This game only alive because of Third Party Trade apps.

[[Slayer]]

If it wasn't for poe.trade, trade macro, neversink filters, mercury trade, and all the other apps this game would suck a lot.

I could play SSF, but then Diablo could give better SSF experience.

I wish GGG would create a good system for us to trade in game. No more alt tabbing or doing stuff on my other monitor. Maybe even have offline shopkeeper that you put in section of your hide out that people can browse (can set max currency to 10c or other limit). Would make personalizing a hideout much more meaningful if people are checking out your wares while seeing work you did on your hideout. Or at least have system to record who is interested to buy your stuff. No one really checks on forum account if you message them. Plus, I always whisper to buy something and most people are afk. And sometimes when people whisper me I do invite them quickly and they take 5 min to come. This create much stress.

[Rinko]

Originally posted by Slayer:

If it wasn't for poe.trade, trade macro, neversink filters, mercury trade, and all the other apps this game would suck a lot.

I could play SSF, but then Diablo could give better SSF experience.

I wish GGG would create a good system for us to trade in game. No more alt tabbing or doing stuff on my other monitor. Maybe even have offline shopkeeper that you put in section of your hide out that people can browse (can set max currency to 10c or other limit). Would make personalizing a hideout much more meaningful if people are checking out your wares while seeing work you did on your hideout. Or at least have system to record who is interested to buy your stuff. No one really checks on forum account if you message them. Plus, I always whisper to buy something and most people are afk. And sometimes when people whisper me I do invite them quickly and they take 5 min to come. This create much stress.

I feel ya man, I went to buy groceries this morning and I had to wait a whole six minutes.

I could grow my own food, but then living on a farm would give a better food growing experience.

I wish grocery stores would create a good system for us to shop for food. No more looking through the isles or asking employees for help. Maybe even have employee that you give your grocery list to and he/she can find items I might like (can set max money to 10$ or other limit). Would make personalizing my grocery list much more meaningful if people are checking out my food. Or at least have a system to record my list to see who is interested in growing that food for me. No one really checks the grocery forums if you message them. Plus, I always text farmers to buy something and most people are aff (away from farm).

[Grumpy]

Thumbs up for that nice analogy

[xTao]

this is an ARPG game not a trading simulator

[Nhika]

It's alive because of a good developers :P

[Ken]

Not even gonna bother. In game auction house/trading is never gonna happen. Been discussed extensively and scrapped many many many times over the last 5 years. Not gonna happen.

[Yiasmat]

1. the entire analogy of the first comment fails. this is a game, not real life. do you really think that in the future, when robots control everything, or we have teleportation or when drones are clever enough to deliver you stuff, that you then still have to go out and shop for groceries? no.
but that is simply not possible right now. however, as this is a digital game, GGG has the possibility to easily fix these issues. However, theyve made a concious decision to put the burdon on the player. not because of design limitations, immense cost to implement that system or anything else, just because they dont want to.

2. the argument that this game would be dead without any of the features you mentioned also fails. those features only exist because GGG implemented a system where you could be created for a reasonable expense by a third party. Also: these featrues make the game better, but in no way define it. Take a look at hearthstone for example. Sure the game is better with a deck tracker or the arena helper. Back when i played i couldnt think of me playing the game without them. But strip away those features and hearthstone would be in the same place it is today: a lackluster card game with too much rng and too many bad design choices. but thats off topic.

3. well, i know a lot of people who want such a trade system. but it will never happen. GGG stands strong to many of their in my opinion horrible game design choices and made it clear that even if a lot of the playerbase screams about the issue, they will not change it. if you take a look at the performance of the game, many, many people want there to be options to turn down the skill effects. as it stands, the game is unplayable with more than one person using skills on many machines. their respons was basically: we know of these issues, we want the game to stay in the design of what we have in mind and turning the skilleffects down or even off would go against that, and we find people are already manually tweaking the documents of the game to get a super slight improvement in their fps to the point where it barely makes a difference.
if you look at that statement, they essentially said: we see a lot of people are having issues with the performance of the game, even to the point where they learn to fiddle with the registry and in the games documents just to get a marginal improvement. so they desperatly want to play this game. we hear you all and say: this issue will stay unchanged. sorry for the inconvenience... except that we didnt say that once so... get a job, buy a better pc and come back. pff... casuals...

[Lagwin1980]

No, it's not.... trade might seem like a big part of the game to someone that fools themselves into thinking it is, but the fact is that the majority of players either virtualy never or never trade, to the point they have started doing SSF leagues.

If you want to be showered in junk go play D3.

[Yiasmat]

Originally posted by Lagwin1980:

No, it's not.... trade might seem like a big part of the game to someone that fools themselves into thinking it is, but the fact is that the majority of players either virtualy never or never trade, to the point they have started doing SSF leagues.

If you want to be showered in junk go play D3.

That cant be true. I know 5 friends who play this game each league, and them together with my entire guild ingame i dont know a single person that doesnt buy 90% of their lategame gear from other players.

[[Slayer]]

Originally posted by Rinko:

I feel ya man, I went to buy groceries this morning and I had to wait a whole six minutes.

I could grow my own food, but then living on a farm would give a better food growing experience.

I wish grocery stores would create a good system for us to shop for food. No more looking through the isles or asking employees for help. Maybe even have employee that you give your grocery list to and he/she can find items I might like (can set max money to 10$ or other limit). Would make personalizing my grocery list much more meaningful if people are checking out my food. Or at least have a system to record my list to see who is interested in growing that food for me. No one really checks the grocery forums if you message them. Plus, I always text farmers to buy something and most people are aff (away from farm).

Stores already do this stuff. It's called a clicklist. Or you can order off the site for pickup etc. They can even deliver stuff to your house.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by Yiasmat:

1. the entire analogy of the first comment fails. this is a game, not real life. do you really think that in the future, when robots control everything, or we have teleportation or when drones are clever enough to deliver you stuff, that you then still have to go out and shop for groceries? no.
but that is simply not possible right now. however, as this is a digital game, GGG has the possibility to easily fix these issues. However, theyve made a concious decision to put the burdon on the player. not because of design limitations, immense cost to implement that system or anything else, just because they dont want to.

the argument with robots and teleportation is also not the best

Originally posted by Yiasmat:

2. the argument that this game would be dead without any of the features you mentioned also fails. those features only exist because GGG implemented a system where you could be created for a reasonable expense by a third party. Also: these featrues make the game better, but in no way define it. Take a look at hearthstone for example. Sure the game is better with a deck tracker or the arena helper. Back when i played i couldnt think of me playing the game without them. But strip away those features and hearthstone would be in the same place it is today: a lackluster card game with too much rng and too many bad design choices. but thats off topic.

If you strip away everything which is third party - then have fun trading or playing it all.

we would have..
- no macros
- no trade sites
- (not trade related) but no lab overview

so basically you left with just the trade chat. great. would be probably the same game.. sure

Originally posted by Lagwin1980:

No, it's not.... trade might seem like a big part of the game to someone that fools themselves into thinking it is, but the fact is that the majority of players either virtualy never or never trade, to the point they have started doing SSF leagues.

If you want to be showered in junk go play D3.

you have any numbers that the majority of players dont trade at all?

[^3Tinkles]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

Originally posted by Yiasmat:

1. the entire analogy of the first comment fails. this is a game, not real life. do you really think that in the future, when robots control everything, or we have teleportation or when drones are clever enough to deliver you stuff, that you then still have to go out and shop for groceries? no.
but that is simply not possible right now. however, as this is a digital game, GGG has the possibility to easily fix these issues. However, theyve made a concious decision to put the burdon on the player. not because of design limitations, immense cost to implement that system or anything else, just because they dont want to.

the argument with robots and teleportation is also not the best

Originally posted by Yiasmat:

2. the argument that this game would be dead without any of the features you mentioned also fails. those features only exist because GGG implemented a system where you could be created for a reasonable expense by a third party. Also: these featrues make the game better, but in no way define it. Take a look at hearthstone for example. Sure the game is better with a deck tracker or the arena helper. Back when i played i couldnt think of me playing the game without them. But strip away those features and hearthstone would be in the same place it is today: a lackluster card game with too much rng and too many bad design choices. but thats off topic.

If you strip away everything which is third party - then have fun trading or playing it all.

we would have..
- no macros
- no trade sites
- (not trade related) but no lab overview

so basically you left with just the trade chat. great. would be probably the same game.. sure

Originally posted by Lagwin1980:

No, it's not.... trade might seem like a big part of the game to someone that fools themselves into thinking it is, but the fact is that the majority of players either virtualy never or never trade, to the point they have started doing SSF leagues.

If you want to be showered in junk go play D3.

you have any numbers that the majority of players dont trade at all?

Well PoE in the past year added their own version of Poe.trade, meaning there still would be trading in the same format as poetrade. So trading wouldn't change at all.

[Grumpy]

Originally posted by ^3Tinkles:

Originally posted by Grumpy:

the argument with robots and teleportation is also not the best



If you strip away everything which is third party - then have fun trading or playing it all.

we would have..
- no macros
- no trade sites
- (not trade related) but no lab overview

so basically you left with just the trade chat. great. would be probably the same game.. sure



you have any numbers that the majority of players dont trade at all?

Well PoE in the past year added their own version of Poe.trade, meaning there still would be trading in the same format as poetrade. So trading wouldn't change at all.

Alot of QoL stuff we have nowadays are based of concepts of third party sites or users. If we strip away trade sites, I doubt that their inhouse trade site would be released at all.

I mean just read the trade manifesto, their did not planned to have any trade QoL whatsoever

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870

[^3Tinkles]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

Originally posted by ^3Tinkles:

Well PoE in the past year added their own version of Poe.trade, meaning there still would be trading in the same format as poetrade. So trading wouldn't change at all.

Alot of QoL stuff we have nowadays are based of concepts of third party sites or users. If we strip away trade sites, I doubt that their inhouse trade site would be released at all.

I mean just read the trade manifesto, their did not planned to have any trade QoL whatsoever

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870

Oh I know that and see their reasoning behind it. Trading in a game like PoE is, to them, similar to the Diablo 3 Auction House. Instead of me grinding to get a Xoph's Blood I can just buy it from someone else. For example in incursion right now I bought all the items I need for a golemancer, where on standard it would've cost me 20+ ex, in incursion it cost maybe 1ex, tops. Because of inflation (and greed and whatnot).

So without any work on my part, or RNG to halt me, I have a full build sitting in my stash ready to rollout when it hits standard. That is one thing they are completely against when it comes to trading, no "work" involved. I see that point of view. Which is why I'm against an AH, look at diablo 3 if you want to know why, or other posts I've made on PoE for that matter, too much stuff to go over.

I think a necessary evil is poe.trade, it should be around. It's just a shame so many bots and other players that price fix are about, which is why standard is so cancerous to buy things in. Things are marked x4-x6 + what they're actually valued. If price fixers and bots were dealt with trading would be more fluid and natural.

[Yiasmat]

If 3rd party trade sites didn't exist there is no way poe would have launched their own. They clearly stated that they dislike trading. Then once again many people argued and wanted a trade system.
GGG being GGG just ignored them and so people stepped in to make their own thing happen. And once it grew too big they decided to launch their own.
You may look at it like this, i most certainly do.

People can complain on mass about something, but if they don't do anything to change things, nothing will happen. "Oh my god, youtube is so clearly against content creates. Worst in the world. They should stop" bla bla bla. In the end, they will all watch their videos anyways...

[Yiasmat]

Originally posted by ^3Tinkles:

I think a necessary evil is poe.trade, it should be around. It's just a shame so many bots and other players that price fix are about, which is why standard is so cancerous to buy things in. Things are marked x4-x6 + what they're actually valued. If price fixers and bots were dealt with trading would be more fluid and natural.

I disagree. Now i'm on the side that says "make trading as easy as possible" but i get that some don't want to trade. Look at it like this: let's say you want to play in the upcoming league and you want to go all the way to lategame. How long would it take with the trading system intact as it is to get that gear? I mean it depends on the build, so let's take a normal one like cyclone. Only one semi expensive item and the rest is cheap.

How long do you have to farm to get it? I'd argue around one week if you no life it (which is probably a month for the working person). That is just for one build. Why do they want to substantially increase that time? After all i can always farm some more to improve my build. And the people who don't want to trade have the option not to.

And on a sidenote: the current progression system in lategame (the atlas) relies on trading. I've played 1k hours without trading maps and never unlocked the shapers realm. So for a developer so reluctant about allowing trades in their game, they sure as sh*t design a lot of their content around having this feature. Or having absolutely no life and playing 4 months with 13 hours a day...

EDIT:
On the point of the sidenote, i have to be fair: i brought this up the exact point i made here and a few weeks after that, they doubled dropchances of adjacent maps you didn't complete yet. So maybe they read it, maybe they agreed, maybe they changed it because of their own reasons. Ima go with the last one as i feel with every post that i just get ignored anyways, but in order of fariness i thought i'd mention it here. The atlas system still really sucks in my opinion, but thats off topic.