds and the uniques he uses become popular instantly, there's even a meme on reddit about it. Popular doesn't mean it's the best.

Edit: There was also a community race in a private league to 90 in SSFHC that had a lot of the game's top players participate in and I don't think a single one of them used self-cast arc.

Well duh. The Mathil/Streamer effect is a well known thing. It's why Mathil refused to use Shroud of the Lightless during his Abyss-League videos till way later in the league cause the thing was already expensive and he didn't want to raise the price.

Also, based on what I've seen a lot of Mathil's builds are actually really good. Even though many of them are also expensive. And he has WAY more time on his hands to gear them (based on his delve-opinion video he leveled 20-or-something-similar characters to above level 90 during Delve League).

And also, as I said, Self-Cast Arc sucks for Hardcore cause melee-range being lethal in hardcore.

[The Undead Watcher]

Publicado originalmente por Agenta1999:

Also, based on what I've seen a lot of Mathil's builds are actually really good. Even though many of them are also expensive. And he has WAY more time on his hands to gear them (based on his delve-opinion video he leveled 20-or-something-similar characters to above level 90 during Delve League).

Care to link that self cast Build? I tried to search for it, but all i get is Arc Totem Builds.

So until then @OP, Arc totem it is.

[Agenta]

Publicado originalmente por The Undead Watcher:

Publicado originalmente por Agenta1999:

Also, based on what I've seen a lot of Mathil's builds are actually really good. Even though many of them are also expensive. And he has WAY more time on his hands to gear them (based on his delve-opinion video he leveled 20-or-something-similar characters to above level 90 during Delve League).

Care to link that self cast Build? I tried to search for it, but all i get is Arc Totem Builds.

So until then @OP, Arc totem it is.

If you mean the Self-Cast Arc build I'm talking about, it's Enki's Arc Elementalist.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1147951

[The Undead Watcher]

Publicado originalmente por Agenta1999:

Publicado originalmente por The Undead Watcher:

Care to link that self cast Build? I tried to search for it, but all i get is Arc Totem Builds.

So until then @OP, Arc totem it is.

If you mean the Self-Cast Arc build I'm talking about, it's Enki's Arc Elementalist.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1147951

Ahh, thank you

[Agenta]

(Continuing previous post)
Uber Elder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0HCUXjDiGU&feature=youtu.be
T16 Elder-Orb Map (Double Beyond, 4 Sextants): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRKIwFCuQRA&feature=youtu.be
Shaper, and Shaper's Guardians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3QoQrxOY5k&feature=youtu.be