What is the point? End game feels impossible.

[ahoboman]

Hi, I am fairly new. Well I played way back in late 2013 of Dec to early 2014 Feb. I dropped it since then but now I have returned since the Diablo failed. Upon my return, I was basically a noob. I had a buddy who helped me get back into this game and we grind my characters all the way pass the stories. But now he says once I get here, I am on my own. So he left me with parting advices and tips. For these things called map, were end game contents.

I have only reached up pass T5 maps and now heading into T6's. That is still very early in tier maps as far as I was informed by my mates. I am well aware. I capped out my elemental resist like I was advised to. Invested in past 5k survivability. I have roughly 3800 Health and 1200 ES on my assassin, and roughly 4000 Health and 1000 ES on my Necromancer. I do decent damage and clear the mop maps consistently. I can take on these early bosses and do fine. I invested in good flask such as remove bleeding, poison or any elemental blight that I might come across, and always have them on stand by in my inventory should I need them. I think of every possible scenario and prep for it just in case. Did everything as I was told to by my experienced mates.

But now then all of the sudden, I run into a group of units that would one shot me. Like literally obliterate me in one to two seconds flat. I don't even have time to react and know what the hell just happen. My mate said it was probably a mod that I had on my map that killed me? Such things as reflected damage, crit multipliers, elemental pen, etc. And he says every once in awhile you come across a rare or unique enemies that will one shot if you don't try to dodge them. He especially warn me about syndicate members and man he was not lying. Last night I ran across this Janus dude. There was literally nothing I can do. He obliterate all my minions and just one shot me. My other character I run as an assassin just melts in second.

At this point I am starting to feel like this game is putting me off. What am I even suppose to do? These enemies are stronger then the bosses themselves on the very same map? A lot my death feels really cheap. Like I should of dodge that, or that should have not killed me. Or why did that even do that much damage or why wont this thing die? I even took my buddy advice and wordship the Brine King or whatever so I won't get stun lock to death, but I still manage to die? If its not stun, its probably reflected damage. If its not that, then the mob probably hitting like truck because of extra crit. It just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ man. It is so frustrating! I invested so much into this game. I even buy skins and cosmetic. But I just want to give up right now.

It feels like everything is impossible deal with. Something just keeps getting add on top of something else. And if I don't have protection for that, I will die. How is that even fair or balance? Like why are these minions stronger then the actual boss? It makes no sense! Why is one shot even a thing? I mean sure if it is a boss I get it but come on one mobs? Why am I force to have my tree so heavily invested into health and defense that I it gets so dull and boring. My mate says that if I don't build some what into meta, I won't make it far. Ugh this is even more off putting! Should I just give up? Because my cyclone assassin isn't doing so well, and my necromancer skeleton mages is on her their last limp.

[jamesc70]

I checked your profile to see how many hours you have played, but it doesn't show any games. How many hours?

I'm at 3,000+ and now (finally) I understand the game well enough to make my own builds that can do end game content. At 1,000 hours I was still clueless.

PoE is not like other games where you naturally get stronger or tougher, you have to think about it. You can't just take all damage nodes in the tree and disregard health. You can't just forge ahead thinking you will get some gear upgrades; planning is key.

I usually tell new players to play whatever they want, and THEN follow a build. You are ready to follow a build... because you know how things feel when they aren't working, so you'll see how things work better when someone explains their build and you use it.

Next league in a few days is buffing minions a lot. If you liked minions, look up some streamers ideas for 3.8 starting characters. Should be up in 2 days or so.

[UNCLE STINKFISH]

Streamers are a poisonous plague to the casual and non-casual gamer alike, and to the gaming industry in general..

All they do is research and advertise how to ABUSE a weakness or strong point in a game's mechanics (in exchange for fame/clicks, in/out of game goodies and even cash).. Allowing 1,000's or 10's of 1000's or even MILLIONS of mutant casuals to run rampent and blister though content, destroying much of the actual gaming experience, leaving casual gamer's with a feeling of emptiness and reinforcing the casual-gamer style of abusing a progression system to win. This in turn causes games developers to cater to this method of game play and produce emotionally empty experiences.

As an engineer and a "real gamer" I like to explore a game and (in the case of RPG's that have a good character skill development system) try to build something, if not unique, something that does the job I want it to.

Main source of info coming from in game trial and error and the games own wiki.

If your having problems with Survivability i would say your build sux and you just need to...


GIT GUD...!!!

[Paraakie]

I had builds that were like that before, ultimatly it came down to the fact that I didn't have enough damage and my build just wasn't good enough against certain kinds of content, I'd recommend to look into MOM for more survivabilty and make sure your damage is really good and long range

Make sure to have instant heal flasks as well

[ahoboman]

Jamesc70

I think I roughly put a little over 500 hours into this game in the last two to three months and I am about to give up. I have a buddy who carry me through most of my play through but now I am on my own. Anyways like I mentioned. The game is becoming one way to meta. For my assassin build, I choose to go out my way and not play meta. But it is so strict. I hate the fact that my tree is like 80% invested into defense nodes like health, energy shield mana, mana regen, and the annoying pathing to get to where I need to go. In order for my cyclone to stay relatively large, the pathing to the weapon attack range ate a good portion of my tree. Then I have to invest in AOE for even bigger raduis.

I get the large cyclone like I wanted that almost cover the entire screen but now I lose damage. Aside from the power charges I grab along the way with the assassins node to help boost some dps, there is no room for anything else or I lost the cyclone radius or I lose defense stats. I manage to get good health and ES with my gears thanks to my buddy but even with these gear, it won't save me from one shot. Even with cast when damage iis taken immortal call, max elemental resist, 5k health, three endurance charge, and fortify, I am still dying. Usually in a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fashion that makes me want to rage quit because it is just not fair.

Its like this game won't let me have an assassin with the big cyclone radius because all the life leach and support nodes that is in sync with skill are to from away for me to reach. It is forcing me to to be either a duelist or marauder if I want to play a cyclone build but I want to be as the shadow. I even went for a more easy minion build with the witch and she hangs in there longer because my minions often take the aggro, but when I come across those super mobs or the syndicate members, I'm dead no matter what. It pisses me off so much because I spent good money on skins, pets, and even went as far as buying special effects and portals.

I don't know what it is, but it feels the end game is lazy made with no though put into it. Why do these stupid minions do so much damage? They are harder then the boss! its makes no sense to me! Some time I manage to kill them after dashing around popping flask,using everything I got while smashing my keyboard in hopes this thing dies only to guess what? No kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reward? WTF! I spent the last five death trying to kill this piece of ♥♥♥♥ and I get a scroll of wisdom and some random yellow flingly armor? Are you joking! This thing took five of my portal and this is my reward? Why would they do this is beyond me? I don't know but it can't just be me.

[ahoboman]

STINKFISH

I do not think I am exactly bad. Neither am I like super pro. I understand the game mechanics and played well enough to make this far. And I should not have to be mega pro to enjoy this game? I mean there should be a mode made for those who enjoy getting one shot by random mobs and what not but that should be optional. The game was great is up until the scale in enemy power spike all the sudden shift like 100 folds. Its one thing when a boss one shot me. I can understand because its a boss and usually their moves are telegraphed. I should be careful and watch out to see it coming. If i failed to dodge that then I deserve to die.

But a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ random minion mobs one shot me out no where or with something as basic as auto attack or arrows is just stupid and dumb as ♥♥♥♥! Makes zero logical sense from a game mechanic's point of view, hell even a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ narrative's point of view! I do not feel like I am some ascended badass or anything. and I damn hell for sure do not understand why a random ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ minion is one shotting me all of the sudden rare or not! It should not be in the game? It is just so frustrating that I can not seem to fathom it! What is the point if a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ minion can one shot me? I can only imagine higher tier maps.

[ahoboman]

Paraakie

That is problem I am facing right now. The game forces me to be too meta. I am already forced to invested so much in defense. Like 80% in defense nodes and pathing, and the rest barely squeezing in. Now the game seems to want to force me to out of classes to. If I want to play big radius shadow class cyclone, it is not ideal. I am advised, more like force to go with either the marauder or duelist class. Even the ranger is a better choice. But I refuse because what is the point of having this much options only to never get to use it. It is not meta! ♥♥♥♥ that! Maybe I should just quit because I can't seem to go any further.

[Mindtroverted]

Originally posted by ahoboman:

Its like this game won't let me have an assassin with the big cyclone radius because all the life leach and support nodes that is in sync with skill are to from away for me to reach.

This sentence here is all that I need to demonstrate where you went wrong. Not all skill gems are equally viable with any Ascendancy. When making a build, even if you don't want to use a meta build, you can't just randomly pick an Ascendancy and a skill gem and expect it to work.

The way I do my builds is, I choose an Ascendancy and decide on the type of dmg I'm going to deal, then I look at the skill tree in detail and see which nodes are close enough for me to take them and only then I decide on the skill gem that gives me the most DPS.

I would highly recommend downloading a fan-made tool for build crafting called Path of Building. It makes this whole process a lot easier and you can see the final result without having to grind through the campaign only to realize your build can't clear maps. The tool can highlight nodes which will give you the highest offensive/defensive benefit, it can display your max Life/ES, your DPS with each skill, etc.

If you're already using PoB, then that's fine. Just don't pick whatever combination of Ascendancy and skill you want and expect it to work. Follow this procedure: Choose Ascendancy, Choose dmg type, choose gear, choose skill. Choosing all of these things first will highly influence the final DPS of any given skill. If you start build crafting with a specific skill, you will automatically be forced into taking certain Ascendancies and gear because that's just how it works. It wouldn't actually be satisfying to make a good build if you could combine any skill with any gear and any Ascendancy and make it perform extraordinarily good.

[jessiepeabody]

add me ill play with u

[Unken Grenden]

You absolutely do not have to be play meta in the slightest but you have to play smart and understand the trade-offs you are choosing to build into.

I intuit a sense of entitlement you have where you expect that any random skill coupled with any random ascendancy, with no serious thought of equipment, will somehow allow you to dominate all possible content easily. The game doesn't work like that, nor should it.

[Zelph]

Originally posted by STINKFISH:

Streamers are a poisonous plague to the casual and non-casual gamer alike, and to the gaming industry in general..

All they do is research and advertise how to ABUSE a weakness or strong point in a game's mechanics (in exchange for fame/clicks, in/out of game goodies and even cash).. Allowing 1,000's or 10's of 1000's or even MILLIONS of mutant casuals to run rampent and blister though content, destroying much of the actual gaming experience, leaving casual gamer's with a feeling of emptiness and reinforcing the casual-gamer style of abusing a progression system to win. This in turn causes games developers to cater to this method of game play and produce emotionally empty experiences.

As an engineer and a "real gamer" I like to explore a game and (in the case of RPG's that have a good character skill development system) try to build something, if not unique, something that does the job I want it to.

Main source of info coming from in game trial and error and the games own wiki.

If your having problems with Survivability i would say your build sux and you just need to...


GIT GUD...!!!

This is such crap. Streamers do a lot more then whatever you said. They are entertainment first and foremost. People will ALWAYS find ways to break stuff, with or without streamers.

[+|A.O|+]

Okay, I hear and read all of this.. and I think to myself.

...is this the trash I get to hear from those who really just bought their way through trade and party? (not directed towards op, but others who think they can survive the game and this boi can't)

Back to main topic.

I'm a SSF player (this blocks me from getting carried [i.e. party] and trading). I've not been able to reach the end-game because getting good gear is hard.

However, I've learnt quite a lot in this journey.

I read your points about having good ehp (effective hp = hp + es), having maxed resists.
The problem i see in most builds is, none of these two matter more than the way you make defences.

I've seen 1 hp no es players sail through the game because they have the right defensive layers (which is kinda nerfed now due to immortal call with 0 charges not giving immunity to phys on cast)

You definitely have 1 strong offensive point in your character, you are able to do maps is basically the proof of it.
You lack atleast 1 strong defensive point in your character. Good players usually have 2 or more defensive points.
It's about how you want to mitigate that damage that matters.


Here's some examples:

A ranger with evasion usually also goes dodge or uses blind or decoy totem or one shot from range. This is because they can't get hit. They try to get enough life to probably take a hit, but that is a secondary objective.

A marauder with armor usually goes endurance charges or stun. He may even go reduced damage taken from crits or damage taken regenerated as life, etc. Usually mitigating the damage by reducing via taking it as physical damage or converting it into regen.

A shadow relies on disabling enemies. Blind, ranged attacks, stuns, and usually killing enemies too quickly before they have a chance to getting at you. For them, defence is usually killing too fast and moving out of they way if you can't (also known as hit & run style).

A witch relies on using her abilities to kill from out of reach of the mobs. Be it spells, minions or spells + curses. This is why they usually have minions that taunt on hit or spells that deter enemies when they come too close.

A duelist relies on reducing damage or out-leeching it. Damage reduction of duelist is block/damage reduction (fortify) rather than tanking up. An alternate tactic is to regen so much from attacking that damage you take is effectively nullified very quickly.

A templar relies on damage. Any form of elemental or minion damage is really great for them. These characters do not normally rely on too many defences since they have almost unfair/unmatched damage. Obviously though, they are pretty odd to level with. Their power usually comes from rather crazy ascendency passives than their regular passive tree. Their defence is pure and upfront obliteration of the enemy. They normally don't use a lot of defensive tactics except the trivial maxed resistances and decent armor. Sometimes though, people go degen builds on templar (righteous fire / death's oath) because they also happen to have some of the most broken regen passives from ascendancy too.

A scion usually combines tactics from 2 characters to do her business. It is also the reason why it is able to choose a secondary starting point in passive tree and has more passive points than any other character.


Choose your true path, exile.

[TemjinGold]

OP: I want you to know what I'm about to say is not as a put down but... you are bad at THIS game. This is NOT "you are bad at games" (I certainly don't know you well enough to judge that.)

Here's the thing, a LOT of people are bad at this game because the game is hard. The top content takes a lot of resource investment for certain builds to consistently clear easily. My Legion character had over 50 exa worth of gear. I realize many people will never even have a single piece of equipment worth several exa and yet I still found some of the content to be challenging. But this is how the game keeps a lot of players coming back for more because even with top expensive gear, the content isn't a pushover. But it also means for those people who want to continually figure out what they are doing wrong and what they can do better, there's always something to strive for.

It's also important for you to understand what "meta" means because it doesn't mean what you think it means. Your reference to needing a ton of defenses is not meta. There is a huge difference between a meta build and one that simply is borne out of smart character design.

Being good at this game demands either a lot of time, dedication, and research or experimentation into game mechanics to understand what makes builds good and what makes them not work. Or a ton of natural talent in understanding this. Based on your posts, you do not have the natural talent needed for this game to forgo the former.

If you are the kind of player who is frustrated by challenges and does not wish to learn to overcome them, this game is not for you. There is a wealth of information in both the community and resources online that if you are the kind of player interested in bettering yourself at this game, you will find a lot of enjoyment in it. Otherwise, it is advisable to quit.

[ahoboman]

Mindtroverted

You are not trying to understand where I am coming from. The game itself is a flawless game in terms of game play and mechanics. It is just the way the game won't let me play the way I envisioned it. Like if I pick the Assassin class which assassin are often my favorite in games, I would like to wield daggers. But it is not that viable to use dagger with up front melee skills because they don't provide much ranges, attack speeds and accuracy. They have higher crit proc but that is it. Certain unique give me stuff with poison, AOE and spells but noting melee related.

So if I want to play assassin with daggers, I am stuck with range throwing skills or casting magic. This wouldn't be a problem if my assassin actually uses the dagger in his skills. Throw his weapons or shoot fireball from the daggers or somehting. I don't care, as long as he does anything that utilize the daggers! Instead I am over casting magical fireball from my bare hands and throwing magical knives or traps that has absolutely nothing to do with my weapon? How is this even an assassin? I look more a magical caster or tech dude of some ♥♥♥♥.

On top of this, if I want my character to actually uses the weapon that he carries, I will have to use an actual skills that utilize that. Cyclone a skill I like in almost any games that has their variant. So here I am stuck with a two handed weopon instead because it is the only weapon that provide extra range since daggers are not meant for this skills. I could go VS but then I might as well pick a sword or claw if I want to use that skill, Because they synergize better with VS. FOr daggers I am like stuck range stuff! No such thing as a back stab or sneaky stuff or something?

A lot of this is already frustrating me. Now the one shot mechanics. Me forcing my tree to have so much defense barely any offense. Can't play assassin the way I know, like back stabbing, doing sneaky stuff or hiding in the shadows using their actual weapons and gadgets as secondary. Minions doing more damage than bosses? Killing these tough minions and getting next to nothing rewards? Being force invest a riduclous amount of leveling up in only defense. It is really really off putting man. I hope you understand.

[ahoboman]

[MNI] +|A.O|+

That is the problem. The game forces you to play too much in a particular fashion. Like I mentioned, I want to be an assassin that wields daggers. Yet, there is barely any skills that utilize daggers. Why the hell am I even assassin casting magical fireball or throwing traps and knives? Makes no sense to wield daggers if I doing this. The only two skills I know in the entire game that will make it viable for my Assassin to actually use his daggers are VS and ST. But I might as well go sword or claw since those provide better stats. There needs to be like back stabbing moves or sneaky attack uses the dagger for ♥♥♥♥ sakes!

[ahoboman]

TemjinGold

Meta means the "Most Effective" during or at the moment. Sure if I suck at the game then I will lose no matter what. The problem isn't because I suck, it is because the game is so off putting. It doesn't matter what I build, if I have below 3000 in health or ES combine or not, I won't make it far. No matter how much dodge and evasion, crowd control stun, blind or aliment, or damage I have, their will come a point where their mobs or a boss by pass that period! We both know it is mandatory and meta to have a high pool of health. Now investing in health and defense is one thing but isn't even why the game feels like it does't matter in the end.

It is because I cant build remotely close to the way i would to, literally and figuratively! I am not saying the game prevents me from having all damage nodes or go the path I want to. It is because I am force to play the assassin in a way that doesn't feels like an assassin. I carry daggers but guess what? I don't even use them because I am throwing magical knives or trap instead! I am shooting fireballs out of my bare and casting ice wave by screaming the in air! How the ♥♥♥♥ is this even an assassin? I look more like a mage.

So I might as well go a two handed spinning cyclone Assassin because clearly they want me to build a mage assassin or some ♥♥♥♥. Well guess what? Nah you can't have a spinning cyclone because with that is not the way we want assassin to be and you die in end game content? News flash assassin don't be shooting fire balls and ♥♥♥♥ okay. They are suppose to be using weaponry and doing sneaking stuff. Not the ice hiyah thing okay? I mean the trhowing traps and knives are cool but again nothing to do with the actual hand weopon!