Syndicate are still too strong.

[Spoon]

The nerf to synicate has done nothing. I still get 1shot with all my flasks up with 6k life.

This content is not fun please fix it.

[NixBoxDone]

Pogo lähetti viestin:

The nerf to synicate has done nothing. I still get 1shot with all my flasks up with 6k life.

This content is not fun please fix it.

The problem here is that different people play the syndicate content at different levels with different builds.

There's just no way to make the syndicate fights challenging for the best people with the most expensive, well-optimized builds and leave them solvable for the rest, just as there's no way to make the fights winnable for beginners in mediocre builds and still have them be challenging for the previous group.

All in all I'd say the fights seem pretty okay as long as you do two things:

1. Identify which syndicate members are poison for your build (melee guy getting wreckt by the melee syndicate brawlers, for example) and push them into a branch you don't wanna tackle and/or try to keep them expelled from the syndicate.

2. Regularly choose options to purge items from syndicate branches you wanna farm so they're not running around with disgustingly overpowered buffs. That damn regen item is just filthy. :D

That and just skip syndicate encounters that are in terrain that doesn't favour you so you're not confined to a tiny arena if your build works around movement or in a huge arena vs. dangerous ranged characters that teleport when your build is slow.

[tr1ckyf1sh]

So the items/uniques that the members have, do they have a chance to drop those at any point (i.e. the branch hideouts), or is that just the items that they are currently wearing?

[BlackRock Saber]

I think they already know the Syndicates are OP. i already know this cause if Korell be blasting me in oneshots at Map tier 1,2,3 and i can melt the area in 2 secs and no my gear isnt crap.The Syndicates are overtuned quite a bit. just give them time to nerf them. We still got plenty of league months.

[NixBoxDone]

tr1ckyf1sh lähetti viestin:

So the items/uniques that the members have, do they have a chance to drop those at any point (i.e. the branch hideouts), or is that just the items that they are currently wearing?

Afaik they are only additional difficulty modifiers on the syndicate members - I haven't heard anything about them being a drop for the member when killed/bargained with/encountered in the hideout.

[Grumpy]

BlackRock Saber lähetti viestin:

I think they already know the Syndicates are OP. i already know this cause if Korell be blasting me in oneshots at Map tier 1,2,3 and i can melt the area in 2 secs and no my gear isnt crap.The Syndicates are overtuned quite a bit. just give them time to nerf them. We still got plenty of league months.

if you get blasted in t1 maps then your build is defense wise not the best

[tr1ckyf1sh]

NixBoxDone lähetti viestin:

tr1ckyf1sh lähetti viestin:

So the items/uniques that the members have, do they have a chance to drop those at any point (i.e. the branch hideouts), or is that just the items that they are currently wearing?

Afaik they are only additional difficulty modifiers on the syndicate members - I haven't heard anything about them being a drop for the member when killed/bargained with/encountered in the hideout.

Yeah, thats kind of what I figured, but wasn't sure. Is there any reason to let them keep their items they have, do they effect drops in any fashion, or is it just better to keep them with as little items as possible. Probably could have started a new thread for this.....

[NixBoxDone]

tr1ckyf1sh lähetti viestin:

NixBoxDone lähetti viestin:

Afaik they are only additional difficulty modifiers on the syndicate members - I haven't heard anything about them being a drop for the member when killed/bargained with/encountered in the hideout.

Yeah, thats kind of what I figured, but wasn't sure. Is there any reason to let them keep their items they have, do they effect drops in any fashion, or is it just better to keep them with as little items as possible. Probably could have started a new thread for this.....

I tend to remove the items whenever I can - haven't seen anyone say they affect drops in any way so I figure it's just something to manage.

[Abuzigahl]

The Syndicate is bs. They hit way harder the ANY of the ENDgame bosses xD thats a joke. i can take tham but these endless summonings and the archer with that crazy shot are just insane. And the sweetest is when you try to level them because you want some nice hideout rewards then they gang up on you in a random map and then easily vaporize you.
I hit atziri, shaper, guardians but these guys hitting not like just a truck more like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ truck on an ship wich is flying on a meteor from above. xD Way to much damage and way to much defense. I like tough encounters but these guys have more of erverything in a t13 map then shaper.

[Deadman]

I think the syndicate members themselves are okay now after the nerf. The problem I have is with high tier fortifications and the minions they summon. Those things are far tougher than any syndicate member and they seem to have a larger health pool than the map bosses.

[HoneyDrake]

Brown_Town86 lähetti viestin:

I LITERALLY haven't died once by them since the nerf. Not once. They weren't even that bad to begin with if you ran with an Amethyst flask. It was nice actually having a sense of danger in this game.

This.

Pretty much enjoying going out my way to do them for some good safehouses

[Abuzigahl]

"i didnt die ...gigigig blabla..." THIS..is ...wtf. But hey all is fine let them burn. kill the plebs. its our game. only for the pros...rly guys? the syndicate have too much hp in some cases and the damage output is far higher then the most bosses of the game.

[NixBoxDone]

Jesus dude. So it's fine to make the game boring instead? As already discussed in this thread, the idea isn't for you to be able to murderize every single syndicate member regardless of items or mission, always. Much as many of the end-game bosses aren't meant to be solvable with every badly optimized and undergeared build. They're stat and skill checks.

The idea is for you to shuffle the members around to your advantage, make sure the ones you upgrade are ones you can beat and make sure to shuffle them to the right encounter type so you can beat them.

Examples: if your build is weak to the melee brawlers, you'll want to shuffle them to a mission type where dying doesn't prevent you from finishing it. That means you want them in fortification or transport so if they hit you with an ability your build has trouble with, you can just take a portal (you had better have opened a portal) and return to finish it.
You want the weaker members that you have less trouble with to be in intervention or research, where dying means a significant chance (or certainty) of flubbing the encounter. That way you have a higher chance of solving those.

If there's a guy among them that's just flat out unbeatable for your skill type or chosen build, you shuffle them into research and then just SKIP that branch.

If a ranged guy with teleport is your problem, chances are you also want him in fortification because that way you can lure him out of that enclosure. Similarly those guys are usually a bad idea at transportation for minion builds because they tend to stay behind and shoot your golem/totem/zombie while you need to run ahead to actually stop the caravan - which means you likely won't be able to DPS them down in the last few seconds because you'll be busy running back to find them.

If you're having trouble, prioritize making rivalries among the syndicate so other syndicate members will show up to help you and pick options to remove items from them when you have the chance.

Lastly, you can often eliminate the most troublesome members of the syndicate entirely as one of the choices and then just never choose to execute them to rank them up when they show up or keep them on rank 1 and continue to interrogate/bargain/betray instead.

There's this huge pile of tools for you to control the difficulty of your encounters and a limitless ocean of possible builds to choose from to tackle them, yet you still tell people GGG is throwing you under the bus. At some point you'll simply have to accept that - if you can't beat certain content - maybe it's not for you.

I don't play Darksouls or For Honour because I get panicked when I'm in duels/dangerous fights and tend to flub parries or dodges, which in turn leads to me dying and getting frustrated with the game. But at least I have the commonsense to know that just because I don't enjoy that level of challenge, the game isn't bad or the developers out to troll me. They just made the game for a different audience.

[Grumpy]

NixBoxDone lähetti viestin:

Jesus dude. So it's fine to make the game boring instead? As already discussed in this thread, the idea isn't for you to be able to murderize every single syndicate member regardless of items or mission, always. Much as many of the end-game bosses aren't meant to be solvable with every badly optimized and undergeared build. They're stat and skill checks.

The idea is for you to shuffle the members around to your advantage, make sure the ones you upgrade are ones you can beat and make sure to shuffle them to the right encounter type so you can beat them.

Examples: if your build is weak to the melee brawlers, you'll want to shuffle them to a mission type where dying doesn't prevent you from finishing it. That means you want them in fortification or transport so if they hit you with an ability your build has trouble with, you can just take a portal (you had better have opened a portal) and return to finish it.
You want the weaker members that you have less trouble with to be in intervention or research, where dying means a significant chance (or certainty) of flubbing the encounter. That way you have a higher chance of solving those.

If there's a guy among them that's just flat out unbeatable for your skill type or chosen build, you shuffle them into research and then just SKIP that branch.

If a ranged guy with teleport is your problem, chances are you also want him in fortification because that way you can lure him out of that enclosure. Similarly those guys are usually a bad idea at transportation for minion builds because they tend to stay behind and shoot your golem/totem/zombie while you need to run ahead to actually stop the caravan - which means you likely won't be able to DPS them down in the last few seconds because you'll be busy running back to find them.

If you're having trouble, prioritize making rivalries among the syndicate so other syndicate members will show up to help you and pick options to remove items from them when you have the chance.

Lastly, you can often eliminate the most troublesome members of the syndicate entirely as one of the choices and then just never choose to execute them to rank them up when they show up or keep them on rank 1 and continue to interrogate/bargain/betray instead.

There's this huge pile of tools for you to control the difficulty of your encounters and a limitless ocean of possible builds to choose from to tackle them, yet you still tell people GGG is throwing you under the bus. At some point you'll simply have to accept that - if you can't beat certain content - maybe it's not for you.

I don't play Darksouls or For Honour because I get panicked when I'm in duels/dangerous fights and tend to flub parries or dodges, which in turn leads to me dying and getting frustrated with the game. But at least I have the commonsense to know that just because I don't enjoy that level of challenge, the game isn't bad or the developers out to troll me. They just made the game for a different audience.

the thing is in darksouls or For honour you have one thing you can clearly identify. dont like pvp? dont like parrying and so on.

in betrayal you have 17 masters, each has 3 skills, multitude of items boosting them, then the different mission types together, and perma spawns on fortification which are still BS on high maps + random encounter.

to put this in the darksouls example: give a complete beginner who never heard of darksouls the controller, place him in front of nasty enemies and let him invade by blue, red, yellow guys and give all of them flashy attacks like in PoE. everyone fighting everywhere. and then let the beginner identify learn the ONE attack which killed him and adjust his playstyle according it

it takes quite some time to identify every master what he does in the hectic in some encounters. so its somewhat understandable if casuals are getting annoyed by it, even so there are not that nasty anymore than there were used to be at least below highly buffed red maps.

huge pile of tools yes, but randomized tools. last night I was in the mood to do some encounters on red maps, out of 10 encounters I had 7 where I neither get any good tools nor loot because I got to choose between ♥♥♥♥ and ♥♥♥♥. either sent my high level masters to prison or remove them from the syndicate. great - that felt really rewarding
and in this case I blame GGG because I play by the rules and be either get fcked with no loot or fcked with removing my good masters and get less loot in the safehouses.

[Arngrim]

I dont really have a problem with any of the syndicate masters. They can dish out the damage but so can I and if the map mods are really bad I can avoid most of their stuff.

On fortification though, those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mobs that spawn have so much health and damage it's just stupid.

[NixBoxDone]

Grumpy lähetti viestin:

NixBoxDone lähetti viestin:

Jesus dude. So it's fine to make the game boring instead? As already discussed in this thread, the idea isn't for you to be able to murderize every single syndicate member regardless of items or mission, always. Much as many of the end-game bosses aren't meant to be solvable with every badly optimized and undergeared build. They're stat and skill checks.

The idea is for you to shuffle the members around to your advantage, make sure the ones you upgrade are ones you can beat and make sure to shuffle them to the right encounter type so you can beat them.

Examples: if your build is weak to the melee brawlers, you'll want to shuffle them to a mission type where dying doesn't prevent you from finishing it. That means you want them in fortification or transport so if they hit you with an ability your build has trouble with, you can just take a portal (you had better have opened a portal) and return to finish it.
You want the weaker members that you have less trouble with to be in intervention or research, where dying means a significant chance (or certainty) of flubbing the encounter. That way you have a higher chance of solving those.

If there's a guy among them that's just flat out unbeatable for your skill type or chosen build, you shuffle them into research and then just SKIP that branch.

If a ranged guy with teleport is your problem, chances are you also want him in fortification because that way you can lure him out of that enclosure. Similarly those guys are usually a bad idea at transportation for minion builds because they tend to stay behind and shoot your golem/totem/zombie while you need to run ahead to actually stop the caravan - which means you likely won't be able to DPS them down in the last few seconds because you'll be busy running back to find them.

If you're having trouble, prioritize making rivalries among the syndicate so other syndicate members will show up to help you and pick options to remove items from them when you have the chance.

Lastly, you can often eliminate the most troublesome members of the syndicate entirely as one of the choices and then just never choose to execute them to rank them up when they show up or keep them on rank 1 and continue to interrogate/bargain/betray instead.

There's this huge pile of tools for you to control the difficulty of your encounters and a limitless ocean of possible builds to choose from to tackle them, yet you still tell people GGG is throwing you under the bus. At some point you'll simply have to accept that - if you can't beat certain content - maybe it's not for you.

I don't play Darksouls or For Honour because I get panicked when I'm in duels/dangerous fights and tend to flub parries or dodges, which in turn leads to me dying and getting frustrated with the game. But at least I have the commonsense to know that just because I don't enjoy that level of challenge, the game isn't bad or the developers out to troll me. They just made the game for a different audience.

the thing is in darksouls or For honour you have one thing you can clearly identify. dont like pvp? dont like parrying and so on.

in betrayal you have 17 masters, each has 3 skills, multitude of items boosting them, then the different mission types together, and perma spawns on fortification which are still BS on high maps + random encounter.

to put this in the darksouls example: give a complete beginner who never heard of darksouls the controller, place him in front of nasty enemies and let him invade by blue, red, yellow guys and give all of them flashy attacks like in PoE. everyone fighting everywhere. and then let the beginner identify learn the ONE attack which killed him and adjust his playstyle according it

it takes quite some time to identify every master what he does in the hectic in some encounters. so its somewhat understandable if casuals are getting annoyed by it, even so there are not that nasty anymore than there were used to be at least below highly buffed red maps.

huge pile of tools yes, but randomized tools. last night I was in the mood to do some encounters on red maps, out of 10 encounters I had 7 where I neither get any good tools nor loot because I got to choose between ♥♥♥♥ and ♥♥♥♥. either sent my high level masters to prison or remove them from the syndicate. great - that felt really rewarding
and in this case I blame GGG because I play by the rules and be either get fcked with no loot or fcked with removing my good masters and get less loot in the safehouses.

Yeah, it's difficult. No arguments there. All I'm saying is that there are ways to manage it (worst case you just skip it - I did that with Delve when it turned out to be incredibly janky for multiplayer).

I also have to point out that the rewards for the syndicate are just amazing to make up for it. It's hard content for great rewards. If they lower the difficulty of the content, they'd also have to nix many of the better things you can get out of the content.

As to your point about a new Darksouls guy encountering multiple invaders: that's not really true though, is it? You encounter them on a low level with low difficulty and they get stronger and more numerous as you play and make choices.
That's like introducing invaders to the new player with lowered health and limited abilities to move and/or attack, then slowly scale the invaders up in numbers and abilities until they get multiple invaders during the very end of the game - enemies they can just avoid by running away if they like.

It's absolutely possible to weaken them down to that level again, too, if you messed up. You just run a couple of lower level maps or last act maps and pick interrogate/switch/remove until you are back to a blank canvas, then build it up again.